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Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

That's the part I don't get. Didn't this guy just lose to Walker in the last election? Why a rematch? It wasn't that close.

There was a Democratic primary among three candidates prior to next Tuesday's recall election. The union favorite came in 2nd in the primary....during the primary the uinon was pretty stridently anti-Barrett, and yet after Barrett won the primary the union scrubbed its website and became a big Barrett booster.....
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

There was a Democratic primary among three candidates prior to next Tuesday's recall election. The union favorite came in 2nd in the primary....during the primary the uinon was pretty stridently anti-Barrett, and yet after Barrett won the primary the union scrubbed its website and became a big Barrett booster.....
That's because Kathleen Falk isn't much of a candidate either...
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

No, just a free trip to Venusville....



Meanwhile, I saw an updated poll showing Walker ahead 52% to 45%.....not sure what happened to the other 3% though..;)

That's the newest poll from Marquette's law school. The "missing" 3% say they are undecided. In this race, how is that even possible? I believe they're either lying or dain bramaged.

Democratic pollster Celinda Lake has a survey out showing the race is tied at 49.
To my knowledge, hers is the only poll that doesn't show Barnett losing.
 
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Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

ah....

now we are getting a clearer sense of what is at stake here, given that Walker's legislative agenda has been in effect long enough to produce some observable results.

It's been noted previously that many school districts had reduced health insurance premiums once they no longer were forced to buy their health insurance from a union subsidiary; it's also been noted previously that some of his other budgetary reforms allowed the state and counties to close projected budget deficits without raising taxes.

Now there is this news, which is what really had the unions upset:
Public-employee unions in Wisconsin have experienced a dramatic drop in membership—by more than half for the second-biggest union—since a law championed by Republican Gov. Scott Walker sharply curtailed their ability to bargain over wages and working conditions.
...
Wisconsin membership in the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees—the state's second-largest public-sector union after the National Education Association, which represents teachers—fell to 28,745 in February from 62,818 in March 2011, according to a person who has viewed Afscme's figures. A spokesman for Afscme declined to comment.

Much of that decline came from Afscme Council 24, which represents Wisconsin state workers, whose membership plunged by two-thirds to 7,100 from 22,300 last year.

A provision of the Walker law that eliminated automatic dues collection hurt union membership. When a public-sector contract expires the state now stops collecting dues from the affected workers' paychecks unless they say they want the dues taken out, said Peter Davis, general counsel of the Wisconsin Employment Relations Commission.

In many cases, Afscme dropped members from its rolls after it failed to get them to affirm they want dues collected, said a labor official familiar with Afscme's figures. In a smaller number of cases, membership losses were due to worker layoffs.


For a related perspective:

As President Franklin Roosevelt famously warned, public-employee collective bargaining is incompatible with fairness. More to the point, FDR said: “Militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees [who have] the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of government activities. This obligation is paramount.”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinio...end_game_Ntk72kHm0kBHHQOkkO6RkO#ixzz1wS93Va8D
 
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Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

ah....

now we are getting a clearer sense of what is at stake here, given that Walker's legislative agenda has been in effect long enough to produce some observable results.

It's been noted previously that many school districts had reduced health insurance premiums once they no longer were forced to buy their health insurance from a union subsidiary; it's also been noted previously that some of his other budgetary reforms allowed the state and counties to close projected budget deficits without raising taxes.

Now there is this news, which is what really had the unions upset:



For a related perspective:



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinio...end_game_Ntk72kHm0kBHHQOkkO6RkO#ixzz1wS93Va8D

The nerve of those people, taking advantage of a law which allows them to decline to pay dues to organizations they think don't represent their interests. Or whose political aims are at variance with their own beliefs.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I've said it before and I'll say it again: no matter who wins, Wisconsin loses.
For the rest of us, though, it's LOLWisc. Also, Arizona thanks you for taking some of the pressure off them for Most Ridiculous State 2012 (although they still win going away).
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

For the rest of us, though, it's LOLWisc. Also, Arizona thanks you for taking some of the pressure off them for Most Ridiculous State 2012 (although they still win going away).
As long as Florida has people high on bath salts getting naked and eating homeless people's faces, I'm comfortable knowing that we're not the most screwed.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

As long as Florida has people high on bath salts getting naked and eating homeless people's faces, I'm comfortable knowing that we're not the most screwed.

Seems to me California might be the most messed-up state right now, they are on the verge of bankruptcy yet want to build a high-speed train?

Or Illinois, which is in serious danger of defaulting on its obligations and owes something like $9 billion in past-due bills. Ironic that Rahm Emmanuel as Mayor is now saying exactly the opposite of what he said three years ago, eh? No wonder when the Wisconsin state senate democrats fled the state to avoid voting on the budget, they went to Illinois!
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

The nerve of those people, taking advantage of a law which allows them to decline to pay dues to organizations they think don't represent their interests. Or whose political aims are at variance with their own beliefs.

**** Straight! Vote Walker June 5th.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

As long as Florida has people high on bath salts getting naked and eating homeless people's faces, I'm comfortable knowing that we're not the most screwed.

Florida isn't eligible for annual awards anymore. It got the lifetime achievement award for nuttiness a long, long time ago.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Seems to me California might be the most messed-up state right now, they are on the verge of bankruptcy yet want to build a high-speed train?

Or Illinois, which is in serious danger of defaulting on its obligations and owes something like $9 billion in past-due bills. Ironic that Rahm Emmanuel as Mayor is now saying exactly the opposite of what he said three years ago, eh? No wonder when the Wisconsin state senate democrats fled the state to avoid voting on the budget, they went to Illinois!

The Vampire State has them all beat, with downstate limits on pop portions, exceedingly higher property taxes, and more and more people folding up shop and leaving.

The TEA party has REALLY been campaigning in Wisconsin.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

it is quite possible that they had no business over turning the will of the people of Iowa.

And of course, by will of the people of Iowa, you mean the monetary power of out of state interest groups like the National Organization for Marriage, who outspent the judges about 5-to-1 since they weren't limited by things like judicial ethics.

(But I digress - I kinda thought this would happen in Wisc. - if they could have recalled Walker last year, he would've been a goner by a 20% margin. No surprise things change when a year passes and most people continue to live their daily lives essentially unaffected)
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

And of course, by will of the people of Iowa, you mean the monetary power of out of state interest groups like the National Organization for Marriage, who outspent the judges about 5-to-1 since they weren't limited by things like judicial ethics.

(But I digress - I kinda thought this would happen in Wisc. - if they could have recalled Walker last year, he would've been a goner by a 20% margin. No surprise things change when a year passes and most people continue to live their daily lives essentially unaffected)

It's possible the ardor for recall may have diminished somewhat with the eliminatiion of a 3.5 billion dollar budget deficit without raising property taxes. That is why the "union busting" issues are rarely discussed these days. Oh, and by their thousands, people formerly held hostage by the union hacks are using their new freedom and waving bye bye. Free at last. Free at last. Thank God Almighty, we're free at last.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

It's possible the ardor for recall may have diminished somewhat with the eliminatiion of a 3.5 billion dollar budget deficit without raising property taxes. That is why the "union busting" issues are rarely discussed these days.
especially as the unions' hand-picked candidate finished second in the primary by a fairly wide margin, and the winner of the Democratic primary had been through some contentious negotiations across the table from Milwaukee's municipal unions...since the "pro-union" slate finished second in the primary, there is no "true" pro-union candidate left running.

[aside: I assume because you put "union busting" in quotes it is because that is what Walker's opponents say he was trying to do; however, it seems clear if you look at the fine-print details of what he actually did is that he rebalanced the scales between the union and the taxpayer: the unions still have valuable services to perform on behalf of their members; Walker is merely implementing reforms aligned with FDR: the union cannot bargain over wages and benefits (it can still bargain over working conditions and disciplinary issues, I think), and the state no longer automatically collects dues from every employee on the unions' behalf.]

Oh, and by their thousands, people formerly held hostage by the union hacks are using their new freedom and waving bye bye. Free at last. Free at last. Thank God Almighty, we're free at last.

I think you are going overboard a bit here....if I were rich, I'd try to set up an alternative to the existing union right now, and compete with them for membership. As I said, the union still potentially has a valuable role to play and can certainly provide enough services to justify a certain level of dues collection. It seems reasonable that the state would allow employees a voluntary checkoff to pay union dues, and if the union were to stop all political advertising and pay its executives a fair salary (it appears most top-level union executives are paid more than they deliver in value; i.e. they are currently overpaid), then the dues would be substantially lower than they are now and still provide enough cash flow to make the union viable and useful.

Astute public-sector union members have known for awhile that leadership is more enamored of being political big-shots in the Democratic party and less devoted to the needs of union members themselves; yet they are afraid to speak out because of the ferocity and savagery of the intimidation (sadly, I know too much about this from first-hand experience). They no longer use physical force, there are enough procedural hoops and challenges available to them that they can make life totally miserable for anyone who stands up for what union members really want, and by making an example of those few who do say something, the rest are cowed into sullen silence, so that the 5% or 10% of misfit slackers continue to get away with stuff that no one with any integrity would want to be associated with.

Walker's reforms actually give the union members a chance to reshape the union, to "right-size" it if you will, so that it continues to remain useful, effective, and viable, by concentrating its resources on representing its members' best interests and give up being political big shots.
 
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Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

It's possible the ardor for recall may have diminished somewhat with the eliminatiion of a 3.5 billion dollar budget deficit without raising property taxes. That is why the "union busting" issues are rarely discussed these days. Oh, and by their thousands, people formerly held hostage by the union hacks are using their new freedom and waving bye bye. Free at last. Free at last. Thank God Almighty, we're free at last.
Admittedly, a more balanced budget is a more balanced budget. So at least there's that.

I voted for Walker in 2010, and aside from the fact that he knows how to balance a checkbook (which is kind of a big deal to me) I kind of regret it. We're definitely better off with him than if Barrett had won, so I won't be voting for him next week on that basis (and also on the basis that this recall is childish, is wasting a lot of money and Barrett winning does not set a good precedent). It seems I'm either stuck with Walker or "wasting" a vote on some third party schmuck that probably isn't really up for the job in the first place. This sucks.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

especially as the unions' hand-picked candidate finished second in the primary by a fairly wide margin, and the winner of the Democratic primary had been through some contentious negotiations across the table from Milwaukee's municipal unions...since the "pro-union" slate finished second in the primary, there is no "true" pro-union candidate left running.

[aside: I assume because you put "union busting" in quotes it is because that is what Walker's opponents say he was trying to do; however, it seems clear if you look at the fine-print details of what he actually did is that he rebalanced the scales between the union and the taxpayer: the unions still have valuable services to perform on behalf of their members; Walker is merely implementing reforms aligned with FDR: the union cannot bargain over wages and benefits (it can still bargain over working conditions and disciplinary issues, I think), and the state no longer automatically collects dues from every employee on the unions' behalf.]



I think you are going overboard a bit here....if I were rich, I'd try to set up an alternative to the existing union right now, and compete with them for membership. As I said, the union still potentially has a valuable role to play and can certainly provide enough services to justify a certain level of dues collection. It seems reasonable that the state would allow employees a voluntary checkoff to pay union dues, and if the union were to stop all political advertising and pay its executives a fair salary (it appears most top-level union executives are paid more than they deliver in value; i.e. they are currently overpaid), then the dues would be substantially lower than they are now and still provide enough cash flow to make the union viable and useful.

Astute public-sector union members have known for awhile that leadership is more enamored of being political big-shots in the Democratic party and less devoted to the needs of union members themselves; yet they are afraid to speak out because of the ferocity and savagery of the intimidation (sadly, I know too much about this from first-hand experience). They no longer use physical force, there are enough procedural hoops and challenges available to them that they can make life totally miserable for anyone who stands up for what union members really want, and by making an example of those few who do say something, the rest are cowed into sullen silence, so that the 5% or 10% of misfit slackers continue to get away with stuff that no one with any integrity would want to be associated with.

Walker's reforms actually give the union members a chance to reshape the union, to "right-size" it if you will, so that it continues to remain useful, effective, and viable, by concentrating its resources on representing its members' best interests and give up being political big shots.

Still, thousands of public sector union members who had dues subtracted from their paychecks like taxes are saying "see ya." No way to put lipstick on that pig. I agree with FDR, public employees should not be able to unionize. It's a scam.
 
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