Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
I saw Lincoln, but don't recall him offhand.
I saw Lincoln, but don't recall him offhand.
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ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
- Thread starter The Rube
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Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
I highly doubt they went out of their way to flick off a rabid fanbase. 3/4 of the people seeing the movie wouldnt even know that...hell I didnt even know about Luke's kid and I read a ton of the books. Do you honestly think that Disney would make a point to deliberately change something just to point and laugh at the very nerds they plan to bilk for money?
They did it because Star Wars has always been about family in some way or another and the best way to forward the story was to show the next generation who are tied to the older generation. It makes sense that Han and Leia would have a child and they would be force sensitive. When the child was born it makes sense to name him after the man who changed the entire course of their lives Ben Kenobi. (as opposed to two random names with no real value) Nothing more and nothing less...
I know plenty of nerds that are trying to ruin his movie for themselves by nitpicking it to death or getting up in arms because of things like the kids or whatever, and they are such a minuscule group that they matter not. If they believe that Abrams thumped his nose at them that is their issue. The books were never going to be made into movies (though the Thrawn Trilogy and the Jedi Academy Trilogy would have rocked) and it is not the job of a studio or film makers to cater to a small segment of a fandom.
Friggin comic book fans do the same thing...they want every movie or tv show to adhere to the comics to the letter or he style of story they prefer. (then when they do they ***** about that too) Why would Disney or WB or Fox or Sony listen to them...even if every comic fan agreed on all of that (and they dont obviously) even a top seller like Batman sells about 100k issues. Overall probably 250k people read comics in he US...if every one of them walked away from a movie it wouldnt make friggin dent. These movies may mean more to some people, but they arent arthouse flicks they are made for mass appeal.
(I am not accusing yo of any of this btw)
I highly doubt they went out of their way to flick off a rabid fanbase. 3/4 of the people seeing the movie wouldnt even know that...hell I didnt even know about Luke's kid and I read a ton of the books. Do you honestly think that Disney would make a point to deliberately change something just to point and laugh at the very nerds they plan to bilk for money?
They did it because Star Wars has always been about family in some way or another and the best way to forward the story was to show the next generation who are tied to the older generation. It makes sense that Han and Leia would have a child and they would be force sensitive. When the child was born it makes sense to name him after the man who changed the entire course of their lives Ben Kenobi. (as opposed to two random names with no real value) Nothing more and nothing less...
I know plenty of nerds that are trying to ruin his movie for themselves by nitpicking it to death or getting up in arms because of things like the kids or whatever, and they are such a minuscule group that they matter not. If they believe that Abrams thumped his nose at them that is their issue. The books were never going to be made into movies (though the Thrawn Trilogy and the Jedi Academy Trilogy would have rocked) and it is not the job of a studio or film makers to cater to a small segment of a fandom.
Friggin comic book fans do the same thing...they want every movie or tv show to adhere to the comics to the letter or he style of story they prefer. (then when they do they ***** about that too) Why would Disney or WB or Fox or Sony listen to them...even if every comic fan agreed on all of that (and they dont obviously) even a top seller like Batman sells about 100k issues. Overall probably 250k people read comics in he US...if every one of them walked away from a movie it wouldnt make friggin dent. These movies may mean more to some people, but they arent arthouse flicks they are made for mass appeal.
(I am not accusing yo of any of this btw)
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
Harrison Ford is like 70 years old and he looks every bit of it. Having him fight a Jedi would look pathetic and laughable. Having him die in an explosion would be a cop out. Having Ren force choke him or something would have been cheap as well.
Think about it this way...Han had two missions to help destroy the station and to try and save Ren. The second he saw his son he knew he was probably dead either way, best chance of success was to stall him and try and save him. He walked into certain death on the one a billion chance seeing his face would be enough and for a minute it was. That minute probably was enough to get save the Resistance and the New Repubic, not to mention kicked Rey and Finn into overdrive.
Harrison Ford is like 70 years old and he looks every bit of it. Having him fight a Jedi would look pathetic and laughable. Having him die in an explosion would be a cop out. Having Ren force choke him or something would have been cheap as well.
Think about it this way...Han had two missions to help destroy the station and to try and save Ren. The second he saw his son he knew he was probably dead either way, best chance of success was to stall him and try and save him. He walked into certain death on the one a billion chance seeing his face would be enough and for a minute it was. That minute probably was enough to get save the Resistance and the New Repubic, not to mention kicked Rey and Finn into overdrive.
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
No, I got that. I agreed with Disney for wiping away the old books in terms of any canon so that they can tell their stories going forward. Some of those books were down right atrocious. I'd argue that only three of the writers were consistently solid (Timothy Zahn, Michael A. Stackpole and Aaron Allston), and the rest were very much hit-and-miss. Besides that, the whole thing became very messy, as people tried to ascribe to the Force users some very god-like powers that you just don't really see in the movies - the ability to blink out a star in a fit of rage, for instance.
No, I got that. I agreed with Disney for wiping away the old books in terms of any canon so that they can tell their stories going forward. Some of those books were down right atrocious. I'd argue that only three of the writers were consistently solid (Timothy Zahn, Michael A. Stackpole and Aaron Allston), and the rest were very much hit-and-miss. Besides that, the whole thing became very messy, as people tried to ascribe to the Force users some very god-like powers that you just don't really see in the movies - the ability to blink out a star in a fit of rage, for instance.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
Yeah I totally agree...the books are fun for what they are but very few would have made any sense in a movie or even tv show. There were some great characters like Mara Jade and Grand Admiral Thrawn though.
Zahn wrote some awesome books, by far he was the best writer.
Yeah I totally agree...the books are fun for what they are but very few would have made any sense in a movie or even tv show. There were some great characters like Mara Jade and Grand Admiral Thrawn though.
Zahn wrote some awesome books, by far he was the best writer.
Transplanted Tiger Fan
"Let's Roll" - Todd Beamer, 9/11/01
The Old Guy...
The Old Guy...
)... but just who is this guy??
The character is Lor San Tekka, so I did a little 'nerding-around' on that, and found more questions than answers...
First (and least-likely IMO, due to numerous 'holes' and contradictions with other storylines): Jakku was said to be an uninhibited desert plant, until the crash landing of the Star Destroyer(s), where the survivors established a settlement which became the village shown in The Force Awakens (this alone is where many of the 'holes' and contradictions lie). Lor San Tekka was the commander of the Star Destroyer, and original leader of the settlement. He resented the Empire due to the lack of any rescue efforts at the time the Star Destroyer went-down (the Empire was “a little busy” at the time), so he became a rebel sympathizer. He had acquired that chunk of the Skywalker map and had it on-board the Star Destroyer while with the Empire (unknown to the Empire at the time) and after the lack of any rescue efforts, he had the strong desire to secretly get it into the hands of the Rebel Alliance... and the opportunity to do so finally happened many years later.
Again, I have little faith in that one... as I'm sure it can be ripped-to-shreds.
Second, with very-few details on this one... Lor San Tekka is actually Ezra Bridger in-hiding. Ezra was Padawan to Kanan Jarrus, survivor of Order 66.
Perhaps we will find-out more about this character in Rogue One?? We may hear a smidge about him in Episodes VIII and IX as dialogue to tie things together, but if this is an important character to the storyline, he would have to play a more-significant role in a movie with a prior timeline... like Rogue One. I found very-little details on Lor San Tekka in The Clone Wars series (but I didn’t look too hard, either!).
Cheers,
~TTF
The Old Guy...
I had the same curiosity (and the same "THIS IS HAPPENING!!!" limitation to my attentiveness!
)... but just who is this guy??The character is Lor San Tekka, so I did a little 'nerding-around' on that, and found more questions than answers...
First (and least-likely IMO, due to numerous 'holes' and contradictions with other storylines): Jakku was said to be an uninhibited desert plant, until the crash landing of the Star Destroyer(s), where the survivors established a settlement which became the village shown in The Force Awakens (this alone is where many of the 'holes' and contradictions lie). Lor San Tekka was the commander of the Star Destroyer, and original leader of the settlement. He resented the Empire due to the lack of any rescue efforts at the time the Star Destroyer went-down (the Empire was “a little busy” at the time), so he became a rebel sympathizer. He had acquired that chunk of the Skywalker map and had it on-board the Star Destroyer while with the Empire (unknown to the Empire at the time) and after the lack of any rescue efforts, he had the strong desire to secretly get it into the hands of the Rebel Alliance... and the opportunity to do so finally happened many years later.
Again, I have little faith in that one... as I'm sure it can be ripped-to-shreds.
Second, with very-few details on this one... Lor San Tekka is actually Ezra Bridger in-hiding. Ezra was Padawan to Kanan Jarrus, survivor of Order 66.
Perhaps we will find-out more about this character in Rogue One?? We may hear a smidge about him in Episodes VIII and IX as dialogue to tie things together, but if this is an important character to the storyline, he would have to play a more-significant role in a movie with a prior timeline... like Rogue One. I found very-little details on Lor San Tekka in The Clone Wars series (but I didn’t look too hard, either!).
Cheers,
~TTF
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Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
Sooooo...
I wouldn't put in my Top 2 for sure. It was entertaining, but I've seen it before. You have a female Luke (lemme guess the big reveal in VIII is she's his daughter), a black Han Solo, red and white R2D2 and a pedophile looking Darth Vader. Oh and a small resistance force has to blow up a giant weapon so even the plot was the same.
Again it was good and glad we saw it in IMAX, but I'm disappointed.
Sooooo...
I wouldn't put in my Top 2 for sure. It was entertaining, but I've seen it before. You have a female Luke (lemme guess the big reveal in VIII is she's his daughter), a black Han Solo, red and white R2D2 and a pedophile looking Darth Vader. Oh and a small resistance force has to blow up a giant weapon so even the plot was the same.
Again it was good and glad we saw it in IMAX, but I'm disappointed.
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Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
Rey being Luke's daughter is not a big reveal, IMO. That's the most likely scenario. A big reveal would be the Kenobi theory or something. If you look back, sometimes the story DOES take the most obvious turn...
Right now, only Empire (duh) was better. New Hope and Sith are up in the mix, though, along with this one, for me.
Rey being Luke's daughter is not a big reveal, IMO. That's the most likely scenario. A big reveal would be the Kenobi theory or something. If you look back, sometimes the story DOES take the most obvious turn...
Right now, only Empire (duh) was better. New Hope and Sith are up in the mix, though, along with this one, for me.
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: The Old Guy...
Re: The Old Guy...
Since they used Max von Sydow as the actor who played Lor San Takka, it's tough to think of it as a throw-away part. It's certainly possible for them to have used his talent like that, not unprecedented at all for other franchises, just seems like that character must have had more to do than hand over the map.
Re: The Old Guy...
I had the same curiosity (and the same "THIS IS HAPPENING!!!" limitation to my attentiveness!
The character is Lor San Tekka, so I did a little 'nerding-around' on that, and found more questions than answers...
First (and least-likely IMO, due to numerous 'holes' and contradictions with other storylines): Jakku was said to be an uninhibited desert plant, until the crash landing of the Star Destroyer(s), where the survivors established a settlement which became the village shown in The Force Awakens (this alone is where many of the 'holes' and contradictions lie). Lor San Tekka was the commander of the Star Destroyer, and original leader of the settlement. He resented the Empire due to the lack of any rescue efforts at the time the Star Destroyer went-down (the Empire was “a little busy” at the time), so he became a rebel sympathizer. He had acquired that chunk of the Skywalker map and had it on-board the Star Destroyer while with the Empire (unknown to the Empire at the time) and after the lack of any rescue efforts, he had the strong desire to secretly get it into the hands of the Rebel Alliance... and the opportunity to do so finally happened many years later.
Again, I have little faith in that one... as I'm sure it can be ripped-to-shreds.
Second, with very-few details on this one... Lor San Tekka is actually Ezra Bridger in-hiding. Ezra was Padawan to Kanan Jarrus, survivor of Order 66.
Perhaps we will find-out more about this character in Rogue One?? We may hear a smidge about him in Episodes VIII and IX as dialogue to tie things together, but if this is an important character to the storyline, he would have to play a more-significant role in a movie with a prior timeline... like Rogue One. I found very-little details on Lor San Tekka in The Clone Wars series (but I didn’t look too hard, either!).
Cheers,
~TTF
Since they used Max von Sydow as the actor who played Lor San Takka, it's tough to think of it as a throw-away part. It's certainly possible for them to have used his talent like that, not unprecedented at all for other franchises, just seems like that character must have had more to do than hand over the map.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
One big complaint I read is hat this is just a rehashing of ANH...well I wont lie I find Episode 4 rather boring for most of the movie (and whiny Luke is just so...ugh) ad i a never bored in this movie. This movie is a much better telling of that story imho.
One big complaint I read is hat this is just a rehashing of ANH...well I wont lie I find Episode 4 rather boring for most of the movie (and whiny Luke is just so...ugh) ad i a never bored in this movie. This movie is a much better telling of that story imho.
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
Whiny Luke, whiny Anakin in the next set of movies....I agree with you.
Whiny Luke, whiny Anakin in the next set of movies....I agree with you.
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
Ezra is the main character in Star Wars Rebels show. He's an orphan kid that's part of crew on a ship doing missions at the beginning of the Rebellion, with Kanan training him. I guess it could be plausible that he's that character but it's a real long shot to me.I had the same curiosity (and the same "THIS IS HAPPENING!!!" limitation to my attentiveness!
The character is Lor San Tekka, so I did a little 'nerding-around' on that, and found more questions than answers...
First (and least-likely IMO, due to numerous 'holes' and contradictions with other storylines): Jakku was said to be an uninhibited desert plant, until the crash landing of the Star Destroyer(s), where the survivors established a settlement which became the village shown in The Force Awakens (this alone is where many of the 'holes' and contradictions lie). Lor San Tekka was the commander of the Star Destroyer, and original leader of the settlement. He resented the Empire due to the lack of any rescue efforts at the time the Star Destroyer went-down (the Empire was “a little busy” at the time), so he became a rebel sympathizer. He had acquired that chunk of the Skywalker map and had it on-board the Star Destroyer while with the Empire (unknown to the Empire at the time) and after the lack of any rescue efforts, he had the strong desire to secretly get it into the hands of the Rebel Alliance... and the opportunity to do so finally happened many years later.
Again, I have little faith in that one... as I'm sure it can be ripped-to-shreds.
Second, with very-few details on this one... Lor San Tekka is actually Ezra Bridger in-hiding. Ezra was Padawan to Kanan Jarrus, survivor of Order 66.
Perhaps we will find-out more about this character in Rogue One?? We may hear a smidge about him in Episodes VIII and IX as dialogue to tie things together, but if this is an important character to the storyline, he would have to play a more-significant role in a movie with a prior timeline... like Rogue One. I found very-little details on Lor San Tekka in The Clone Wars series (but I didn’t look too hard, either!).
Cheers,
~TTF
Rebels also just introduced Ahsoka Tano, Anakin's apprentice from the Clone Wars series.
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
Ezra would be about the right age for Lor San Tekka. Rebels begins about 10 years prior to A New Hope, Ezra was 15 when the story began, which would make him between Han's and Luke's/Leia's ages.
Rebels has established that a few Jedi escaped Order 66, but that the Emperor has Vader and the newly created Inquisitors (dark side force users who are not technically Sith) hunting down the remaining Jedi and Force-sensitive beings who refuse to join the Empire. I've only seen season one of the show, so I don't know anything of what's happened in season two yet. Since it's a TV show, one began by Disney especially, they hold it as canon in the Star Wars universe, and elements of it could show up in the movies.
Ezra would be about the right age for Lor San Tekka. Rebels begins about 10 years prior to A New Hope, Ezra was 15 when the story began, which would make him between Han's and Luke's/Leia's ages.
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
I've watched Rebels as well, like you I haven't seen much of Season 2, but to me it's been established that Vader and the Inquisitors are seeking to only destroy the remaining Jedi. I know he's the right age and it is plausible but, I just can't see a Jedi Padawan becoming the Captain of a Star Destroyer.
Transplanted Tiger Fan
"Let's Roll" - Todd Beamer, 9/11/01
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
Cheers!!!
~TTF
Ooo, no, no... I put those 'out there' as separate "theories", not necessarily related. My apologies if it came-out that way. And from what you guys are saying, the second "theory" certainly appears to be the better of the two (although there are sure to be more/better possibilities!).
Cheers!!!
~TTF
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
In the very first scene of Rebels, Vader's relaying instructions to the Inquisitor. In that scene, Vader states that the Jedi are to be killed and that their padawans are to be killed or allowed to join them, the same with untrained Force users they find. Since the show would likely respect the Rule of Two as stated by Yoda (which I think is BS based upon the Emperor and Vader trying to convert Luke to make a hateful trio ruling the galaxy), those allowed to live would become more inquisitors, because it sounds like there's more than just the one introduced in the first season.
In the very first scene of Rebels, Vader's relaying instructions to the Inquisitor. In that scene, Vader states that the Jedi are to be killed and that their padawans are to be killed or allowed to join them, the same with untrained Force users they find. Since the show would likely respect the Rule of Two as stated by Yoda (which I think is BS based upon the Emperor and Vader trying to convert Luke to make a hateful trio ruling the galaxy), those allowed to live would become more inquisitors, because it sounds like there's more than just the one introduced in the first season.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
I couldn't wait any longer and went by myself last night and it was amazing. Many here are dead on. JJ found a way to make it feel like an extension of the original trilogy from the limited use of cgi and camera filters to all the callbacks of races and overall the biggest...the way he treated the force itself.
What an amazing movie, I couldn't help but smile the whole movie and will go again.
I couldn't wait any longer and went by myself last night and it was amazing. Many here are dead on. JJ found a way to make it feel like an extension of the original trilogy from the limited use of cgi and camera filters to all the callbacks of races and overall the biggest...the way he treated the force itself.
What an amazing movie, I couldn't help but smile the whole movie and will go again.
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
"That's not how the Force works!"
"That's not how the Force works!"
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
Went this morning at 10 and the theater as well as the multiplex was completely packed.
I liked it... a lot.
Quibbles:
Count me among those who at many instances thought to myself that we've seen all of this before. It's the same story as both IV and VI in terms of killer battle station that can be taken down by a ragtag group by essentially destroying it from within.
Obviously all of the other parallels are easy enough to see and I won't get into them, but I was taken out of the story/movie on several instances thinking that this is the exact same story over again.
Chewy should have grieved more. They had been together 40 or more years.
Things I Loved:
The new characters (and the actors who play them). The chemistry is there and like IV - VI, it's what elevates a movie like this above ones that sputter. It seems that JJ gets this as the Star Trek movies were very strong in this same area. There were some really funny lines and they were delivered well.
Location shooting - It's so noticeable when you compare it to garbage like the Hobbit trilogy and the Prequels. Beautiful on the eyes and made everything more real.
Han Solo - there was a lot more of Solo than I expected and it was a proper sendoff for a movie icon that has become a big part of American pop culture. Seeing him and hearing his wisecracks was like getting back with an old friend. His death was perfect and exactly how it should have happened. I love how as he died, he looked at his son and touched his face and then fell. Perfect.
Nods to the earlier movies. Anybody else catch Finn coming across that little hover globe in the Falcon that Luke sparred against when Ben was teaching him in IV? There were several others (nods) and often in the form of banter. Great stuff.
Overall I really liked it and am excited that they seem to have the franchise back on track.
I'm starting to wonder what JJ would have done with the Hobbit.
Went this morning at 10 and the theater as well as the multiplex was completely packed.
I liked it... a lot.
Quibbles:
Count me among those who at many instances thought to myself that we've seen all of this before. It's the same story as both IV and VI in terms of killer battle station that can be taken down by a ragtag group by essentially destroying it from within.
Obviously all of the other parallels are easy enough to see and I won't get into them, but I was taken out of the story/movie on several instances thinking that this is the exact same story over again.
Chewy should have grieved more. They had been together 40 or more years.
Things I Loved:
The new characters (and the actors who play them). The chemistry is there and like IV - VI, it's what elevates a movie like this above ones that sputter. It seems that JJ gets this as the Star Trek movies were very strong in this same area. There were some really funny lines and they were delivered well.
Location shooting - It's so noticeable when you compare it to garbage like the Hobbit trilogy and the Prequels. Beautiful on the eyes and made everything more real.
Han Solo - there was a lot more of Solo than I expected and it was a proper sendoff for a movie icon that has become a big part of American pop culture. Seeing him and hearing his wisecracks was like getting back with an old friend. His death was perfect and exactly how it should have happened. I love how as he died, he looked at his son and touched his face and then fell. Perfect.
Nods to the earlier movies. Anybody else catch Finn coming across that little hover globe in the Falcon that Luke sparred against when Ben was teaching him in IV? There were several others (nods) and often in the form of banter. Great stuff.
Overall I really liked it and am excited that they seem to have the franchise back on track.
I'm starting to wonder what JJ would have done with the Hobbit.
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