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Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Kepler said:
I think the real question is are we better off with federal funding of schools? If you eliminate the DOE you should pull all federal dollars from education and let the states stand or fall on their own. South Carolina can teach that photosynthesis is caused by Jesus kisses. People with kids they want educated will vote with their feet and in fifty years the red states will have local economies equal to the Sudan and half their current EV. Problem solved.
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Exactly. None of this block grants crap. No department = no money. I know my state has the means to fund education. One has to wonder if conservative states such as KY, WVA, ID, WY, NE, and KS to name a few have the funds to do so themselves.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

If we were to allow those states to go back to the dark ages education-wise it would be bad for everyone and both of you know that. To speak about it rhetorically is fine and dandy but if it actually happened the chaos it would cause would be terrible.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Handyman said:
If we were to allow those states to go back to the dark ages education-wise it would be bad for everyone and both of you know that. To speak about it rhetorically is fine and dandy but if it actually happened the chaos it would cause would be terrible.
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I disagree somewhat Handy. I think modern day conservatism can be summed up as "we want to complain but we'll take the money anyway". For example, IIRC 9 states pay more to the Feds than they get back, and aside from Texas and Florida they tend to be liberal ones (MA, CA, IL, NJ, NY, etc). Don't like government? No prob - stop taking more money than you pay in. I suspect if the country passed that law, you'd see a lot more cooperation and a lot less nonsensical arguments out of the right.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

FreshFish said:
It's not at all clear that the data actually supports this conclusion. More and more resources have been devoted to education over the past decade yet despite these additional resources, there is no evidence that student learning has improved at all.
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This is not true. Ed spending has been cut in about 70% of states since the mid 2000s...with WI being high on the list. Few states increasing spending included states like WY and AK which are quite small. And WI cuts again were 9% this year alone...and as far as I can tell, that has nothing to do with the unions issue.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

5mn_Major said:
This is not true. Ed spending has been cut in about 70% of states since the mid 2000s...with WI being high on the list. Few states increasing spending included states like WY and AK which are quite small. And WI cuts again were 9% this year alone...and as far as I can tell, that has nothing to do with the unions issue.
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9% how? total $? per pupil? Including new school construction? Decreases in pensions to put them more in line with the private sector? 9% really means nothing to me unless you elaborate what that means, not to mention how it is impacted by silly decisions by some of the larger school districts in Wisconsin not taking advantage of Walker's changes.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Shirtless Guy said:
9% how? total $? per pupil? Including new school construction? Decreases in pensions to put them more in line with the private sector? 9% really means nothing to me unless you elaborate what that means, not to mention how it is impacted by silly decisions by some of the larger school districts in Wisconsin not taking advantage of Walker's changes.
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Just reporting what I saw:

http://www.theroot.com/buzz/wisconsin-gov-scott-walkers-budget-cut-900-million-education
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Rover said:
I disagree somewhat Handy. I think modern day conservatism can be summed up as "we want to complain but we'll take the money anyway". For example, IIRC 9 states pay more to the Feds than they get back, and aside from Texas and Florida they tend to be liberal ones (MA, CA, IL, NJ, NY, etc). Don't like government? No prob - stop taking more money than you pay in. I suspect if the country passed that law, you'd see a lot more cooperation and a lot less nonsensical arguments out of the right.
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I am not disagreeing with that...I am saying if you allow the derps to actually do it we will be pining for the modern test scores because it will get worse. The unintended consequences could be rather severe. that is what I am saying.

Things like this are great to talk about, but the outcomes can be pretty bad. It reminds of the people who say if a teen gets knocked up she should be forced to take it to term forgetting that most likely that teen mom will be on Welfare and Food Stamps and the kid will grow up in a terrible environment. In theory it is a great idea, in practice it screws everyone.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

5mn_Major said:
Just reporting what I saw:

http://www.theroot.com/buzz/wisconsin-gov-scott-walkers-budget-cut-900-million-education
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Which is so sorely lacking in details as to be nothing more than a "preach to the choir" piece since only the choir already knows the notes. Most of the time, when I see the actual details, it is not a "cut" it is merely a lower rate of spending increase. Andrew Cuomo did a fantastic number on that racket at the outset of his governorship in NY...the state had automatic multipliers in place and he called them out and reined them in....there is still an increase, but now it is at the lower of 2.5% or at the rate of inflation, not at 10% per year no matter what.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

FreshFish said:
Which is so sorely lacking in details as to be nothing more than a "preach to the choir" piece since only the choir already knows the notes. Most of the time, when I see the actual details, it is not a "cut" it is merely a lower rate of spending increase. Andrew Cuomo did a fantastic number on that racket at the outset of his governorship in NY...the state had automatic multipliers in place and he called them out and reined them in....there is still an increase, but now it is at the lower of 2.5% or at the rate of inflation, not at 10% per year no matter what.
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Just a note on posting. Its not likely folks are going to believe you when you say 'I disagree with your pov, so I know your data is false'...when you could take 10 seconds and go find out whether its true or not in reality. Until then reality is based on the facts we have...not what someone believes they could be.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

FreshFish said:
Most of the time, when I see the actual details, it is not a "cut" it is merely a lower rate of spending increase.
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So, like Obama's defense budget, which Republicans accuse of being "deep cuts," "slashing," etc?

Good to know.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Hmm....something seems to have changed lately....


Madison, Wis.

On Monday, local party officials began complaining bitterly about the lack of resources national Democratic groups are committing to the recall effort in Wisconsin. “We are frustrated by the lack of support from the Democratic National Committee and the Democratic Governors Association,” a top Wisconsin Democratic Party official told The Washington Post’s Greg Sargent.

Back in January, the complaints were coming from the other end: National Democrats were irked that labor unions and others planned to spend tens of millions of dollars to recall Gov. Scott Walker — leaving less for President Obama’s re-election drive and congressional contests.

But amid increasingly poor polling numbers for Walker’s challenger, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, Democrats and their allies at the national level seem to be re-thinking their commitment to the Wisconsin race. NBC’s Chuck Todd asked recently if the DNC would be sending more cash to help Barrett; the answer from Stephanie Cutter, Obama’s deputy campaign manager, was strongly noncommittal: “I don’t know the answer to that question...."
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http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinio...isconsin_RE1DCoYzJdwbztcTLeTLVL#ixzz1v967ZL6h
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

If Walker wins you can stick a fork in labor. Course the fork was already in anyway but this completes the baking of the cake.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

ScoobyDoo said:
If Walker wins you can stick a fork in labor. Course the fork was already in anyway but this completes the baking of the cake.
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so you somehow thing controlling the out of control public sector unions is going to kill of all labor in the state of Wisconsin? That's a good one.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I think it would be the most public rebuke yet of Labor. This is a race they should win if they're organizational skills are as good as commonly advertised. Simply put, its a GOTV race now. Mobilize and get your people to the polls. Make the argument as to why this is unfair after you'd already agreed to cuts. If you can't do that, you don't deserve to win. Plain and simple. The flip side is if they do win, coupled with the Ohio repeal of a similar law, and they're in the drivers seat. Should be interesting...
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Rover said:
I think it would be the most public rebuke yet of Labor. This is a race they should win if they're organizational skills are as good as commonly advertised. Simply put, its a GOTV race now. Mobilize and get your people to the polls. Make the argument as to why this is unfair after you'd already agreed to cuts. If you can't do that, you don't deserve to win. Plain and simple. The flip side is if they do win, coupled with the Ohio repeal of a similar law, and they're in the drivers seat. Should be interesting...
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It seems to me that the labor movement has over-reacted here. It is not at all a question in my mind of being "anti-" labor, it is more a question of re-balancing. Sort of like an investment portfolio....if one of your investments goes way up relative to the others, you sell some of it and put the sales proceeds into the remaining buckets, so you are back at your target allocation (not that I have much of an investment portfolio, but I've read about them and like to daydream about what it would be like to have one ;)). Public-sector union compensation had lagged private sector; then it jumped way ahead, now it is merely being brought back in line.

If they think they are being treated unfairly, they must really be out of touch....I know lots of people who would love to have their jobs! Even when you look at their "concessions" relative to what the rest of us have to make do with, they are still well off....perhaps merely unaware of how valuable their benefit packages are? For a 62-year old person to retire with a $50,000 pension for life takes about $750,000; add in retiree health coverage and you are looking at about $1.1 million package right there. yet to contribute 3% of pay toward that $1.1 million is a hardship??? oh, please.
 
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