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Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Still, thousands of public sector union members who had dues subtracted from their paychecks like taxes are saying "see ya." No way to put lipstick on that pig.

of course they are....now, but that's only because the dues are too high relative to the value they deliver. They merely need to be realigned and the union can make a comeback. The leaders forgot that their first priority should have been the well-being of their membership, not their own grandiosity.

I agree with FDR, public employees should not be able to unionize. It's a scam.

I both agree and disagree, to the extent that public-sector unions shouldn't be able to negotiate wages and benefits, yes, but to eliminate them entirely, no. There is no good reason to deny state or municipal workers the right peacably to assemble to promote common purpose and common cause in other areas.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

of course they are....now, but that's only because the dues are too high relative to the value they deliver. They merely need to be realigned and the union can make a comeback. The leaders forgot that their first priority should have been the well-being of their membership, not their own grandiosity.



I both agree and disagree, to the extent that public-sector unions shouldn't be able to negotiate wages and benefits, yes, but to eliminate them entirely, no. There is no good reason to deny state or municipal workers the right peacably to assemble to promote common purpose and common cause in other areas.

I agree. Unions should be required to convince potential members as opposed to coercing them. The state should absolutely not be in the business of forcing people to join unions. But coercion is a big part of the "union label." You don't hear much about "card check" anymore (hopefully never again). Utterly unbelievable that you had people advocating the elimination of the secret ballot in America. If unions can show value for the dues paid in and quit using dues to support candidates many of the rank and file don't and open their books so the membership can see where the money's going (think Teamsters), then they have my blessing.

Union abuses are so deeply ingrained, so part of our culture, that most of us don't notice it. Union leaders are like the pigs in "Animal Farm," you can't hardly tell them from the humans anymore. And public sector unions are way worse. Although I'm thinking we'd have to come up with a new word to describe a public sector union that can't bargain collectively for wages and benefits.
 
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Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Although I'm thinking we'd have to come up with a new word to describe a public sector union that can't bargain collectively for wages and benefits.

With luck, in a few year's we'll merely call them "public sector unions," eh? ;)
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Wisconsin...that's in Minnesota, right?

One would think with a name like Tim, you'd be awesome.......Not. Screw you. The Mississippi River isn't a wide enough physical border between the 2 states, and I'm sure the rodent folks agree with this. When you catch walleyes is the Mississippi, you can taste the difference between the ones that spawned on the WI side vs the MN side. Now back to your regularly scheduled program......Vote Walker June 5 and tell the unions to blank off.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

One would think with a name like Tim, you'd be awesome.......Not. Screw you. The Mississippi River isn't a wide enough physical border between the 2 states, and I'm sure the rodent folks agree with this. When you catch walleyes is the Mississippi, you can taste the difference between the ones that spawned on the WI side vs the MN side. Now back to your regularly scheduled program......Vote Walker June 5 and tell the unions to blank off.

The WI ones taste like paint thinner.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

If the news reports I read are accurate, in Walker's original campaign for governor, one of his promises was to enact reforms to the relationship between public sector unions and the state, so that when he subsequently proceeded to do just that, he was keeping a campaign promise.

And so the premise of the recall is that Walker did what he said he was going to do?
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I can't speak for WI public Union employees, but here in MA, people are really starting to get fed up with their same old games. It is now a proven fact that state/Govt workers make more pay than their private sector counterparts, in many cases SUBSTANTIALLY more pay. They retire oftentimes 10-20 years earlier than their private sector counterparts. They retire with huge pensions, often jacked up through borderline legal loopholes and scams that their democratic lawmakers put in place solely for their benefit. In the meantime, private sector workers work until their late 60's or longer and have to live off of Social Security and or off of their self funded 401k's, which again, pale in comparison to the lavish pensions that most state workers get. There probably isn't enough RAM on this website to list the MA state employees that are retiring with $100K+ annual pensions. These workers get outrageously generous health insurance benefits and they keep getting them after they retire (that's right, no medicare), right up until their deaths. They get a ridiculous amount of sick days, personal days, holidays and vacation days that nobody keeps track of, then when they retire, they sell them back (even the ones they used that nobody noticed, wink, wink) for cash, with many getting hundreds of thousands in payoffs when they retire. They get automatic raises, in addition to cost of living raises and take advantage of countless scams and loopholes which allow them to stuff their pockets with more cash, retire early with bogus disability claims, be able to work two full time jobs at the same time (of course one being a no-show job), as in same hours, etc, etc, etc. The list of these shenanigans is endless. The Boston Herald lists the salaries of state workers and your jaw hits the floor after about two seconds of looking at it. Whether it's cops, firemen, gym teachers, janitors, toll booth collectors, bus drivers, secretaries, DPW workers, Electricians, it doesn't matter, the salaries are through the roof and only growing! As these public worker costs continue to skyrocket, what happens? Your property taxes go up 10% per year with no end in sight, every possible fee or tax (car registration, license renewal, excise tax, cigarette tax, meal tax, sales tax, fishing license fees, parking ticket fees, etc) in the state seems to double every couple years, not to mention the new ones they come up with every month or so. So, as a result, we now have to pay for our kids to take the bus to school, pay for them to play sports at school, our roads, bridges, highways and infrastructure in general are falling apart, we have to pay to have our garbage picked up and it's only getting worse! Have you seen what's going on in CA? They have something like a $50 Billion dollar unfunded public employee pension liability that is going to sink that state long before any earthquake does. And every last politician knows what the problem is, but not a one will dare ask the Unions for any type of concessions, better to just to go down with the ship I guess.. Unless of course, Obama does another one of his "Stimulus" packages, which are nothing more than our tax dollars being used to keep afloat the run-away freight train that the CA public workers union has become. If ONLY, the Public sector Unions could see how good they have it compared to the rest of us, and give just a little back.... but they don't, only if they get something back in return will they negotiate and even then, they usually want more back for what little they give. He11, in MA, after it was discovered that many ON DUTY firemen were high on drugs or drunk, the state eventually had to give in and give them pay raises just to allow them to be random drug tested. There are public workers getting caught left and right falsifying time sheets, stealing public property and money, threatening and intimidating people, getting caught with drugs and even dealing drugs, falsifying EMT test exams, faking injuries and nothing ever gets done. Unless you are on film with 100 witnesses having seen you murder 50 innocent children, your job is safe, end of story. Look at NJ, when in an effort to help resolve the budget crisis, Chris Christie had the nerve to ask teachers (who I might add have the best benefits of any teachers in the country) to pay something like $5-$10 more per month towards their health insurance or temporarily delay some type of cost of living raise (I forget exactly what he was asking, but it wasn't much) he had death threats made against him and they wanted to burn down the Governors mansion. Remember folks, these Public Union types are A LOT better off than the democrats would have you believe, so it's a total joke to suggest that Scott Walker or any other Governor that is trying to take away some of these Union's collective bargaining rights to help prevent a total collapse in state finances is hurting the middle class, because from where I sit, these folks are a lot better off than "Middle class", A LOT better. They have second summer homes on the Cape, with a mint boat at the local dock and go on vacations that most of us could only dream of. And worst of all, many are retired in their 50's or earlier! If you work for the MBTA for example, it's 23 years, then full retirement, can you believe that, start at 18 and retire for life at 41 with a sick pension and free health insurance for life; how can we afford such outrageous things? For the record, I have absolutely NOTHING against private sector unions, only when politicians put policies in place such as taking away a states's right to work law that serves nothing more than to kill the taxpayer. Wake up people, unless things change soon, you are looking at the Greek situation here on our own shores
 
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Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

If the news reports I read are accurate, in Walker's original campaign for governor, one of his promises was to enact reforms to the relationship between public sector unions and the state, so that when he subsequently proceeded to do just that, he was keeping a campaign promise.

And so the premise of the recall is that Walker did what he said he was going to do?

You're going to need sources for that. Last summer, all the rage was about governors in Wisconsin, Ohio and Florida (and a hat tip to Michigan's over the Emergency Manager law) pushing through legislation that they didn't run on. Politfact has Walker's claims that he was simply enacting campaign promises as false, FWIW.
 
You're going to need sources for that. Last summer, all the rage was about governors in Wisconsin, Ohio and Florida (and a hat tip to Michigan's over the Emergency Manager law) pushing through legislation that they didn't run on. Politfact has Walker's claims that he was simply enacting campaign promises as false, FWIW.

But yet unions sent out mailers prior to the 2010 elections warning that Walker was going to come after collective bargaining. Either they were lying/ exaggerating (never!) or there was something to it.

I do think it may be correct that he may not have explicitly laid out what he would do - but he did promise to balance the budget and rein in budget abuses, which he's done.

If our new standard for governance is that one can only do explicitly what they've promised and only that, that's swell, but my is that going to be a delightful standard to enforce. We would have to start by doing away with the PPACA, for one.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I seem to recall (from reading about it, I wasn't actually there, so shut up) FDR didn't exactly spell out the New Deal in great detail during the '32 campaign. And none of the generations of hagiographers who've come along since have criticized him for it.

The worm has turned on greedy, corrupt public sector unions--perhaps for generations. The irony in Wisconsin is that these union issues are rarely mentioned anymore, certainly not by Barrett. Possibly because that 3.5 billion dollar deficit is history and property taxes have gone down and there have been no huge teacher layoffs.
 
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