What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

[OnMAA]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

Second, and maybe more importantly is the loss of perceived invincibility. Teams that play Minnesota now are just as aware of the streak as Minnesota's team is. When you don't lose, sometimes the other team just doesn't believe they can win.

Very true. Proven fact that at top levels, the factor to succeed is 90% mental. This is why certain streaks between certain teams seem to last seemingly forever with no other plausible explanation than a hex by one team over another.

Remember many years ago one person had never beaten me head to head (Track), even though on paper I was on the declining part while he was on the rising part of his career, and he was better than me on paper, as he was the "new guy to watch out for" as per some pundits. It took him another three years and many head to head battles before he finally beat me. In several instances, I overcame a deficit late to continue that streak by employing cagey racing tactics. I was proud of being "the old man" keeping that streak going for that long. He learned, and finally beat me to the wire one day to win a race where I was the defending champ going in, but ran out of gas when it counted.

 

[ARM]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

I'd emphasize that motivation is art rather than science.

It has to be both. That is the beauty of the creation in which we live -- at some point, the art has to exist in the science that composes the brain. How, we don't know, or at least, I surely don't.

And I think that this a much larger factor than the "lose one, and things may fall apart," point from your earlier post.

That point was more that there is no assurance that a loss will immediately be followed by a string of wins. If one loss occurs because a team was outplayed, it could conceivably be outplayed in the next game and the next.

At the risk of putting words in your mouth...

Feel free. You've posted many words that I'd be proud to claim.

... your argument seems to be that the team-wide positive belief is so valuable, it outweighs any negatives associated with the win streak.

And as I said, I didn't start out thinking that, but that opinion is slowly evolving in my mind based on weekly evidence.

 

[Eeyore]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

At the risk of putting words in your mouth, your argument seems to be that the team-wide positive belief is so valuable, it outweighs any negatives associated with the win streak. I have to admit that I find that pretty persuasive.

I cannot speak for ARM but I would phrase this a little differently. My belief is that the team-wide positive believe might be so valuable that it outweighs any negatives associated with the win streak. It might not. And it isn't possible for anyone to tell whether it is or not until after the streak ends. Different teams react differently and no one (at least as of now) really knows enough about psychology to make any useful predictions about which is which. My suspicion is that ARM's assessment is the correct one; what I've seen from the team suggests to me that most of the time it feeds off of the streak rather than struggling with it. Most of the time. During the first two rounds of last year's NCAA tournament I thought it weighed on them but that's also useless as a prediction about whether it would be true if they reach that point this year.

So my advice is for Gopher fans to just enjoy the streak while it lasts. Since I am enjoying it and since I have no idea how it will play out in the future, I'd just as soon make it last as long as possible.

 

[mnpokecheck]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

Every win brings more coverage and mention on cable and print for womens hockey.....I think we should be hoping for another 60 consecutive wins.....for the sake of womens hockey.

 

[ARM]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

During the first two rounds of last year's NCAA tournament I thought it weighed on them but that's also useless as a prediction about whether it would be true if they reach that point this year.

It could have been the streak, or it could have been the pressure to reach the championship game of a Frozen Four it was hosting. The 2010 team struggled to play well in the NCAA tournament also, minus a streak. And even though they didn't play great through much of the quarter and semi in March, I thought the Gophers were the team that was really taking over just before scoring the winning goal. At crunch time, if the streak didn't aid their effort, at least they were able to move beyond it.

 

[ManBehindTheCurtain]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

It could have been the streak, or it could have been the pressure to reach the championship game of a Frozen Four it was hosting. The 2010 team struggled to play well in the NCAA tournament also, minus a streak. And even though they didn't play great through much of the quarter and semi in March, I thought the Gophers were the team that was really taking over just before scoring the winning goal. At crunch time, if the streak didn't aid their effort, at least they were able to move beyond it.

Geez, ARM, I didn't follow that at all.

2010? Isn't that the Larocque comes back for the second half after being cut from the Canada Olympic team and totally changes the dynamic of the league season? Minnesota the best team of the first half, but UMD the best team of the second half? If you could explain a bit more what you mean about "streak" and "crunch time" but for right now I am just not getting it.

 

[ManBehindTheCurtain]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

OK, wait, I get it now. Mostly you are talking about the 2013 team. I was reading it as about the 2010 team.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

There is no rational reason to think that a Minnesota loss, and the loss of whatever pressure is associated with continuing that streak, would be good for the team in the long run.

The winning streak does two things which enhances Minnesota's chances. One, it continues to put pressure on Minnesota to perform at it's highest level, and never give up. That added incentive has probably resulted in an occasional win, like this last weekend, where under different circumstances (i.e. no winning streak), and with less "on the line" a comeback might not have been achieved.

Second, and maybe more importantly is the loss of perceived invincibility. Teams that play Minnesota now are just as aware of the streak as Minnesota's team is. When you don't lose, sometimes the other team just doesn't believe they can win.

Take a look at the UCLA men's basketball and Connecticut women's basketball winning streaks as classic examples. They were invincible teams, coming off successive championships. Until the streak ended. Neither went on to win the national championship the year the streak ended even though both had powerhouse teams. Teams were no longer convinced of their invincibility.

These are two excellent examples supporting the idea that a win streak can have an impact on a team's results. Yes, the impact is positive in both your examples. But why conclude that the only possible impact is positive? Consider this comment from Eeyore:

I cannot speak for ARM but I would phrase this a little differently. My belief is that the team-wide positive believe might be so valuable that it outweighs any negatives associated with the win streak. It might not. And it isn't possible for anyone to tell whether it is or not until after the streak ends. Different teams react differently and no one (at least as of now) really knows enough about psychology to make any useful predictions about which is which. My suspicion is that ARM's assessment is the correct one; what I've seen from the team suggests to me that most of the time it feeds off of the streak rather than struggling with it. Most of the time. During the first two rounds of last year's NCAA tournament I thought it weighed on them but that's also useless as a prediction about whether it would be true if they reach that point this year...

Eeyore argues that a win streak can "weigh on" a team, a negative impact. He goes on to suggest that the same streak can have a varying impact on a team from time to time, even shifting from negative to positive. I believe he's correct on both counts.

FWIW, I do agree that all this will be clearer in hindsight. After all, the story is still unfolding. Without all the facts in front of us, we're just indulging in preliminary guesswork. And yet this strikes me as a perfectly appropriate topic for a message board...

 

[OnMAA]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

2010? Isn't that the Larocque comes back for the second half after being cut from the Canada Olympic team and totally changes the dynamic of the league season?

Given yesterdays news from Alberta, chance of history repeating itself 4 years later ?.

 

[ARM]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

Given yesterdays news from Alberta, chance of history repeating itself 4 years later ?.

In terms of Lacquette joining the Bulldogs midseason, yes. Coach Miller indicated as much last month. I don't see No. 88 alone being able to elevate UMD above the other teams in the conference and the country. There's always a chance, but I see it as being very slim.

 

[D2D]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

These are two excellent examples supporting the idea that a win streak can have an impact on a team's results. Yes, the impact is positive in both your examples. But why conclude that the only possible impact is positive? Consider this comment from Eeyore:

Eeyore argues that a win streak can "weigh on" a team, a negative impact. He goes on to suggest that the same streak can have a varying impact on a team from time to time, even shifting from negative to positive. I believe he's correct on both counts.

FWIW, I do agree that all this will be clearer in hindsight. After all, the story is still unfolding. Without all the facts in front of us, we're just indulging in preliminary guesswork. And yet this strikes me as a perfectly appropriate topic for a message board...

I think something everyone can agree on is that so far the impact has been positive.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

Overall, yes of course.

But I attended the FF at Ridder, and my perception of the MN/BC semi-final matched Eeyore's description of the first two rounds -- that the streak was weighing on the Gophers. By game's end, the Gophers overcame that obstacle. Then, the performance in the title game was a tour-de-force.

Naturally other factors could be responsible for the tentative play I observed. The high importance of a national semi-final or the huge home crowd could also make a team a bit tight. And has been suggested in multiple posts, proving which of these intangibles mattered most is difficult to impossible.

All I'm really saying is that "playing not to lose" is a plausible response to a notable win streak, or even simply being the favored team. I'm genuinely surprised that anyone would disagree with that, even if only indirectly.

 

[ARM]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

Naturally other factors could be responsible for the tentative play I observed.

One factor versus BC was that UM was coming off a game of nearly six periods. Cornell started slowly in a FF semi the year before under similar circumstances. I thought the Gophers were tight, but they also seemed to have trouble getting their legs going. The other factor is that Kessel was slowly playing her way back after being out for a few games. She still wasn't 100% against BU, but that was by far the best she'd looked since her last injury.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

All excellent points.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

In terms of Lacquette joining the Bulldogs midseason, yes. Coach Miller indicated as much last month. I don't see No. 88 alone being able to elevate UMD above the other teams in the conference and the country. There's always a chance, but I see it as being very slim.

one defender, even if it were Bobby Orr in his prime couldn't fix what is wrong with the Bulldogs

 

[CrazyDave]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

one defender, even if it were Bobby Orr in his prime couldn't fix what is wrong with the Bulldogs

This made me .

 

[D2D]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

Finally getting their due in the local press?

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/232001061.html?page=all&prepage=1&c=y#continue

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

One factor versus BC was that UM was coming off a game of nearly six periods.

Come on now. I'm so tired of hearing this talking point come up. It's making excuses and even moreso disrespects a BC team that played their best game possibly ever.

The 3OT game was a WEEK prior. On your own ice. And so was the game against BC. Your girls literally played a hockey game and then went back to their dorm rooms to sleep, and then slept 6 more times in those same dorm rooms before playing BC a WEEK later.

Fatigue had absolutely nothing to do with it; I'm sorry. Where's the excuse for NoDak taking you guys to 3OT? Was Minnesota starting to get exhausted of not having to travel anywhere to play hockey -- seeing as how the WCHA tournament last year was (are you kidding me??) ALSO at Ridder Arena, putting every single Gopher game in the month of March on their home ice?

Sorry. That "Minnesota was tired from playing 3OT" argument really sets me off.

 

[sfo19]

Come on now. I'm so tired of hearing this talking point come up. It's making excuses and even moreso disrespects a BC team that played their best game possibly ever.

The 3OT game was a WEEK prior. On your own ice. And so was the game against BC. Your girls literally played a hockey game and then went back to their dorm rooms to sleep, and then slept 6 more times in those same dorm rooms before playing BC a WEEK later.

Fatigue had absolutely nothing to do with it; I'm sorry. Where's the excuse for NoDak taking you guys to 3OT? Was Minnesota starting to get exhausted of not having to travel anywhere to play hockey -- seeing as how the WCHA tournament last year was (are you kidding me??) ALSO at Ridder Arena, putting every single Gopher game in the month of March on their home ice?

Sorry. That "Minnesota was tired from playing 3OT" argument really sets me off.

I don't normally agree with BC fans, but this is all spot on.

 

[ARM]

Re: What team ends the Minnesota winning streak?

Fatigue had absolutely nothing to do with it; I'm sorry. ...
Sorry. That "Minnesota was tired from playing 3OT" argument really sets me off.

Did I say tired or fatigued? No, you did. I said they didn't have good legs early, and it looked to me like they didn't. When I spoke to the team earlier in the week, I heard comments like, "It felt like I got hit by a train." Given you can't even add the number of nights between Saturday and Friday correctly I am going to put more stock in what they said at the time than what you say now.

As for fatigue, I thought there were BC players that looked fatigued late in the semi, Bolden in particular. Maybe she'd been asked to skate too many shifts down the stretch and it all caught up with her, I don't know. It's not an excuse. Team's have so much energy to burn over the course of the season and they make countless choices about how they are going to expend it. If it takes Minnesota 3OTs to beat UND and the Gophers can't bounce back in time for their next game, then too bad for them.

My comment was in relation to whether or not Minnesota was tight/nervous or if there were other reasons why they played better at the end of the BC game than early. I stand by my comments. If you choose to be "set off", that's your choice. But if you want to debate it, stick to statements I've made and some semblance of facts, like now many days it is from Saturday to Friday.