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Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

This comes as no surprise. :mad:

amherstblackbear said:
I thought Ed wasn't on for another 45 minutes. Figured he'd be the only one whose reaction would be worth seeing.
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I was hoping his head would explode, but no such luck! :D

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HY-03vYYAjA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

:rolleyes:

I take it you've never been on Free Republic?

Stupidity and violence are non-partisan.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Not going to read through the whole thread, so apologies if I reiterate anything....

Unions right now have the same problem the Democratic party did back in the early 2000's. Basically, when you sit back and do nothing while your opponents set the narrative, pretty soon their take on you is going to be the public's perception. People agreeing with you (unions should have bargaining rights in this case) isn't necessarily enough to get them to the polls in greater #'s than the opposition. So for example, one of the posters out here (might be carltonsomethingorother) is out hitting the usual absurd talking points. Secretaries making 100K. Millions of dollars of benefits. Teachers getting fat raises every year. Very little of this is true, but its oft repeated. Worse, there's no counter argument out of the other side. The notion that teachers are overcompensated because they get 1M in health benefits in retirement sounds excessive....until you consider that almost all Americans get that very same amount of coverage in retirement if they 30 years after they stop working. Its not up to internet posters with no stake in this fight to make that point; its the unions themselves who need to run ads and get out in the community and make that point. So far, I've seen no effort to do so.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

FreshFish said:
That's one of the things that made the TEA Party movement so refreshing. Whether you agree with any of their specific policies or not, it is a true grass-roots' revolution of ordinary people organizing together and demanding to be heard.
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HA_HA_HA,_OH_WOW.jpg


Maybe for the first week it existed.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Rover said:
People agreeing with you (unions should have bargaining rights in this case) isn't necessarily enough to get them to the polls in greater #'s than the opposition.
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Except that there is no opposition to the statement that "unions should have bargaining rights."
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

geezer said:
Except that there is no opposition to the statement that "unions should have bargaining rights."
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Exactly, the public sector unions in Wisconsin still have bargaining rights over working conditions; their right to bargain wages and benefits has been curtailed, no other rights were "taken away" except mandatory dues collection from all.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

There were so many "highlights" on MSNBC (I would have watched if they were PPV) let's see:

They breathlessly announced as the post voting coverage got underway: "it's too close to call." With the obligatory references to "staying up all night." 49 minutes later, NBC calls it for Walker.

Then they optimistically reported that Barrett wasn't throwing in the towel, these things can change (Florida in '00) besides there are a lot of votes in Milwaukee to be counted. 18 minutes later he conceded.

Then the narrative shifted to "the really big winner tonight was His Oneness" because the exit polls showed him beating Romney. Really? The same exit polls that showed it "too close to call?" Those exit polls?

The cherry on the sundae came from Maddow, who on at least two occasions, tried to link Romney to the apparant fact that at one of his fundraising venues in Texas, there was on display an autographed copy of "Mein Kampf" and a watercolor or two by you-know-who. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Who knew that Romney was Ralph Englestadt?

A terrific night of fun, spin and balderdash. This was a huge kick in the gonads for Democrats, Wisconsin limo libs, the union movement and His Panderness, don't kid yourself. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
 
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Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

ScoobyDoo said:
Sure. The destruction of the middle class is fine. Just don't tax a job creator.
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You misunderstood. I'm saying that nobody is against unions, in general, having bargaining rights. That's not at all what the WI fiasco was about. Although the public sector labor unions there were forced to accept some accountability to their bosses (the public sector) rather than providing their own "oversight" from within. It's not nearly the same thing.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

geezer said:
You misunderstood. I'm saying that nobody is against unions, in general, having bargaining rights. That's not at all what the WI fiasco was about. Although the public sector labor unions there were forced to accept some accountability to their bosses (the public sector) rather than providing their own "oversight" from within. It's not nearly the same thing.
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No. I don't misunderstand. I just know what the facts are and what the chart of the past 30 years looks like.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Um, I'm pretty sure galley slaves are an argument for why we need unions...
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

FreshFish said:
Exactly, the public sector unions in Wisconsin still have bargaining rights over working conditions; their right to bargain wages and benefits has been curtailed, no other rights were "taken away" except mandatory dues collection from all.
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Could you cite some source for this info? Everything I've seen published in the paper here in Wisconsin stated that the only thing the union could still bargain was wage increases, and that those would be limited to the cost of living. You also keep stating that there were union dues taken from all employees, which is simply untrue. The vast majority of administrative employees in union represented positions were not members of the union and did not pay dues. Granted, blue collar employees have long been fair share, and paid dues whether a member or not, and new administrative hires would also pay dues. The last I knew the courts said that the state would have to continue to collect union dues automatically from a member's paycheck.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Old Pio said:
Geez, I'd like to have ten bucks for every time one of these lib crepe hangers mentioned the Citizens United decision.
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...a decision that only applies to federal election law, and has no bearing whatsoever on spending in Wisconsin state elections.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

FreshFish said:
...a decision that only applies to federal election law, and has no bearing whatsoever on spending in Wisconsin state elections.
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I'm curious as to your legal logic as to why the reasoning used for federal election law does not also apply to state election law, given that the states also subject to the First Amendment. A decision on a federal law may very well create precedent for similar rulings on similar state laws.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Craig P. said:
I'm curious as to your legal logic as to why the reasoning used for federal election law does not also apply to state election law, given that the states also subject to the First Amendment. A decision on a federal law may very well create precedent for similar rulings on similar state laws.
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Sure...

But the fact of the matter is, in this specific case, of the millions of dollars spent in this election, guess how many of those dollars could have been spent pre-Citizens United?

100% of them.

That decision had nowt to do with Wisconsin spending.
 
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Rover said:
People agreeing with you (unions should have bargaining rights in this case) isn't necessarily enough to get them to the polls in greater #'s than the opposition.
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But did people agree with them? Polls seemed to say no. Exits here:

Support Limiting Collective Bargaining: 52%
Oppose Limiting Collective Bargaining: 47%

Which seems awfully close to the final horse-race numbers, hey? I think it's whistling past the graveyard to some extent for the takeaway to be "People agreed with us, they just didn't vote". It's not like Walker won 'cause liberals stayed home.
 
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