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ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

They are kind of Bond movies; an evil genius with a secret lair and some sort of doomsday machine plus there are hundreds or thousands of bad guys who are all dressed alike.

Basically, the First Order are the "new" rebels, since the Republic (cough cough) turns a blind eye to the Resistance.
 
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

So I finally saw it. I definitely enjoyed it more than the prequels even though the plot obviously mirrors A New Hope in many ways.

I would have liked to have known more about the Republic/Resistance/First Order going in. From what I figured out after the death of the Emperor some portion of the Empire's military continued to fight the Rebels/Republic and after some major military loss near Jakku they signed some kind of treaty with the Republic and officially established the First Order in some corner of the Galaxy somewhere. They are in major militarization mode, training tons of storm troopers and building new weapons. This makes many in the Republic weary but there is no political will to go to war and put and end to it so the Resistance operates out of First Order territory to fight their resurgence and gets some kind of unofficial support from the Republic. okay. But what I can't figure out is where this supreme leader guy came from.
The entire Imperial government tried to operate as it had after the Emperor's death, even trying to cover it up and denying that a battle on Endor ever took place. There was a schism between the various Moffs for a period of time until finally one faction made off with the final remaining Super Star Destroyer. From that faction, the First Order was born. There was a huge naval battle over Jakku prior to the Imperial schism, which had big losses for both sides but it was devastating for the Empire. Part of the reason for the Empire doing so badly was that many of the seasoned captains and admirals were lost over Endor, and thus officers rushed up the chain of command were put in charge of their replacement fleet. The Star Destroyer Rey was scavenging was named The Inflictor, which was intentionally crashed into the planet after the Rebels were able to land a boarding party and infiltrate beyond the first line of stormtroopers.

The Republic does (did) fund the Resistance, which operates solely within the First Order's portion of the galaxy. Leia leads the Resistance, and was having issues with the Republic's political leaders on how things should proceed. The First Order seems to have cleared up that dispute for them.

Yes, I've been reading the new books that Disney has released in the run up to the movie. I'm a geek.
 
Basically, the First Order are the "new" rebels, since the Republic (cough cough) turns a blind eye to the Resistance.

No, the First Order are not the new rebels. Pretty sure the First Order and Resistance operate outside of Republic 'territory'. The First Order and the Republic are technically at peace unti the First Order uses the super weapon (because people within the Republic are supporting the Resistance)
 
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

I still don't get the love for III. Ren was more evil and more of a badass in VII then Vader was in III. He killed his dad and we got to see it. We didn't see Vader do anything in III. It was all implied.

III sucked and it was marginally better than I. I liked II the best of the prequels only because of the one scene with Yoda. I'd been waiting to see that the whole series and it's the only scene that delivered the goods for me.

I heard/read something about how Disney was restricted till 2020 on what material they could use. They could only use material from A New Hope till then. That might explain why VII is so much like it.
 
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Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

I still don't get the love for III. Ren was more evil and more of a badass in VII then Vader was in III. He killed his dad and we got to see it. We didn't see Vader do anything in III. It was all implied.

III sucked and it was marginally better than I. I liked II the best of the prequels only because of the one scene with Yoda. I'd been waiting to see that the whole series and it's the only scene that delivered the goods for me.

I heard/read something about how Disney was restricted till 2020 on what material they could use. They could only use material from A New Hope till then. That might explain why VII is so much like it.
20th Century Fox retains ownership rights to the first six movies under the purchase agreement until 2020. Then it all transfers to Disney. That's when I'm hoping Disney sees the wisdom in rereleasing the original trilogy without the additional scenes, just the cleaned up images. That would sell as well or better than any newly released movie they could possibly put into the theaters.
 
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

20th Century Fox retains ownership rights to the first six movies under the purchase agreement until 2020. Then it all transfers to Disney. That's when I'm hoping Disney sees the wisdom in rereleasing the original trilogy without the additional scenes, just the cleaned up images. That would sell as well or better than any newly released movie they could possibly put into the theaters.
You would think FOX would see the value of that right now while they still have ownership...
 
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

That would sell as well or better than any newly released movie they could possibly put into the theaters.

I'm still holding out. Have NEVER bought any Star Wars home video.
 
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

I'm still holding out. Have NEVER bought any Star Wars home video.

I bought the OT on DVD when they were bundled as a 2-disc set. Disc 1 was one of the edited versions with the extra junk added in by Lucas (he's released multiple edits over the years). Disc 2 is the theatrical versions completely untouched by Lucas. Disc 1 is 16:9, fits the full screen of an HDTV while disc 2 is 16:9 letterbox, meaning the viewable area has been shrunk. I think Lucas did the letterbox part just to flip off those who complained about his edits as he only released them on the second disc as a "fine, I give up, have your incomplete movies, then".
 
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Below is a rant copied from another board. Hard to argue with any of the points even though I liked VII.

Enjoy!

:D


WHAT A ********** DUMPSTERFIRE

The first act was like some kind of sick joke, intermingling stunning graphics with a barrage of attempts at cheap chuckles.

They were doing fine, until the Millennium Falcon just randomly appeared, unlocked, unguarded and ready to be flown, sitting next to a shady waystation, which just happened to be exactly where it needed to be OUT OF THE MILLIONS OF ********** PLANETS IN THE GALAXY. Yeah, nobody is going to rip that off, to get off a desolate planet. I realize that Luke may have been guiding certain events that look like ridiculous plot holes, like the girl finding Luke's blue light saber that fell into an abyss in Cloud City, but was somehow recovered, but Abrams didn't play it that way. They spent all of two seconds blurting out some gibberish backstory about gangs that the girl knew in its entirety for some ********** reason, and Luke looked somewhat confused when she showed up with his old light saber.

It was all downhill from there, just a parade of awkwardly shoehorning characters from the original trilogy into a rehashed A New Hope, like mindless puzzle pieces snapping into the flimsiest of typical plotlines. Its like they didn't even remotely take this seriously. The "New Order" a bunch of candy-*** Space Nazis unthreateningly bungled around, until whipping out a Death Star rip-off (because two X-wing trench scenes in 7 films apparently wasn't enough) with all the to-do of a minor subplot, before somehow AIMING A PLANET and roasting a bunch of other planets across at least a couple THOUSAND LIGHT YEARS, which of course visibly upsets ABSOLUTELY NO ONE in the film.

I like that the villain, who in all his badassery gave himself the name "Kilo Ren," which sounds like something my 6 year old nephew would come up with, is unstable and childish, but he was supposedly trained by Luke Skywalker and gets whipped around by a bunch of noobs. Why? Who knows. I guess it would be too much to handle for overly fragile children if he didn't get his *** kicked by people who don't really know how to use light sabers or the force.

The pacing was an absolute mess. They didn't take time for the audience to savor anything, save for some nice scenes of wrecked Imperial equipment in the beginning. Nothing was given any depth. Not that the original trilogy was particularly deep, but they at least spent some time on setting up Luke and giving you a look at the universe. The extras weren't particularly interesting. The settings were largely nondescript. There's no sense of the size or power of the First Order, "resistance," or their relationship to the Galactic Senate; just some generic heroes running from some generic bad guys to go blow something up.

I don't think it was as much of a disaster as the prequels, but it had much less personality than those films, which is pretty disgusting. The prequels failed at a lot of character development, but at least aimed for mediocre interest in the players. This film was soulless. It had no emotion whatsoever, which is incredible considering how many scenes included people getting WAY too upset over injuries to characters they've known for a total of a few hours.

THEY'RE ABOUT TO BLOW UP THE HOME PLANET OF THE RESISTANCE AND EVACUATION ISN'T EVEN MENTIONED

Why the need to bring Princess Leia to front line combat?

Totally wasted Max Von Sidow. He did nothing, and has as much chops as anybody who has ever been in the franchise.

They called the main bad guy "Supreme Ruler." What is this, some kind of ****ty Japanese Star Wars knock off?

The CGI ********** SUCKED. I thought they were going back to the roots to make this thing believable, but they gave us ten minutes of a creepily expressive yellow cartoon lady smack in the middle.

What was that gibberish about the sun setting before the laser fired?

There was no need to bring that pilot back. It was just one more stretch of believability.

I really can't consider this a serious attempt at film. Its the same, slapped-together, who-gives-a-****-about-the-plot, blockbuster formula, cheaply glazed over with Star Wars imagery. Its not quite the advertising suck-fest that I thought it would be. They left a lot of merchandizing opportunities on the table by not throwing in a ton of knew ships and equipment, but nonetheless, this thing had all the feel of bad fan fiction, with a cheesy, squeaky-clean Disney commercial overtone that doesn't evenly remotely convey a complete universe, the thing that made Star Wars the greatest thing that ever happened to a kid.

******* YOU. I'm done.
 
Below is a rant copied from another board. Hard to argue with any of the points even though I liked VII.

Enjoy!

:D


WHAT A ********** DUMPSTERFIRE

The first act was like some kind of sick joke, intermingling stunning graphics with a barrage of attempts at cheap chuckles.

They were doing fine, until the Millennium Falcon just randomly appeared, unlocked, unguarded and ready to be flown, sitting next to a shady waystation, which just happened to be exactly where it needed to be OUT OF THE MILLIONS OF ********** PLANETS IN THE GALAXY. Yeah, nobody is going to rip that off, to get off a desolate planet. I realize that Luke may have been guiding certain events that look like ridiculous plot holes, like the girl finding Luke's blue light saber that fell into an abyss in Cloud City, but was somehow recovered, but Abrams didn't play it that way. They spent all of two seconds blurting out some gibberish backstory about gangs that the girl knew in its entirety for some ********** reason, and Luke looked somewhat confused when she showed up with his old light saber.

It was all downhill from there, just a parade of awkwardly shoehorning characters from the original trilogy into a rehashed A New Hope, like mindless puzzle pieces snapping into the flimsiest of typical plotlines. Its like they didn't even remotely take this seriously. The "New Order" a bunch of candy-*** Space Nazis unthreateningly bungled around, until whipping out a Death Star rip-off (because two X-wing trench scenes in 7 films apparently wasn't enough) with all the to-do of a minor subplot, before somehow AIMING A PLANET and roasting a bunch of other planets across at least a couple THOUSAND LIGHT YEARS, which of course visibly upsets ABSOLUTELY NO ONE in the film.

I like that the villain, who in all his badassery gave himself the name "Kilo Ren," which sounds like something my 6 year old nephew would come up with, is unstable and childish, but he was supposedly trained by Luke Skywalker and gets whipped around by a bunch of noobs. Why? Who knows. I guess it would be too much to handle for overly fragile children if he didn't get his *** kicked by people who don't really know how to use light sabers or the force.

The pacing was an absolute mess. They didn't take time for the audience to savor anything, save for some nice scenes of wrecked Imperial equipment in the beginning. Nothing was given any depth. Not that the original trilogy was particularly deep, but they at least spent some time on setting up Luke and giving you a look at the universe. The extras weren't particularly interesting. The settings were largely nondescript. There's no sense of the size or power of the First Order, "resistance," or their relationship to the Galactic Senate; just some generic heroes running from some generic bad guys to go blow something up.

I don't think it was as much of a disaster as the prequels, but it had much less personality than those films, which is pretty disgusting. The prequels failed at a lot of character development, but at least aimed for mediocre interest in the players. This film was soulless. It had no emotion whatsoever, which is incredible considering how many scenes included people getting WAY too upset over injuries to characters they've known for a total of a few hours.

THEY'RE ABOUT TO BLOW UP THE HOME PLANET OF THE RESISTANCE AND EVACUATION ISN'T EVEN MENTIONED

Why the need to bring Princess Leia to front line combat?

Totally wasted Max Von Sidow. He did nothing, and has as much chops as anybody who has ever been in the franchise.

They called the main bad guy "Supreme Ruler." What is this, some kind of ****ty Japanese Star Wars knock off?

The CGI ********** SUCKED. I thought they were going back to the roots to make this thing believable, but they gave us ten minutes of a creepily expressive yellow cartoon lady smack in the middle.

What was that gibberish about the sun setting before the laser fired?

There was no need to bring that pilot back. It was just one more stretch of believability.

I really can't consider this a serious attempt at film. Its the same, slapped-together, who-gives-a-****-about-the-plot, blockbuster formula, cheaply glazed over with Star Wars imagery. Its not quite the advertising suck-fest that I thought it would be. They left a lot of merchandizing opportunities on the table by not throwing in a ton of knew ships and equipment, but nonetheless, this thing had all the feel of bad fan fiction, with a cheesy, squeaky-clean Disney commercial overtone that doesn't evenly remotely convey a complete universe, the thing that made Star Wars the greatest thing that ever happened to a kid.

******* YOU. I'm done.

Somebody needs a life.
 
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

I have read a few rants like that...it makes me smile :)
 
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Supreme Leader Snoke shall from henceforth be known as "Stimpy".
 
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

I will agree with one thing in the rant, I don't understand the point in having Poe Dameron survive especially if he doesn't end up in the same village as where Rey take BB-8 and meets Finn.
 
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

I will agree with one thing in the rant, I don't understand the point in having Poe Dameron survive especially if he doesn't end up in the same village as where Rey take BB-8 and meets Finn.

He survived so the Resistance could have a hotshot ace pilot for the battle as Maz Tanaka's palace, and then to sell more toys in Eps VIII and IX.

Oscar Isaac said that Poe was supposed to die in the TIE crash originally, but Abrams later wanted him to live so he could help out later in the movie.
 
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

I'd argue that only three of the writers were consistently solid (Timothy Zahn, Michael A. Stackpole and Aaron Allston.

I thought the three series by Jude Watson were all consistently excellent.
 
Re: The Old Guy...

Re: The Old Guy...

well said. While I was annoyed by the "sameness" of VII to IV, I still really enjoyed it. Although I was never as bothered by I, II and III as other people were.

good summary. I actually liked The Phantom Menace. I couldn't stand Attack of the Clowns, a total waste of screen time. The only part of that movie that was decent at all was the 10 minutes Obi-Wan spent on Pamino learning about how clones were made. And Revenge of the Sith, while much better than 2, was ruined for me when, after chopping Anakin down, Obi-wan gives him a stern lecture and then walks away, when his mission was to kill Anakin.

They made up for that glaring error in The Force Awakens at the end of Rey's light saber battle with Kylo Ren, by having a chasm open up between them. That (or something like it) would have make the rest of The Return of the Sith a decent movie for me, despite the ridiculousness of Anakin and Padme. That whole relationship was so lame.

Regarding TFA, not quite sure how I feel about it yet. Definitely a remake of IV with better wit and more fun, and I was not annoyed as much as expecting it from the trailers, and so I was pleasantly surprised. Whomever said we'll need to see how 8 plays out was right.

I can't see Rey being Luke's daughter. Was she taken to Jakku and left there to protect her from Kylo Ren (her brother) after he turned to the Dark Side? She has to be a descendant of Anakin somehow. That's right out of Joseph Campbell, whose work was deliberately used by Lucas to frame his mythology.
 
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Supreme Leader Snoke shall from henceforth be known as "Stimpy".

Supreme Leader Snoke will turn out to look nothing whatsoever like his hologram, the reveal will be an homage to the scene in The Wizard of Oz when Toto pulls aside the curtain. it will be Jar Jar Binks in a wheelchair.
 
Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Supreme Leader Snoke will turn out to look nothing whatsoever like his hologram, the reveal will be an homage to the scene in The Wizard of Oz when Toto pulls aside the curtain. it will be Jar Jar Binks in a wheelchair.

{slaps forehead} Of course!! :D
 
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