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ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
- Thread starter The Rube
- Start date
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
Watched IV for the first time in quite a few years.
As that's wrapping up, the boy comes down and wants to watch III, which I have been Jonesin to see.
Interesting order to watch those two in and worked quite well.
Will probably do V in the next week or so and call it a day. Don't think I can stomach the first two and watched Muppet Family Christmas tonight (which is an all-time fav btw), so probably have VI covered.
The Revenge of the Sith is quite good. Certainly better than Return and maybe better than IV, at least in execution.
IV is just so clumsy by today's standards. Sure, it's a classic and will always be special to me, but I don't need to see it again anytime soon.
That said... since we're doing rankings...
V - Agree with most everyone else. And who saw the cliff hangers coming!?!
IV - Started it all. Gets this ranking more for its significance than for how good of a movie it is.
VII - Dang, what an entertaining film and a good setup for the next two.
III - Great job of showing the fall and made me wish I could have seen more of the Clone Wars - not the cartoons.
VI - Ewoks suck so hard as does that singing alien in Jabba's palace.
II - A hot mess with too much politics and not enough heart. And a brutal "love" story.
I - Just awful. Waste of Darth Maul and Qui Gon too.
Watched IV for the first time in quite a few years.
As that's wrapping up, the boy comes down and wants to watch III, which I have been Jonesin to see.
Interesting order to watch those two in and worked quite well.
Will probably do V in the next week or so and call it a day. Don't think I can stomach the first two and watched Muppet Family Christmas tonight (which is an all-time fav btw), so probably have VI covered.
The Revenge of the Sith is quite good. Certainly better than Return and maybe better than IV, at least in execution.
IV is just so clumsy by today's standards. Sure, it's a classic and will always be special to me, but I don't need to see it again anytime soon.
That said... since we're doing rankings...
V - Agree with most everyone else. And who saw the cliff hangers coming!?!
IV - Started it all. Gets this ranking more for its significance than for how good of a movie it is.
VII - Dang, what an entertaining film and a good setup for the next two.
III - Great job of showing the fall and made me wish I could have seen more of the Clone Wars - not the cartoons.
VI - Ewoks suck so hard as does that singing alien in Jabba's palace.
II - A hot mess with too much politics and not enough heart. And a brutal "love" story.
I - Just awful. Waste of Darth Maul and Qui Gon too.
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Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
Dr. Mrs. and I were talking about this very thing. We really enjoyed how it returned to the tone and pace of the first.
Dr. Mrs. and I were talking about this very thing. We really enjoyed how it returned to the tone and pace of the first.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
I finally saw it today. Definitely much better than I and II. I didn't bother seeing III after I and II.
I finally saw it today. Definitely much better than I and II. I didn't bother seeing III after I and II.
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
III was actually pretty cool. Best of that trio by far, and IMO better than Jedi.
III was actually pretty cool. Best of that trio by far, and IMO better than Jedi.
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
You should see III.
It's quite good and has a decent amount of humor between Anakin and Kenobi - which is why I'd have liked to have seen more of the Clone Wars that lie chronologically between II and III. Seeing them on missions without the weight of Anakin's love story and the politics could have been quite fun.
Of course I understand that it wouldn't move the main story arc along and that's why they didn't show more, but the Clone Wars are the best part of the first trilogy, imo.
Watched V tonight.
I've ragged on the first trilogy as much as anyone, and while I still carry a great disdain for the execution of it, the later movies (chronologically) carry a lot more weight because the first trilogy exists.
There is so much more detail and so many plot devices are made better by understanding how everyone got to where they are.
Yoda is a deeper character coz we've seen him back at the height of his power and influence - such as it is for a Jedi as opposed to the muppet that he sometimes appears to be in V.
Vader is far, FAR more interesting due to having seen his fall.
Even ghost Kenobi is richer for having seen so much of him across three whole movies - and I must say that McGregor channels Guinness quite well. Watching Guinness, I believe that I am seeing the older version of the Kenobi I saw in I-III.
I could go on and on about the Emperor, Boba Fett, the droids, the evolution of the clones/stormtroopers, ships, etc, etc...
By the same token, having seen VII has the same effect, only in reverse. Watching Han and Leia as they flirt and grow together carries a slight sadness that wasn't there before as you know what they will eventually endure. Same with Luke and his apparent journey from idealistic to apparent failure, etc, etc...
Anyway, I'm enjoying revisiting this galaxy far, far away. I was never really a fan boy, but it's certainly been a part of my life and a part of my son and I's shared experience with I-III.
The boy and I will see VII sometime this weekend as he hasn't seen it yet.
Probably watch VI tomorrow or Saturday.
You should see III.
It's quite good and has a decent amount of humor between Anakin and Kenobi - which is why I'd have liked to have seen more of the Clone Wars that lie chronologically between II and III. Seeing them on missions without the weight of Anakin's love story and the politics could have been quite fun.
Of course I understand that it wouldn't move the main story arc along and that's why they didn't show more, but the Clone Wars are the best part of the first trilogy, imo.
Watched V tonight.
I've ragged on the first trilogy as much as anyone, and while I still carry a great disdain for the execution of it, the later movies (chronologically) carry a lot more weight because the first trilogy exists.
There is so much more detail and so many plot devices are made better by understanding how everyone got to where they are.
Yoda is a deeper character coz we've seen him back at the height of his power and influence - such as it is for a Jedi as opposed to the muppet that he sometimes appears to be in V.
Vader is far, FAR more interesting due to having seen his fall.
Even ghost Kenobi is richer for having seen so much of him across three whole movies - and I must say that McGregor channels Guinness quite well. Watching Guinness, I believe that I am seeing the older version of the Kenobi I saw in I-III.
I could go on and on about the Emperor, Boba Fett, the droids, the evolution of the clones/stormtroopers, ships, etc, etc...
By the same token, having seen VII has the same effect, only in reverse. Watching Han and Leia as they flirt and grow together carries a slight sadness that wasn't there before as you know what they will eventually endure. Same with Luke and his apparent journey from idealistic to apparent failure, etc, etc...
Anyway, I'm enjoying revisiting this galaxy far, far away. I was never really a fan boy, but it's certainly been a part of my life and a part of my son and I's shared experience with I-III.
The boy and I will see VII sometime this weekend as he hasn't seen it yet.
Probably watch VI tomorrow or Saturday.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
I disagree with almost all of that. Vader's fall made him look weak, not like the cool badass who wants to control the galaxy. He was a whiny little man-child who even after the fact didnt realize how bad he got played and just walked around as Palpatine's whipping boy. Anakin's whole story sucked the second he hit puberty and completely undermined everything that was great about Darth Vader. He went from being a dark figure of evil to an emo crybaby who cant handle a broken heart. Hell we only see him kill one Jedi (Mace Windu) and bunch of kids...some badass more like a punk biotch.
And almost everything Yoda did in the prequels was crap. I know everyone thought it was cool to watch him jump around fighting (and in III that was better than in II) but part of what made Yoda awesome was that he DIDNT do those things. His whole speech to Luke in the bog when the X-Wing is sinking is awesome because up until he actually effortlessly moves the X-Wing there is zero evidence that he can. The audience, much like Luke, is judging Yoda by his looks. That moment is now worthless if you dont see it first and really watching Yoda hop around like a monkey on acid fighting Dooku/The Emperor doesnt add anything to it. Hell you never see him really train anyone anyways, just talk a lot and make lots of stupid mistakes.
Obiwon Kenobi? Well lets see we watch him kill Darth Maul with while angry, defy the advice of Yoda, need constant rescuing from Anakin like a second rate damsel in distress, never notice the love affair Anakin has with Padme (despite being like super wise and spending years with Anakin) oh and after their ballet dancing in the lava doesnt kill Anakin which, you know, helps The Emperor rule the galaxy with an even tighter grip. They tried to make Obiwon into Han Solo and he looked terrible. Guiness did more with his few lines of dialogue and one Vader fight than Ewan did with 3 movies of bloated plot and lightsabering. Not to mention, even Ghost Kenobi looks stupid now after the fact because half of what he says seems to make little sense because Lucas had to make everything connect...
Boba Fett went from a bounty hunter (which is all he needed to be) to a whiny clone with daddy issues. Stormtroopers? Just clones of Jengo meaning them dying has no value anyways. The Jedi? Incompetent group of Ivory Tower Know it Alls who make terrible decisions and are blinded by their own arrogance to the point they cant even see basic machinations being made right under their nose. (yet they can feel deaths lightyears away...) Hell they cant even tell Palpatine is Force Sensitive and they deal with him all the time. How friggin dumb are these Jedi?
Revenge of the Sith was the only prequel worth watching but the movie was still weighed down by bloated stories, a love plot that had no purpose and the idiocy of the Jedi. I defended it on here many times because it was handicapped by the first two crappy films. In the theaters I said it was better than ROTJ but I watch Jedi all the time and have never made it through Episode 3 after the fact. Hell I would rather watch the lightsber battle on the Death Star than the 20 minute dance off on the lava moon any day. And seeing Vader cry like a little girl when the Emperor tells him Padme died makes me wish he never existed. Graded on a curve it is good, but compared to the originals it is still best left in the past.
YMMV.
I disagree with almost all of that. Vader's fall made him look weak, not like the cool badass who wants to control the galaxy. He was a whiny little man-child who even after the fact didnt realize how bad he got played and just walked around as Palpatine's whipping boy. Anakin's whole story sucked the second he hit puberty and completely undermined everything that was great about Darth Vader. He went from being a dark figure of evil to an emo crybaby who cant handle a broken heart. Hell we only see him kill one Jedi (Mace Windu) and bunch of kids...some badass more like a punk biotch.
And almost everything Yoda did in the prequels was crap. I know everyone thought it was cool to watch him jump around fighting (and in III that was better than in II) but part of what made Yoda awesome was that he DIDNT do those things. His whole speech to Luke in the bog when the X-Wing is sinking is awesome because up until he actually effortlessly moves the X-Wing there is zero evidence that he can. The audience, much like Luke, is judging Yoda by his looks. That moment is now worthless if you dont see it first and really watching Yoda hop around like a monkey on acid fighting Dooku/The Emperor doesnt add anything to it. Hell you never see him really train anyone anyways, just talk a lot and make lots of stupid mistakes.
Obiwon Kenobi? Well lets see we watch him kill Darth Maul with while angry, defy the advice of Yoda, need constant rescuing from Anakin like a second rate damsel in distress, never notice the love affair Anakin has with Padme (despite being like super wise and spending years with Anakin) oh and after their ballet dancing in the lava doesnt kill Anakin which, you know, helps The Emperor rule the galaxy with an even tighter grip. They tried to make Obiwon into Han Solo and he looked terrible. Guiness did more with his few lines of dialogue and one Vader fight than Ewan did with 3 movies of bloated plot and lightsabering. Not to mention, even Ghost Kenobi looks stupid now after the fact because half of what he says seems to make little sense because Lucas had to make everything connect...
Boba Fett went from a bounty hunter (which is all he needed to be) to a whiny clone with daddy issues. Stormtroopers? Just clones of Jengo meaning them dying has no value anyways. The Jedi? Incompetent group of Ivory Tower Know it Alls who make terrible decisions and are blinded by their own arrogance to the point they cant even see basic machinations being made right under their nose. (yet they can feel deaths lightyears away...) Hell they cant even tell Palpatine is Force Sensitive and they deal with him all the time. How friggin dumb are these Jedi?
Revenge of the Sith was the only prequel worth watching but the movie was still weighed down by bloated stories, a love plot that had no purpose and the idiocy of the Jedi. I defended it on here many times because it was handicapped by the first two crappy films. In the theaters I said it was better than ROTJ but I watch Jedi all the time and have never made it through Episode 3 after the fact. Hell I would rather watch the lightsber battle on the Death Star than the 20 minute dance off on the lava moon any day. And seeing Vader cry like a little girl when the Emperor tells him Padme died makes me wish he never existed. Graded on a curve it is good, but compared to the originals it is still best left in the past.
YMMV.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
Vader going, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!" at the end of III tells you all you need to know about how bad the prequels were.
III was the best, but that's such a low bar as to be meaningless. And I don't think they help the story at all. I'm with Handy, Anakin was such a whiny little ***** that it doesn't add anything to the real movies.
Vader going, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!" at the end of III tells you all you need to know about how bad the prequels were.
III was the best, but that's such a low bar as to be meaningless. And I don't think they help the story at all. I'm with Handy, Anakin was such a whiny little ***** that it doesn't add anything to the real movies.
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
Dang Handy...
We can agree to disagree, but if Vader was an unfeeling badass all along, how would you be able to explain that he comes all the way back, kills the Emperor and sacrifices himself to save his son?
If you hadn't seen that he was capable of love (however clumsily portrayed), how would it be possible for him to love a son that he had previously never met or knew existed enough to have VI make any sense at all.
The unfeeling badass would have killed Luke without a second thought once he realized that Luke wouldn't join him in his own quest to become Emperor (Sith Lord).
When a human succumbs to evil, there is going to be some underlying weakness or character flaw that will facilitate it. If not love and fear, what would you have liked to see as Vader's motivation that caused him to go from Jedi Knight good guy to someone who could do what he did?
Simple greed or lust for power? How would that explain his ending?
Weakness (as you call Vader) is exactly what leads to evil.
Again - the prequels (I and II anyway) are hot garbage. There's terrible acting, dialogue, side plots etc, etc, etc. The "love" story between Anakin and Padme may be the worst ever to hit the big screen. The execution of the movies is simply awful.
What I was referring to was a richer overall mythology due to more of the story being fleshed out. I've accepted that the overall story is what it is (whether I love all of it or not) and having done so, am enjoying it more this time around than I ever have.
Dang Handy...
We can agree to disagree, but if Vader was an unfeeling badass all along, how would you be able to explain that he comes all the way back, kills the Emperor and sacrifices himself to save his son?
If you hadn't seen that he was capable of love (however clumsily portrayed), how would it be possible for him to love a son that he had previously never met or knew existed enough to have VI make any sense at all.
The unfeeling badass would have killed Luke without a second thought once he realized that Luke wouldn't join him in his own quest to become Emperor (Sith Lord).
When a human succumbs to evil, there is going to be some underlying weakness or character flaw that will facilitate it. If not love and fear, what would you have liked to see as Vader's motivation that caused him to go from Jedi Knight good guy to someone who could do what he did?
Simple greed or lust for power? How would that explain his ending?
Weakness (as you call Vader) is exactly what leads to evil.
Again - the prequels (I and II anyway) are hot garbage. There's terrible acting, dialogue, side plots etc, etc, etc. The "love" story between Anakin and Padme may be the worst ever to hit the big screen. The execution of the movies is simply awful.
What I was referring to was a richer overall mythology due to more of the story being fleshed out. I've accepted that the overall story is what it is (whether I love all of it or not) and having done so, am enjoying it more this time around than I ever have.
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
I never got the impression that stormtroopers were still the clones. By that point, they are individuals.
They still have no value to something as big and unfeeling as the Empire, but that's the case with all of the Empire's expendable assets including Star Destroyers that Vader commands to enter the asteroid field in V.
The clones were a calculated move so that Order 66 would be carried out without question or deviation. After that, they would be unnecessary or at least, less necessary.
As far as Boba Fett, his story was ruined long before the prequels with his death in VI.
I like Yoda better for having seen him in action. It shows that he understands that might isn't always enough and adds gravitas and wisdom (through failure) to his teaching of Luke. His loss to Palpatine was likely the first time he ever lost at anything and probably changed how he approached teaching.
You don't want to see Yoda as a warrior? How would he teach other warriors? He had to have at one time been capable of handling himself in battle.
The Jedi being destroyed by something that was under their nose the entire time makes for a better story and a far bigger betrayal. Again, how would it be explained that they were destroyed if not through some trickery and deception? It's more gut wrenching to watch it happen when you know that it was preventable.
As you say, the Jedi were brought down in part by their own arrogance. That's a richer story and a more "human" realistic one than an infallible group who never make mistakes. Also makes their fall all the more tragic.
Vader killing more Jedi? It was better and lower that their own clones unfeelingly gunned them down in ambush. That's evil. That's death without dignity. That's a calculating mind (Palpatine) executing a (long term) plan with the least amount of personal risk and the greatest chance of success.
I don't love much about the prequels, but I LOVE Order 66.
Order 66 was brilliant and gut wrenching.
I never got the impression that stormtroopers were still the clones. By that point, they are individuals.
They still have no value to something as big and unfeeling as the Empire, but that's the case with all of the Empire's expendable assets including Star Destroyers that Vader commands to enter the asteroid field in V.
The clones were a calculated move so that Order 66 would be carried out without question or deviation. After that, they would be unnecessary or at least, less necessary.
As far as Boba Fett, his story was ruined long before the prequels with his death in VI.
I like Yoda better for having seen him in action. It shows that he understands that might isn't always enough and adds gravitas and wisdom (through failure) to his teaching of Luke. His loss to Palpatine was likely the first time he ever lost at anything and probably changed how he approached teaching.
You don't want to see Yoda as a warrior? How would he teach other warriors? He had to have at one time been capable of handling himself in battle.
The Jedi being destroyed by something that was under their nose the entire time makes for a better story and a far bigger betrayal. Again, how would it be explained that they were destroyed if not through some trickery and deception? It's more gut wrenching to watch it happen when you know that it was preventable.
As you say, the Jedi were brought down in part by their own arrogance. That's a richer story and a more "human" realistic one than an infallible group who never make mistakes. Also makes their fall all the more tragic.
Vader killing more Jedi? It was better and lower that their own clones unfeelingly gunned them down in ambush. That's evil. That's death without dignity. That's a calculating mind (Palpatine) executing a (long term) plan with the least amount of personal risk and the greatest chance of success.
I don't love much about the prequels, but I LOVE Order 66.
Order 66 was brilliant and gut wrenching.
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
Oh yeah, after II, III, and Clone Wars showed how *ing stupid the Jedi's were, Order 66 was nice breath of fresh air.
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
I, II and III are all bad. III is the best of the worst, but it's still bad.
ETA: For an in depth review of the horribleness of the III, you can see this here: http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-iii-revenge-of-the-sith/
I, II and III are all bad. III is the best of the worst, but it's still bad.
ETA: For an in depth review of the horribleness of the III, you can see this here: http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-iii-revenge-of-the-sith/
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Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
Went to VII again this morning, to pick up any nuances I might have missed the first time around. And I did. I'm going with the theory that Rey is Luke's daughter. Note: I have not read ANY articles/etc. Just what I've seen here and on GPL and talking with friends.
1. The Force in her is the obvious clue to her bloodline, even though you don't HAVE to be a Skywalker to have the Force. I doubt she's going to be the next great Jedi leader and NOT have some sort of connection via family.
2. In her "visions" episode, she's seen being held back from something or more likely someone being taken away. Any reference to her "family" is very general. The average person probably thinks mother AND father. Well, if Luke was off teaching Jedis, then it'd be just Rey and her mother.
2b. The person holding Rey back says, "Quiet, girl!" and sounds an awful lot like Kylo Ren.
3. When Kylo was told that the droid had help from FN12871 and "a girl..." Kylo freaks out and yells "WHAT GIRL?!" as if he remembered Rey from long ago (since she never left Jakku), and thought that she might be the girl in question.
4. Even though it was the obvious choice for the cliffhanger, Luke doesn't take the saber from Rey, he just looks at her. Maybe a slightly familiar look, but that is very open to interpretation.
5. Finally, Maz seems to KNOW that the saber belongs to Rey since Luke is missing and Rey is next of kin, and given Maz' knowledge and meeting and hearing about all those people over the years, AND she somehow has the light saber...
Dissect at will.....
Went to VII again this morning, to pick up any nuances I might have missed the first time around. And I did. I'm going with the theory that Rey is Luke's daughter. Note: I have not read ANY articles/etc. Just what I've seen here and on GPL and talking with friends.
1. The Force in her is the obvious clue to her bloodline, even though you don't HAVE to be a Skywalker to have the Force. I doubt she's going to be the next great Jedi leader and NOT have some sort of connection via family.
2. In her "visions" episode, she's seen being held back from something or more likely someone being taken away. Any reference to her "family" is very general. The average person probably thinks mother AND father. Well, if Luke was off teaching Jedis, then it'd be just Rey and her mother.
2b. The person holding Rey back says, "Quiet, girl!" and sounds an awful lot like Kylo Ren.
3. When Kylo was told that the droid had help from FN12871 and "a girl..." Kylo freaks out and yells "WHAT GIRL?!" as if he remembered Rey from long ago (since she never left Jakku), and thought that she might be the girl in question.
4. Even though it was the obvious choice for the cliffhanger, Luke doesn't take the saber from Rey, he just looks at her. Maybe a slightly familiar look, but that is very open to interpretation.
5. Finally, Maz seems to KNOW that the saber belongs to Rey since Luke is missing and Rey is next of kin, and given Maz' knowledge and meeting and hearing about all those people over the years, AND she somehow has the light saber...
Dissect at will.....
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
I thought it was Unkar Plutt (the junk dealer trading for rations), or one of his race that held back Rey when she was left on Jakku. It sounded more like him to me, and the size of the arm gave me that impression too.
I thought it was Unkar Plutt (the junk dealer trading for rations), or one of his race that held back Rey when she was left on Jakku. It sounded more like him to me, and the size of the arm gave me that impression too.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
A lot of what Rube stated makes sense except for it being Kylo Ren holding Rey back. That would make it less likely Luke is the father rather than Han/Leia and Kylo and Rey don't recognize each other at all when they meet. That said I still think Luke is her father which probably means he won't be because it's too obvious.
btw - when Ben and Yoda were discussing Leia as being "the other one" in V, it appears that Leia never went anywhere with her abilities - at least not from what I've seen on film. I've not read any of the books.
A lot of what Rube stated makes sense except for it being Kylo Ren holding Rey back. That would make it less likely Luke is the father rather than Han/Leia and Kylo and Rey don't recognize each other at all when they meet. That said I still think Luke is her father which probably means he won't be because it's too obvious.
btw - when Ben and Yoda were discussing Leia as being "the other one" in V, it appears that Leia never went anywhere with her abilities - at least not from what I've seen on film. I've not read any of the books.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The Old Guy...
Re: The Old Guy...
Gurt,
My point was you dont need any of that...Yoda was awesome before you saw the CGI ridiculousness with Dooku. Obiwon was great without any of the crap he does. The gaps make them mysterious and cool. You dont need to know Vader is capable of good, we saw it when he saved his son. Filling in the gaps was an unneeded exercise, like say taking a 300 page book and making it a trilogy of fat people running
Not everything requires elaboration.
I never got the sense after Anakin killed the children there was good in him, or that he was even that evil...he was just a kid worried he would lose his wife and thinks he deserves more power so he cheats his way into position and makes dumb decisions because his friend tricks him. He is a moron. You cannot watch his fall in 3 then see him in 4 and say it makes any sense without some serious yoga work.
Re: The Old Guy...
Gurt,
My point was you dont need any of that...Yoda was awesome before you saw the CGI ridiculousness with Dooku. Obiwon was great without any of the crap he does. The gaps make them mysterious and cool. You dont need to know Vader is capable of good, we saw it when he saved his son. Filling in the gaps was an unneeded exercise, like say taking a 300 page book and making it a trilogy of fat people running
Not everything requires elaboration.I never got the sense after Anakin killed the children there was good in him, or that he was even that evil...he was just a kid worried he would lose his wife and thinks he deserves more power so he cheats his way into position and makes dumb decisions because his friend tricks him. He is a moron. You cannot watch his fall in 3 then see him in 4 and say it makes any sense without some serious yoga work.
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Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
In the (now out of canon) books she trained a bit but gave up. Luke and her were at odds over it.
A lot of what Rube stated makes sense except for it being Kylo Ren holding Rey back. That would make it less likely Luke is the father rather than Han/Leia and Kylo and Rey don't recognize each other at all when they meet. That said I still think Luke is her father which probably means he won't be because it's too obvious.
btw - when Ben and Yoda were discussing Leia as being "the other one" in V, it appears that Leia never went anywhere with her abilities - at least not from what I've seen on film. I've not read any of the books.
In the (now out of canon) books she trained a bit but gave up. Luke and her were at odds over it.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: The Old Guy...
Re: The Old Guy...
I don't need any of that or you don't?
What Jackson did to the Hobbit is far different as it wasn't his story to do it to.
Lucas got to write his story - whether any of us like it in the end or not. They are the story (canon) though.
For my part, I don't believe that the story was nearly as bad as the execution of it on film. For that, I blame Lucas 100%.
Again, I like the added depth to the story - not the movies themselves other than III. You (and many others) don't.
I'm comfortable leaving it at that.
Re: The Old Guy...
Gurt,
My point was you dont need any of that...Yoda was awesome before you saw the CGI ridiculousness with Dooku. Obiwon was great without any of the crap he does. The gaps make them mysterious and cool. You dont need to know Vader is capable of good, we saw it when he saved his son. Filling in the gaps was an unneeded exercise, like say taking a 300 page book and making it a trilogy of fat people running
I never got the sense after Anakin killed the children there was good in him, or that he was even that evil...he was just a kid worried he would lose his wife and thinks he deserves more power so he cheats his way into position and makes dumb decisions because his friend tricks him. He is a moron. You cannot watch his fall in 3 then see him in 4 and say it makes any sense without some serious yoga work.
I don't need any of that or you don't?
What Jackson did to the Hobbit is far different as it wasn't his story to do it to.
Lucas got to write his story - whether any of us like it in the end or not. They are the story (canon) though.
For my part, I don't believe that the story was nearly as bad as the execution of it on film. For that, I blame Lucas 100%.
Again, I like the added depth to the story - not the movies themselves other than III. You (and many others) don't.
I'm comfortable leaving it at that.
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Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread
She might have been too young to really remember what Kylo looked like, although I do see your point.
I could also understand Unkar being the holder, and Kylo being behind the abduction of Rey's mother (and not necessarily being there). Maybe Luke was already "retired" and Kylo was on his way to being the big bad guy.
The "visions" swayed me a bit more towards this theory after seeing it a second time, but what REALLY got me was when Kylo flipped his sh* when a girl was mentioned. He kind of shrugged it off when FN was mentioned as a helper, you know?
A lot of what Rube stated makes sense except for it being Kylo Ren holding Rey back. That would make it less likely Luke is the father rather than Han/Leia and Kylo and Rey don't recognize each other at all when they meet. That said I still think Luke is her father which probably means he won't be because it's too obvious.
btw - when Ben and Yoda were discussing Leia as being "the other one" in V, it appears that Leia never went anywhere with her abilities - at least not from what I've seen on film. I've not read any of the books.
She might have been too young to really remember what Kylo looked like, although I do see your point.
I could also understand Unkar being the holder, and Kylo being behind the abduction of Rey's mother (and not necessarily being there). Maybe Luke was already "retired" and Kylo was on his way to being the big bad guy.
The "visions" swayed me a bit more towards this theory after seeing it a second time, but what REALLY got me was when Kylo flipped his sh* when a girl was mentioned. He kind of shrugged it off when FN was mentioned as a helper, you know?