2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

Agree. After witnessing a super derecho (kind of an inland hurricane, storm rotates and has strong winds and tornados) Im even more gunshy when storms approach than I used to be. Now when storms approach Ive got every weather map up I can and I am following online and tv and prepping myself to get someplace with better shelter before the storm even arrives if I feel it will be neccessary.

The worst of that OKC tornado was in the collar communities of Moore and Del City. It turns out a lot of folks on the AFB ride and their horses were injured, some severely. Horses don't understand duck and cover. Anyway, I was sent to report on a large animal vet who had worked all though the night on these animals. And for me to tell you the horses looked like somebody had taken an axe to them really doesn't convey the extent of their injuries. They looked awful. But they were going to live.

 

[SteveP]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

When Alicia hit Galveston, a reporter friend of mine had taken refuge in the lobby of the Hotel Galvez when the storm drove through the big picture windows like cr*p through a goose. Quite a bit of excitement. The sad irony of Katrina was initially we all thought NO had "dodged a bullet." And in terms of the actual damage from the storm, I suppose it had, but then we began to get those reports about breaches in the levees.

We wound up in an old HoJo's near the Mobile airport. The roof of the place was ripped off by the winds and I happened to be outside the lobby filming some B-roll when the entire facade of the hotel came crashing into the parking lot.

Most people forget that Katrina did some significant damage in South Florida before it headed into the Gulf. We were in Ft. Lauderdale when it made first landfall then headed to Gulfport.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

We wound up in an old HoJo's near the Mobile airport. The roof of the place was ripped off by the winds and I happened to be outside the lobby filming some B-roll when the entire facade of the hotel came crashing into the parking lot.

Most people forget that Katrina did some significant damage in South Florida before it headed into the Gulf. We were in Ft. Lauderdale when it made first landfall then headed to Gulfport.

I was working in Sarasota when Katrina slid by us and continued her track up north. No damage for us. It was a Saturday, IIRC and I was watching Katrina and the LLWS at the same time. Personally, the worst of Katrina for me was when it looked like Fats Domino had been killed. He was missing and nobody had any idea what had happened to him. Turns out he was bunking with LSU quarterback Jamarcus Russell, whose girl friend was a Domino relative or family friend. I mean, this storm took the lives of so many people and caused so much damage, but if it had killed Fats Domino too, well, that would have been too much to bear.

Having the hojo's roof essentially land at your feet must have been exciting. I'm guessing it put you off your feed enough that you didn't even have a clam sandwitch.

 

[ScottK]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

When Alicia hit Galveston, a reporter friend of mine had taken refuge in the lobby of the Hotel Galvez when the storm drove through the big picture windows like cr*p through a goose. Quite a bit of excitement. The sad irony of Katrina was initially we all thought NO had "dodged a bullet." And in terms of the actual damage from the storm, I suppose it had, but then we began to get those reports about breaches in the levees.

The problem with "God's gift to didacticism" is that the point of my harmless little annecdote was going to bed thinking that a gawdawful big hurricane named Allen was going to flatten Houston and waking up to realize the thing changed course and smacked into west Texas. Bad for them, good for us. Whether it hit Corpus or Brownsville is a matter of concern primarily to the people of those communities, but really doesn't figure in the little story I was trying to tell. As it happens, I was working in OKC the first week of May in '99 when that huge tornado hit. Flattened about 5 thousand homes. Killed around 50. The last victim found had taken refuge under an interstate bridge and they found her body about half a mile away. Tornados scare the p*ss out of me, hurricanes not so much.

The thing is, Allen was never really headed for Houston. Once it got to Jamaica, it basically went in a straight line to Brownsville. http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/at19801.asp

Having read some of the advisories that the Hurricane Center put out for Allen, their track never came close to threatening Houston. My profession gets a bad rap already for "over-hyping" storms (mainly the media). People only remember the hype with storms that miss, and then they don't take the next real threat seriously. That's why I was criticizing your "little anecdote". The facts contradict nearly every part of the story you were telling.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

The thing is, Allen was never really headed for Houston. Once it got to Jamaica, it basically went in a straight line to Brownsville. http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/at19801.asp

Having read some of the advisories that the Hurricane Center put out for Allen, their track never came close to threatening Houston. My profession gets a bad rap already for "over-hyping" storms (mainly the media). People only remember the hype with storms that miss, and then they don't take the next real threat seriously. That's why I was criticizing your "little anecdote". The facts contradict nearly every part of the story you were telling.

Well, unless you were in Houston, you wouldn't have any idea how the local media were reporting on its track. And in 1980, that's about all we had. The message was: "honking big storm that could wind up hitting us." I think as far as "over hyping" is concerned, you have to differentiate between federal and local. I mean one Houston TV station actually hired a former head of the hurricane center as its weatherman. His experience and cachet would only count during those few days a year when there was a storm in the neighborhood. After all Dan Rather got his start on the CBS network by going down to Galveston and tying himself to a dock somewhere and reporting live during a hurricane (Camille?). Now everybody does it. Anyway, local TV was overhyping the storm like a brass band.

The "facts" you're referring to, while true, don't relate to the story I told. The people who were wrestling (literally) over parking spaces and bascarts in the Kroger parking lot were doing so without the benefit of your knowledge and hindsight. Thousands of people thought this big storm was going to hurt us. And perception is the same as reality. Thank God it didn't. I think nowdays, with the Weather Channel et al, we would have been cautiously optimistic that Allen was going to give us a break. Remember, that was 30 years ago. Where do we stand in terms of predicting the tracks of these storms today as compared to then? And how many sources of information to average people have now, as compared to then?

I sympathize with the concept of keeping as many people concerned about the path of a hurricane as long as possible. It's not so much a matter of hype as it is erring on the side of caution. In Houston my station ultimately hired a private forecaster to help us keep storms (like Alicia) in perspective. Commercial interests in the gulf are prepared to pull people off their rigs and shut them down but they don't want to unless and until it's imperative. And utilities want to know where they can marshall their crews and supplies. They know that the damage a storm causes in a big metropolitan area like Houston usually won't be evenly spread. They all use private forecasting to help them make those decisions.

So forgive me for confusing Allen and Andrew. But the accecdote I told really isn't related so much to the reality of Allen but his potential to less informed people of the day. And he was a big, honking sob, right?

 

[DrDemento]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

The lowest pressure recorded during Andrew was 922mb - 4th lowest pressure ever measured in the U.S. The top 3 were 892mb (1935 Florida Keys), 909mb (Camille), and 920 mb (Katrina).

Overall, it is the 18th lowest pressure ever recorded in an Atlantic hurricane. It's one of the few that reached peak intensity at landfall.

The highest recorded gusts during Andrew were 177 mph from a residence in Homestead and 164 mph from the National Hurricane Center in Coral Gables.

If I am not mistaken, wasn't that measurement of 164 in Coral Gables just before the measuring device was ripped off the roof and destroyed? Andrew was one of 2 direct hits we went through. We also had Charlie at our home in Port Charlotte Florida. Not as strong as Andrew but also very destructive.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

Tornados scare the p*ss out of me, hurricanes not so much.

With tornadoes there's nothing to do but hope your number doesn't come up. Unless you live in the Alley (and if you do, you're crazy anyway), they are always completely out of the blue (so to speak), on top of you without warning, and then either it eats you or it doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it. One hit a town 6 miles away from us, and the wreckage was a chessboard: one house a hole in the ground, the next one not a leaf out of place. Eerie.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

With tornadoes there's nothing to do but hope your number doesn't come up. Unless you live in the Alley (and if you do, you're crazy anyway), they are always completely out of the blue (so to speak), on top of you without warning, and then either it eats you or it doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it. One hit a town 6 miles away from us, and the wreckage was a chessboard: one house a hole in the ground, the next one not a leaf out of place. Eerie.

As I was doing assignments in Moore and Del City after that big storm in '99 (IIRC 327mph winds, half a mile wide) that's exactly was I encountered over and over again. A couple sitting in front of what used to be their house, now reduced to a door frame with a pile of kindling behind it. While across the street, their neighbor was mowing his lawn, with zero damage to his home. There were places you could do a 360 and not see a home left standing.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

As I was doing assignments in Moore and Del City after that big storm in '99 (IIRC 327mph winds, half a mile wide) that's exactly was I encountered over and over again. A couple sitting in front of what used to be their house, now reduced to a door frame with a pile of kindling behind it. While across the street, their neighbor was mowing his lawn, with zero damage to his home. There were places you could do a 360 and not see a home left standing.

327mph winds? Typo, I'm guessing?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

327mph winds? Typo, I'm guessing?

I wish it were. As I understand it tornados have a 1-5 scale (Fujita) to measure their intensity too. And evidently after this storm there was some serious discussion about adding a 6th category. It didn't happen, but that gives you some idea of the intensity of the storm. I've always thought it was pretty miraculous that the number of dead was around 50. Given the size and power of the storm, it could have been 500.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

I wish it were. As I understand it tornados have a 1-5 scale (Fujita) to measure their intensity too. And evidently after this storm there was some serious discussion about adding a 6th category. It didn't happen, but that gives you some idea of the intensity of the storm. I've always thought it was pretty miraculous that the number of dead was around 50. Given the size and power of the storm, it could have been 500.

I didn't think they could develop wind speeds that high. Crazy.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

I didn't think they could develop wind speeds that high. Crazy.

As I mentioned earlier, the last victim's body was found more than half a mile from where she had taken shelter. There was also dash cam footage of an officer checking out a baby who had been found in a tree. He had her sitting on the hood of his car and he was carefully checking to see if her arms and legs were broken. She was a mess. Wet. Very cranky. But alive, with no serious injuries. She had been literally pulled from the arms of her mother. I'd call that a miracle.

 

[Proud2baLaker]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

I live not far from the path of the infamous Tri-State Tornado. Murphysboro, Illinois is only a few miles from here and it was basically leveled. 613 people died in the state of Illinois and this particular tornado (or possibly series of tornado..no one is really certain) killed almost 700 total and had a path almost a mile wide and 234 miles long across 3 states. 69 total students were killed while at schools including 33 at one school in De Soto Illinois. Tornados are truly remarkable...and frightening.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

Here's that dash cam video. From Grady County. The deputy later said he was in tears when the baby reached out for him.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv-AO_GeKA0

 

[Bakunin]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

on top of you without warning, and then either it eats you or it doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it.

Not quite. The average lead time for a tornado warning is nearly 20 minutes now. Places such as Joplin Missouri had ample warning and there was still a large death toll. The reason is probably tied to a couple things: 1) people are away from TV/Radio and/or don't have cell phone alerts, so they don't get the warnings (another possibility is they get the warnings and ignore them due to the "cry wolf" issue with tornado warning over-issuance), and 2) when a large EF4-5 tornado is bearing down on a populated area, there's a very real possibility of not surviving it even if you take cover in an interior room and protect yourself as best you can from flying debris. In the rare instance of having to face one of these monsters, the only real guarantee of survival is to be below ground or in a very well-reinforced safe room (which if you live in a place where basements cannot be built due to the nature of the soil or a high water table is something that is basically a "must-have" in tornado-prone areas).

 

[ScottK]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

If I am not mistaken, wasn't that measurement of 164 in Coral Gables just before the measuring device was ripped off the roof and destroyed? Andrew was one of 2 direct hits we went through. We also had Charlie at our home in Port Charlotte Florida. Not as strong as Andrew but also very destructive.

Yes, the anemometer at the Hurricane Center hit 164 mph, then it and the Radar were both "removed" from the building by Andrew.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

Ocean City, here we go!

 

[Bakunin]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

I didn't think they could develop wind speeds that high. Crazy.

Per USAToday:

"Q: How about the highest winds measured in a tornado?

A: On May 3, 1999, scientists using a Doppler on Wheels radar measured the fastest wind speed ever recorded, 318 mph, in one of the tornadoes that hit the suburbs of Oklahoma City. Before that, another portable Doppler radar had recorded a 288 mph wind in the Red Rock, Okla., tornado of April 26, 1991."

Info regarding the enhanced Fujita scale: http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/ef-scale.html - if a tornado produces a three-second gust of wind > 166mph, it's an EF4; over 200 mph and it's an EF5. Either of those categories is sufficient to completely destroy most structures. Even things like well-built hospitals will take significant damage. Thankfully, the vast majority of tornadoes are EF-0 or EF-1. Those aren't strong enough to cause many fatalities (except in cars / mobile homes). Once you get into the EF-2 and EF-3 range, that's when the damage becomes significant enough to cause more fatalities in houses.

Interestingly, I've read there is growing debate regarding the NWS recommendation that people abandon cars in the event of a tornado and take cover in a ditch / cover their heads with their hands. With the modern safety features in cars to protect you from higher speed impacts (airbags, etc), there's a very real possibility of being safer by staying in the car (and crouching down to avoid debris flying through the windows).

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

Not quite. The average lead time for a tornado warning is nearly 20 minutes now. Places such as Joplin Missouri had ample warning and there was still a large death toll. The reason is probably tied to a couple things: 1) people are away from TV/Radio and/or don't have cell phone alerts, so they don't get the warnings (another possibility is they get the warnings and ignore them due to the "cry wolf" issue with tornado warning over-issuance), and 2) when a large EF4-5 tornado is bearing down on a populated area, there's a very real possibility of not surviving it even if you take cover in an interior room and protect yourself as best you can from flying debris. In the rare instance of having to face one of these monsters, the only real guarantee of survival is to be below ground or in a very well-reinforced safe room (which if you live in a place where basements cannot be built due to the nature of the soil or a high water table is something that is basically a "must-have" in tornado-prone areas).

With increased warning time, that means you can get into your safe room--if you have one and if you're home. I'm pretty sure that's what kept the death toll down in OKC. I'd never heard of "safe rooms" til I got to OKC. My grandmother had an old fashioned storm celler in Illinois. But nowdays, if you're building a home in a tornado prone area you're building in a safe room. Reinforced concrete. Like a bank vault. Designed to remain standing even if your home if flattened. Like I say, not much good if you're on your way home, but real helpful if you're already there.

 

[ScottK]

Re: 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

I wish it were. As I understand it tornados have a 1-5 scale (Fujita) to measure their intensity too. And evidently after this storm there was some serious discussion about adding a 6th category. It didn't happen, but that gives you some idea of the intensity of the storm. I've always thought it was pretty miraculous that the number of dead was around 50. Given the size and power of the storm, it could have been 500.

A Doppler on Wheels measured a top wind of 301 mph, but it was about 30 meters above ground, so the true ground speed was likely a little lower. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Oklahoma_tornado_outbreak) The 301 mph is the strongest wind speed ever recorded though.

Any discussion of adding an F6 rating is ridiculous because the Fujita Scale measures damage. Once you get to F5 damage, devastation is nearly total, so there'd be no way to tell the difference between F5 and the mythical F6.