Wisconsin vs Total Recall

[joecct]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Steve
(a) Anyway to disable autoplay?
(b) Was that in Madison?

 

[carltonbarrett]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I would love to hear what you pro-union people suggest should be done to solve all these budget problems, seriously? Turn on the news and all that you see is that cities and towns from coast to coast are on the brink of bankruptcy under the crushing pressure of skyrocketing public employee, pay, pensions, healthcare costs, benefits, etc. This isn't a myth, it's black and white - and Stockton, CA is next. So all kidding aside, when town finance managers insist that they just cannot keep up with these rising costs, what do you suggest? I suppose the only thing you CAN suggest is raise taxes, but get real, that's pretty darn selfish. So again, what's the fix? I'm all ears?

 

[Foxton]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I would love to hear what you pro-union people suggest should be done to solve all these budget problems, seriously? Turn on the news and all that you see is that cities and towns from coast to coast are on the brink of bankruptcy under the crushing pressure of skyrocketing public employee, pay, pensions, healthcare costs, benefits, etc. This isn't a myth, it's black and white - and Stockton, CA is next. So all kidding aside, when town finance managers insist that they just cannot keep up with these rising costs, what do you suggest? I suppose the only thing you CAN suggest is raise taxes, but get real, that's pretty darn selfish. So again, what's the fix? I'm all ears?

Turn off fox news.

 

[SteveP]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Steve
(a) Anyway to disable autoplay?
(b) Was that in Madison?

a) Couldn't see any way so I deleted it.
b) Milwaukee.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

So now that the Wisconsin recall vote is over, can we start referring to the 99%ers as the 46%ers?

 

[geezer]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Except that's what Walker did - "Public unions should have no collective bargaining rights except for COLA's up to the inflation level." Oh, and police and firefighters? By all means, go ahead and unionize since you normally vote Republican.

No right to bargain on salary increases past inflation. No right to bargain on benefits, pension, or anything else.

Seems like opposition to the notion that "unions should have bargaining rights" to me.

Except that like FDR and others, I was making the distinction between public employees and free market employees unionizing, an important part of my point (and the distinction is important to understand regarding Walker's reforms as well). I'm all for unions. Just not ones that are allowed to rule over the rest of us citizens without any checks or balances.

 

[MUnRPI]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Turn off fox news.

You are. without a doubt. the stupidest troll on this board.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I would love to hear what you pro-union people suggest should be done to solve all these budget problems, seriously?

A trick question? US taxpayers are still working on paying half of the world's military budget...and have seen an 81% increase in military spending since 2001.

Meanwhile the US worker is losing to its overseas competitors at the cost of the country's welfare, its ability to pay its debt and yes, covering its massive Dept of Defense budget which is about 10 times that of the Dept of Education.

Must be a trick question.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

A trick question? US taxpayers are still working on paying half of the world's military budget...and have seen an 81% increase in military spending since 2001.

Meanwhile the US worker is losing to its overseas competitors at the cost of the country's welfare, its ability to pay its debt and yes, covering its massive Dept of Defense budget which is about 10 times that of the Dept of Education.


Must be a trick question.

Of course, the problems states and municipalities have in meeting their obligations to greedy employee unions are caused by defense spending.

The "trick", my dear Major, is you presenting gibberish in the form of an argument.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Meanwhile the US worker is losing to its overseas competitors

You do understand why we are losing jobs to foreign countries right?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Of course, the problems states and municipalities have in meeting their obligations to greedy employee unions are caused by defense spending.

Problem is that state budgets are way down relative to federal budgets...ie the states are getting starved relative to the federal government. But we should futher cut state spending and keep the growing federal budget in tact?

So we taxpayers should continue to want to pay nearly half the world's military budget...while sacrificing an education budget that is already a tenth of the size...just because we don't know how to transfer funds between federal and state levels? Really?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

You do understand why we are losing jobs to foreign countries right?

Are you suggesting you're more knowledgeable on the topic? Feel free to enlighten.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Problem is that state budgets are way down relative to federal budgets...ie the states are getting starved relative to the federal government. But we should futher cut state spending and keep the growing federal budget in tact?

So we taxpayers should continue to want to pay nearly half the world's military budget...while sacrificing an education budget that is already a tenth of the size...just because we don't know how to transfer funds between federal and state levels? Really?

This, with respect, is the most boneheaded argument I've ever heard. Defense is a federal responsibility and has nothing whatsoever to do with states and municipalities finding themselves between a rock and a hard place (cutting services or raising taxes) to meet the obligations they've stupidly taken on to meet the demands of greedy employee unions.

If you want to discuss defense spending then please do so in a way that comports with reality. Don't just riffle through your supply of bumper stickers to find one that makes your "point." Start with His Doneness spending about a trillion bucks to provide "shovel ready" jobs to his union goon supporters. The phrase "jobs created or saved" is one of the most dishonest in recent decades. Just like his phony manipulation of demand with "cash for clunkers."

States and municipalities got themselves into this mess by repeatedly caving in to unions when times were good. Well, the times aren't so good anymore, but the states and municipalities still have trillions of dollars in obligations to their employees (and those obligations are growing every day) even as their revenues decline. Blame it on Donald Rumsfeld if it makes you feel better. But folks all across this nation, and in liberal Wisconsin, are beginning to come to the realization that we can't sustain this madness any more. Most Americans would be willing to pay more in taxes to maintain government services, but not the lifestyles and gold plated benefit plans of overpaid employees.

 

[unofan]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Except that like FDR and others, I was making the distinction between public employees and free market employees unionizing, an important part of my point (and the distinction is important to understand regarding Walker's reforms as well). I'm all for unions. Just not ones that are allowed to rule over the rest of us citizens without any checks or balances.

You mean like the check and balance of voting for people who slash the budget? The public has more say over those jobs than any private sector job. Fark, the public sector has lost hundreds of thousands of jobs over the past 2-3 years. Next to housing, it's probably the single weakest sector and responsible for a good .5-1 percent of the national unemployment numbers. Take away the temporary census employees, and it wouldn't shock me if public sector employment has dropped every quarter since 2008 or so.

I do hope those of you *****ing about the public sector never complain about long lines at the DMV, delays in court cases, or potholes in your roads. Because you're going to get exactly what you pay for.

 

[unofan]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Of course, the problems states and municipalities have in meeting their obligations to greedy employee unions

...is that they raided the pension funds without any plan or desire to pay it back. THey simply kicked that can down the road for the last 30 years. And now employees who earned said pensions are boned.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

...is that they raided the pension funds without any plan or desire to pay it back. THey simply kicked that can down the road for the last 30 years. And now employees who earned said pensions are boned.

When is General Wenck going to attack? Yes, of course, politicians and municipal officials kicked the financial can down the road, approving more than generous benefits, knowing they would be long gone before the butcher's bill needed paying. And the employees unions continued to pour money into local elections to make sure "friendly" officials were always at their beck and call.

That is the heart of the problem. Greedy unions "negotiating" with people they put into office. The only ones who lose are the sheeple, who have to pay for it.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Defense is a federal responsibility and has nothing whatsoever to do with states and municipalities finding themselves between a rock and a hard place (cutting services or raising taxes) to meet the obligations they've stupidly taken on to meet the demands of greedy employee unions.

If you want to discuss defense spending then please do so in a way that comports with reality. Don't just riffle through your supply of bumper stickers to find one that makes your "point." Start with His Doneness spending about a trillion bucks to provide "shovel ready" jobs to his union goon supporters. The phrase "jobs created or saved" is one of the most dishonest in recent decades. Just like his phony manipulation of demand with "cash for clunkers."

States and municipalities got themselves into this mess by repeatedly caving in to unions when times were good. Well, the times aren't so good anymore, but the states and municipalities still have trillions of dollars in obligations to their employees (and those obligations are growing every day) even as their revenues decline. Blame it on Donald Rumsfeld if it makes you feel better. But folks all across this nation, and in liberal Wisconsin, are beginning to come to the realization that we can't sustain this madness any more. Most Americans would be willing to pay more in taxes to maintain government services, but not the lifestyles and gold plated benefit plans of overpaid employees.

Ummm...the point was how else to cut government spending. I answered that question.

I've no interest in chasing you on your tirade...to cut some government services, while protecting others you seem to prefer.

 

[unofan]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I would love to hear what you pro-union people suggest should be done to solve all these budget problems, seriously? Turn on the news and all that you see is that cities and towns from coast to coast are on the brink of bankruptcy under the crushing pressure of skyrocketing public employee, pay, pensions, healthcare costs, benefits, etc. This isn't a myth, it's black and white - and Stockton, CA is next. So all kidding aside, when town finance managers insist that they just cannot keep up with these rising costs, what do you suggest? I suppose the only thing you CAN suggest is raise taxes, but get real, that's pretty darn selfish. So again, what's the fix? I'm all ears?

Wait, wait, wait...

Arguing for paying taxes is now selfish? On what planet is asking everyone, inlcuding yourself (in the royal sense), to pitch more into the common pool and keep less for your own private stash "selfish"?

I don't think that word means what you think it means. Of course, you think driving around in a 12-year old camry is lavish. Either you're dirt poor, or you have no grasp of the English language.

 

[XYZ]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Ummm...the point was how else to cut government spending. I answered that question.

I've no interest in chasing you on your tirade...to cut some government services, while protecting others you seem to prefer.

The problem here is that you tied defense spending into it and have failed to explain what that possibly has to do with state budgets.

If you're contending that it's pointless to gripe about some aspect of state spending while we spend an exorbitant amount on defense I'm with you on that one on principle -- at least as it pertains to the exorbitant amount we spend on defense, but your problem here is that defense spending has nothing (or very little) to do with state X trying to straighten its own house. I have little care for how a state might go about such a thing, and I don't even care much about the mechanics of this recall, but what possibly made you bring up defense spending to try to prove your point? It's about as irrelevant as it gets.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

States and municipalities got themselves into this mess by repeatedly caving in to unions when times were good.

For the sake of the argument it would be interesting to compare spending on state-funded unions as a percentage of budget to say the military federally. Before you go off I am not ranting against military spending per se and it's somewhat apples to oranges, but for the sake of claiming unions are driving us closer to Greece (not your take I believe) I think it begs the question.

The problem here is that you tied defense spending into it and have failed to explain what that possibly has to do with state budgets.

Are you really arguing that cuts in federal funding at the state level have no impact on state budgets?