2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

A Doppler on Wheels measured a top wind of 301 mph, but it was about 30 meters above ground, so the true ground speed was likely a little lower. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Oklahoma_tornado_outbreak) The 301 mph is the strongest wind speed ever recorded though.

Any discussion of adding an F6 rating is ridiculous because the Fujita Scale measures damage. Once you get to F5 damage, devastation is nearly total, so there'd be no way to tell the difference between F5 and the mythical F6.

Yes, yes, Mr. Know it all. And that's the reason why they didn't do it. But whether you like it or not, there WAS discussion of adding a sixth category. Also whether you like it or not, the maximum wind speed measured for the largets of those storms was 318. I said 327, but I'm a notorious liar and not the weather guy with all the freaking answers.

I would also suggest if you're going to quote Wikipedia word for word you let us know or perhaps use quotation marks.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

Any discussion of adding an F6 rating is ridiculous because the Fujita Scale measures damage. Once you get to F5 damage, devastation is nearly total, so there'd be no way to tell the difference between F5 and the mythical F6.

Have you run this theory past Bill Paxton? He is the only tornado expert I trust in arguments like this.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

The main point in all of this isn't "what's the strongest EVER!?!?!?!!?!" or subdividing the Fujita scale into "devastating" and "super devastating" categories of damage; it's to make sure you are aware of what's going on by staying plugged into media outlets wherever you are and if that's not possible to at least know the forecast / be aware of the approach of bad weather. In this day and age with the technology we have and the accuracy of Doppler radar and significant warning lead times, there is no excuse for people to be caught off guard anymore.

As far as safe rooms go, they can be added to existing houses - they don't have to go in at the time of construction. However, they do cost a few thousand bucks, so cost is certainly an issue for some. Then again, if I lived in tornado alley, I'd say getting one would be a very high priority if I didn't have a basement.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

Have you run this theory past Bill Paxton? He is the only tornado expert I trust in arguments like this.

Last time I heard, he was diving on the Titanic looking for a big a*s diamond.

 

[SteveP]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

Well, unless you were in Houston, you wouldn't have any idea how the local media were reporting on its track. And in 1980, that's about all we had. The message was: "honking big storm that could wind up hitting us."

Rita was another example of over-hyping. We flew into Houston in time to cover the evacuation (talk about a cluster #*&@) that wound up killing more people than the storm. Houston was a ghost town but the storm hit to the east and barely touched the metro area.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

Rita was another example of over-hyping. We flew into Houston in time to cover the evacuation (talk about a cluster #*&@) that wound up killing more people than the storm. Houston was a ghost town but the storm hit to the east and barely touched the metro area.

Yes. And Rita showed how unprepared Texas was as compared to Florida where they stockpile gasoline and have a program for designated stations to have generators so they can pump the stuff. In Houston, I-45 north was bumper to bumper for miles and miles. For all I know there are still some people in heavy traffic trying to get out of town. Folks were running out of gas all over the place. I'm hoping things are better now.

 

[mookie1995]

Have you run this theory past Bill Paxton? He is the only tornado expert I trust in arguments like this.

"have another drink..."

 

[Bakunin]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

Rita was another example of over-hyping. We flew into Houston in time to cover the evacuation (talk about a cluster #*&@) that wound up killing more people than the storm. Houston was a ghost town but the storm hit to the east and barely touched the metro area.

To be fair to the national weather service, track and intensity are very difficult to predict 4-5 days out. Remember how they told the people of New Orleans to basically get the **** out days ahead of Katrina? I sure did. The forecast discussions were some of the most dire language I've ever seen their forecasters use, and these aren't the media hype machine people, either - they are professional government meteorologists. They were dead-on with that storm, and still thousands died. While everybody was b*tching about the sluggish FEMA response, I don't recall much if any heaping of praise on the NWS who did a great job forecasting that storm; so they are ****ed if they do, and ****ed if they don't.

Having to move hundreds of thousands of people out of the way of a storm is no easy task, and it's not something they take lightly. As far as people dying in an evacuation, all I can say to that is "**** happens". The NWS does the best it can with the tools it has available. Generally speaking, they do a great job, and it's not like it's their fault so many chose to live in areas vulnerable to these massive storms, nor is it their fault that some locales produce such cluster****s in trying to move people away from the coasts / into shelters.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

To be fair to the national weather service, track and intensity are very difficult to predict 4-5 days out. Remember how they told the people of New Orleans to basically get the **** out days ahead of Katrina? I sure did. The forecast discussions were some of the most dire language I've ever seen their forecasters use, and these aren't the media hype machine people, either - they are professional government meteorologists. They were dead-on with that storm, and still thousands died. While everybody was b*tching about the sluggish FEMA response, I don't recall much if any heaping of praise on the NWS who did a great job forecasting that storm; so they are ****ed if they do, and ****ed if they don't.

Having to move hundreds of thousands of people out of the way of a storm is no easy task, and it's not something they take lightly. As far as people dying in an evacuation, all I can say to that is "**** happens". The NWS does the best it can with the tools it has available. Generally speaking, they do a great job, and it's not like it's their fault so many chose to live in areas vulnerable to these massive storms, nor is it their fault that some locales produce such cluster****s in trying to move people away from the coasts / into shelters.

And to be fair, the real disaster of Katrina was the failure of the levees and nobody could have predicted that. Especially given the billions of dollars of taxpayer money that got flushed into the sewer known as Louisiana politics. And the assurances of the Corps of Engineers.

The problem with Rita was not that the storm missed Houston but that the state of Texas evidently had no plan whatsoever to deal with a mass evacuation. They apparantly hadn't given it a thought. And that FEMA business has to be considered in the context of politics. After "Andrew" did such devastation to south Florida it became an issue as between Bush I and Clinton about the speed of Fema's response. Well, with infrastructure just totally gone in some places, whether FEMA gets here today or tomorrow really doesn't matter. What's important is the water, food and shelter. In OKC there were Salvation Army canteens in the neighborhoods, passing out drinks and sandwiches. Filling out FEMA forms can come a little later with no harm to anyone.

Some adjuster visited an OKC couple to assess their loss (total) and kidded about not including any valuable paintings or something in their inventory. They were offended and called the office of the insurance commissioner. And he announced that night (I was there) that that adjuster had been put on a plane and sent home. They were a little touchy.

 

[SteveP]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

To be fair to the national weather service, track and intensity are very difficult to predict 4-5 days out. Remember how they told the people of New Orleans to basically get the **** out days ahead of Katrina? I sure did. The forecast discussions were some of the most dire language I've ever seen their forecasters use, and these aren't the media hype machine people, either - they are professional government meteorologists. They were dead-on with that storm, and still thousands died. While everybody was b*tching about the sluggish FEMA response, I don't recall much if any heaping of praise on the NWS who did a great job forecasting that storm; so they are ****ed if they do, and ****ed if they don't.

We were talking about the impact on NOLA while Katrina was still hitting South Fla. I vividly remember filing a report from the shoulder of I-10 in Miss. and thinking - where are the buses? Well, we know where, don't we?

Having to move hundreds of thousands of people out of the way of a storm is no easy task, and it's not something they take lightly. As far as people dying in an evacuation, all I can say to that is "**** happens". The NWS does the best it can with the tools it has available. Generally speaking, they do a great job, and it's not like it's their fault so many chose to live in areas vulnerable to these massive storms, nor is it their fault that some locales produce such cluster****s in trying to move people away from the coasts / into shelters.

From what I saw - everyone was trying to get out of Houston on I-45. As I reported, some people were in their cars for about 36 hours. I agree that s#*t happens during a major evacuation. At least most of the people in the Houston area heeded the advice, unlike those in the lower parishes who expected the various levels of government to look after them.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

We were talking about the impact on NOLA while Katrina was still hitting South Fla. I vividly remember filing a report from the shoulder of I-10 in Miss. and thinking - where are the buses? Well, we know where, don't we?



From what I saw - everyone was trying to get out of Houston on I-45. As I reported, some people were in their cars for about 36 hours. I agree that s#*t happens during a major evacuation. At least most of the people in the Houston area heeded the advice, unlike those in the lower parishes who expected the various levels of government to look after them.

Houston and Harris county really stepped up bigtime after Katrina. Turning the Astrodome into way more than a shelter. It became a center for government and NGO's, where the evacuees could get just about any service they needed. Thousands of those folks are now permanent Houston residents: lower crime, better schools, more economic opportunities. As I say, Houston really stepped up. And it still cheeses me off that some comedian (don't remember who, but you'd recognize him) complained that the buses that brought those folks to Houston weren't air conditioned. Really? Is that the number one concern with thousands of deaths, cops running away from town and almost total chaos? Air conditioning? He was being interviewed in the dome and his number one concern was air conditioning in the freaking buses. Well, anybody would prefer air conditioning of course. But given the circumstances he might have found a moment or two to praise Houston's unprecedented efforts on behalf of those unfortunate people.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

Ocean City, here we go!

My daughter's college on the Eastern Shore has closed all its dorms for the weekend, so essentially they've evacuated. I'm just glad she'll be home since even if there was no danger my wife would be going bonkers.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

My daughter's college on the Eastern Shore has closed all its dorms for the weekend, so essentially they've evacuated. I'm just glad she'll be home since even if there was no danger my wife would be going bonkers.

If it looks like she's heading your way, remember: batteries, flashlights, radios, water, food and top off your tank. And if the winds look like they're going to pick up, secure the lawn furniture and garbage cans. I remember the look on the face of a new guy in Houston who evidently thought taping his windows meant they wouldn't break. No. Taping the windows is designed to prevent shards of glass from flying around your living room at 150 miles an hour. He turned green. Here's hoping she turns out to sea. In any case. Hunker down, you'll be okay.

After a very long day on the air with Alicia (83?) where the eye seemed to pass right over my head. I mean, there was an actual temporary stoppage of the winds, I headed home expecting the worst. Trees down all over the place in my neighborhood, tens of thousands of people without power. I got home and had power, telephone and cable. What hurricane?

 

[joecct]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

DC had its dry run on evacuating on Tuesday with the earthquake.

Epic Fail.

 

[Patman]

DC had its dry run on evacuating on Tuesday with the earthquake.

Epic Fail.

DC evacuating is a different animal... With the earthquake you have a moments notice... With a hurricane there is some lead time and you are somewhat inland... My plan is to get groceries tonight... I just bought some batteries... Opted not to buy the lantern but I do have a good maglite which can illuminate a room... (i was Hyattsville discussing a project w my former boss... Across from the mall of pg county). My laptop will act as a phone charger... And I'll get things away from the windows as forecast dictates but it looks like I'll be on the west side of the storm and facing South.

 

[ScottK]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

Yes, yes, Mr. Know it all. And that's the reason why they didn't do it. But whether you like it or not, there WAS discussion of adding a sixth category. Also whether you like it or not, the maximum wind speed measured for the largets of those storms was 318. I said 327, but I'm a notorious liar and not the weather guy with all the freaking answers.

I would also suggest if you're going to quote Wikipedia word for word you let us know or perhaps use quotation marks.

A. I didn't quote it word for word - I paraphrased, and then provided the link.
B. The Doppler on Wheels Project themselves claim it to be 301 mph (+/- 20 mph) Link: http://www.cswr.org/dow/
C. The discussion was only among the media. The NWS shot it down very quickly. Link: http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/?n=events-19990503-may3faqs

 

[joecct]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

DC evacuating is a different animal... With the earthquake you have a moments notice... With a hurricane there is some lead time and you are somewhat inland... My plan is to get groceries tonight... I just bought some batteries... Opted not to buy the lantern but I do have a good maglite which can illuminate a room... (i was Hyattsville discussing a project w my former boss... Across from the mall of pg county). My laptop will act as a phone charger... And I'll get things away from the windows as forecast dictates but it looks like I'll be on the west side of the storm and facing South.

White buildings off Belcrest Road? Used to work there for USDA before we moved to Beltsville.

 

[Patman]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

White buildings off Belcrest Road? Used to work there for USDA before we moved to Beltsville.

In the same area... Toledo Road in this case... my former boss made reference to the "white towers"... apparently that whole area is bankrupt or something... he was saying that his agency will have to move in a year and a half 'cause there's no owner to bid for the contract. Too bad, nice building.

edit: scott, how serious should I take the whole "3-5 days of food and water" stuff... I plan on getting some non-perishables (peanut butter, nuts, etc.) but i'm not sure I really want to have that much on hand. I'm also thinking about rounding up a bunch of containers, freezing them now, and throwing them in the fridge if/when the time comes.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

A. I didn't quote it word for word - I paraphrased, and then provided the link.
B. The Doppler on Wheels Project themselves claim it to be 301 mph (+/- 20 mph) Link: http://www.cswr.org/dow/
C. The discussion was only among the media. The NWS shot it down very quickly. Link: http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/?n=events-19990503-may3faqs

Mr. Know it all. So what?

 

[joecct]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

In the same area... Toledo Road in this case... my former boss made reference to the "white towers"... apparently that whole area is bankrupt or something... he was saying that his agency will have to move in a year and a half 'cause there's no owner to bid for the contract. Too bad, nice building.

edit: scott, how serious should I take the whole "3-5 days of food and water" stuff... I plan on getting some non-perishables (peanut butter, nuts, etc.) but i'm not sure I really want to have that much on hand. I'm also thinking about rounding up a bunch of containers, freezing them now, and throwing them in the fridge if/when the time comes.

If you have PEPCO, it could be a few hours or a week, depending on the trees that fall down and take out the power lines. Dominion Power (Virginia) has a bit better record of getting people back on line.

Have you thought about renting a small generator to power the fridge? I am.

Edit: Yep the whole office complex is in trouble. I think the builder overexpanded and then the economy went poof!