Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

[sshablak]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Which sort of explains the Western run of success in recent tournaments.

How can you say that, Eau Claire only had "nine" former D1 players ?

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

i dont think having them,D1 players are going to hurt you,especially when they are btwn the pipes as well.

 

[Bennycheck]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

How can you say that, Eau Claire only had "nine" former D1 players ?

Don't kid yourself. The east does it too. Ask Beany at Midd. I know for a fact that 1 of his players on the last NC team was offered a full ride to Harvard but decided he'd rather go to Midd. He wasn't the only one. I'm not saying they're doing anything wrong getting these players, just that you need a few IMO if you want to make a deep run into the playoffs. I think Eau Claire only had 7, but what's a few DI's between friends.

 

[admiral0417]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

People get so hung up on a label of "DI" as compared to "D3". I can't tell you how many guys Plattsburgh has had over the years who were surefire "D1" caliber players. Dozens and dozens. I have also seen many players who had D1 experience and scholarships prior to arriving at the D3 level that were nothing more than average players at this level. Sure there are exceptions (including our current goaltender). But by and large, they are not head and shoulders above the players already here.

When I watch D1 games, I wonder how in the world some of these players were selected over some of the better d3 players. I would like someone to explain to me how guys like Jon Whitelaw, Nick Rolls, Paul Rodrigues, Pier-Olivier Cotnoir, etc could not have been impact players on the D1 level. I'll spare the names of D1 players who have "dropped down" to D3 and accomplished little. My conclusion is the best D1 players would destroy D3 competition. But the mid to lower level D1 players would hardly stick out. Conversely, our great D3 players could stick with all but a few programs and contribute.

 

[UCBadger]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Doesn't size have a lot to do with it (as it does in lacrosse, too)? I was surprised how big Zelzer looked in the handshake line after his first start. One of the comments by the folks on TV about the U18 team was that they really looked "big."

 

[Bennycheck]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

People get so hung up on a label of "DI" as compared to "D3". I can't tell you how many guys Plattsburgh has had over the years who were surefire "D1" caliber players. Dozens and dozens. I have also seen many players who had D1 experience and scholarships prior to arriving at the D3 level that were nothing more than average players at this level. Sure there are exceptions (including our current goaltender). But by and large, they are not head and shoulders above the players already here.

When I watch D1 games, I wonder how in the world some of these players were selected over some of the better d3 players. I would like someone to explain to me how guys like Jon Whitelaw, Nick Rolls, Paul Rodrigues, Pier-Olivier Cotnoir, etc could not have been impact players on the D1 level. I'll spare the names of D1 players who have "dropped down" to D3 and accomplished little. My conclusion is the best D1 players would destroy D3 competition. But the mid to lower level D1 players would hardly stick out. Conversely, our great D3 players could stick with all but a few programs and contribute.

I don't think people get hung up with the labels, it's just that someone along the way thought a kid was good enough to play DI. Anyone can excxel at any level and vise versa. As I said, the kid I knew decided to play at Midd (much to his fathers horror) instead of Harvard. He did great and won a national championship. Not many people can say that in any sport. One of the things I miss is a yearly game that use to be played between Colgate and Hamilton College. They stopped it a long time ago, but it was one of the most exciting games to watch each season and the student bodys from both schools showed up in mass. Colgate won almost all of them, but I do remember the ones Hamilton won to this day. I'm talking the 70's here so it does go back a ways. That's the same feeling I got watching UC beat the U18 team. I watched the Colgate game vs UMass last Sunday. The skill level is better overall, but I agree with you that there are some duds playing that would probably be duds at the DIII level too. I don't think the team with the most DI transfers is going to be better that one with none, anymore that I buy the team with the most Canadians is better that one with none.

 

[admiral0417]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Size is certainly a factor during the recruiting process. Academics as well. I wonder why a kid with some talent would want to play at a poor DI program instead of a Oswego/Norwich/Utica/Platty/St.Norbert, etc....What's the fun in playing on a team that goes 2-30 (see Sacred Heart) and plays in front of 250 people?? Just so you can say you played DI hockey? I guess so. Why else? I don't think the degree is that prestigious in most cases.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Size is certainly a factor during the recruiting process. Academics as well. I wonder why a kid with some talent would want to play at a poor DI program instead of a Oswego/Norwich/Utica/Platty/St.Norbert, etc....What's the fun in playing on a team that goes 2-30 (see Sacred Heart) and plays in front of 250 people?? Just so you can say you played DI hockey? I guess so. Why else? I don't think the degree is that prestigious in most cases.

Not so sure some of those guys could make a regular top tier DIII lineup.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Since you quoted him, it certainly appears you are singling him out.
Most reasonable people would see NUProf's comments as generic and regarding a particular goaltending style, not in reference to any particular team or keeper. Conspiracy theorists, however, seem to take umbrage whenever possible.

I quoted Prof for the sake of context alone. (At least he provides substantial posts from time to time, and isn't here just for the sole purpose of dumping on UC.)

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Agree. According to the roster, the difference is 2" and 20 lbs., but Zelzer looks so much bigger than Therrian on the ice which obviously helps for a goalie as long as he can move and react which he does quite well. I can see why he was a D-I recruit.

I'm not surprised to hear that; do you know which D-1 schools tendered him offers?

(That's one thing about playing goal; there are too few plum-jobs to go around, and some really talented guys get lost in the shuffle at times.)

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

I don't think people get hung up with the labels, it's just that someone along the way thought a kid was good enough to play DI. Anyone can excxel at any level and vise versa. As I said, the kid I knew decided to play at Midd (much to his fathers horror) instead of Harvard. He did great and won a national championship. Not many people can say that in any sport. One of the things I miss is a yearly game that use to be played between Colgate and Hamilton College. They stopped it a long time ago, but it was one of the most exciting games to watch each season and the student bodys from both schools showed up in mass. Colgate won almost all of them, but I do remember the ones Hamilton won to this day. I'm talking the 70's here so it does go back a ways. That's the same feeling I got watching UC beat the U18 team. I watched the Colgate game vs UMass last Sunday. The skill level is better overall, but I agree with you that there are some duds playing that would probably be duds at the DIII level too. I don't think the team with the most DI transfers is going to be better that one with none, anymore that I buy the team with the most Canadians is better that one with none.

The line between D-1 and D-3 (and even within D-1) is certainly getting blurry these days, no doubt about it... What used to be a gaping chasm is now looking more like a reasonable distance to cross.

I talk to D-1 scouts as often as I see them -they stick out at games like sore thumbs- and they all say that size is not the be-all/end-all any more, while citing the Giontas, Gerbes, and the belated return of St. Louis from Europe. The little guys can make huge impacts in the NHL now that interference is actually being called, and these guys say that nobody with potential escapes attention, no matter where they play.

The empirical evidence to the contrary suggests otherwise, though... Guess we'll see in the next several years. (I can honestly say that I haven't seen anybody at the D-3 level who plays well enough in both ends to even approach what's required in the NHL in that regard.)

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Doesn't size have a lot to do with it (as it does in lacrosse, too)? I was surprised how big Zelzer looked in the handshake line after his first start. One of the comments by the folks on TV about the U18 team was that they really looked "big."

I've always been told by coaches, recruiters, players etc. that normally a lot of the guys that end up playing D3 instead of D1 are "missing something" whether it be size, skating ability, grades, injury riddled, etc.

Look at Keith Aucoin, he's been doubted at every level he has played at because of his size and he has produced at EVERY level he has played at, including the NHL last year with the Isles and with the Caps.

 

[LakerEagleLover]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

I've always been told by coaches, recruiters, players etc. that normally a lot of the guys that end up playing D3 instead of D1 are "missing something" whether it be size, skating ability, grades, injury riddled, etc.

Look at Keith Aucoin, he's been doubted at every level he has played at because of his size and he has produced at EVERY level he has played at, including the NHL last year with the Isles and with the Caps.

From Today's NYTimes - http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/20/sports/hockey/youth-and-the-ice-siren.html?ref=sports

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

People get so hung up on a label of "DI" as compared to "D3". I can't tell you how many guys Plattsburgh has had over the years who were surefire "D1" caliber players. Dozens and dozens. I have also seen many players who had D1 experience and scholarships prior to arriving at the D3 level that were nothing more than average players at this level. Sure there are exceptions (including our current goaltender). But by and large, they are not head and shoulders above the players already here.

When I watch D1 games, I wonder how in the world some of these players were selected over some of the better d3 players. I would like someone to explain to me how guys like Jon Whitelaw, Nick Rolls, Paul Rodrigues, Pier-Olivier Cotnoir, etc could not have been impact players on the D1 level. I'll spare the names of D1 players who have "dropped down" to D3 and accomplished little. My conclusion is the best D1 players would destroy D3 competition. But the mid to lower level D1 players would hardly stick out. Conversely, our great D3 players could stick with all but a few programs and contribute.

+1 totally agree as a player from the past we have a few D1 guys come to Oz when I was there,a few were middle of the road guys and a few were in the top 3 or 4 lets say.The Admiral has it correct,nuff said about it.

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Size is certainly a factor during the recruiting process. Academics as well. I wonder why a kid with some talent would want to play at a poor DI program instead of a Oswego/Norwich/Utica/Platty/St.Norbert, etc....What's the fun in playing on a team that goes 2-30 (see Sacred Heart) and plays in front of 250 people?? Just so you can say you played DI hockey? I guess so. Why else? I don't think the degree is that prestigious in most cases.

I never understood that as well,hey it was fun skating out on the ice in front of a packed house at Romney,and a packed house at The Ronald B .My 1st time on the ice at Romney the crowd was doing the Miller Lite taste great--less filling chant,it was sooooo loud I could not even understand the chant,had to ask a senior what they were saying . When we showed up 3hrs early for the NC game at Platty the place was packed with 4000? people playing with beach balls,not gonna get that at AIC ,Sacret heart and about a dozen or so D1s..who knows??...but hey there is also the cooler

 

[jcase]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

I'm not surprised to hear that; do you know which D-1 schools tendered him offers?

(That's one thing about playing goal; there are too few plum-jobs to go around, and some really talented guys get lost in the shuffle at times.)

Zelzer had committed to Michigan Tech in May but had a delay gaining NCAA clearance. Prior to him being cleared to play, MT took a commitment from another goalie and he ended up at UC.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

Zelzer had committed to Michigan Tech in May but had a delay gaining NCAA clearance. Prior to him being cleared to play, MT took a commitment from another goalie and he ended up at UC.

Looks to me that MTU's loss is Utica's gain.

I'm really happy to have him on-board, since next year's UC team will likely need great 'tending if it expects to succeed.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

I never understood that as well,hey it was fun skating out on the ice in front of a packed house at Romney,and a packed house at The Ronald B .My 1st time on the ice at Romney the crowd was doing the Miller Lite taste great--less filling chant,it was sooooo loud I could not even understand the chant,had to ask a senior what they were saying . When we showed up 3hrs early for the NC game at Platty the place was packed with 4000? people playing with beach balls,not gonna get that at AIC ,Sacret heart and about a dozen or so D1s..who knows??...but hey there is also the cooler

I did a *little* research re: D-1 v. D-3 attendance, while expecting to thereby support your point, and I was a bit surprised to see the 2012/2013 numbers on here.

True enough, AIC and Sacred Heart drew miniscule crowds, but there were very few D-1 teams which had fared so badly in that regard. (Utica, which lead D-3 in attendance last year, would have finished 20th by a wide margin had they played in D-1, and there were very few D-3 teams that would have cracked the top-35 in D-1 last year in terms of attendance.)

Still, who cares..? D-3 hockey is great fun to watch, and it's nice not to worry about getting a perfect seat on the road, let-alone getting any seat in the first place. I don't need a big crowd on hand to get me interested in a hockey game.

 

[LakerEagleLover]

Re: Utica College Pioneers '13-'14 = Lewiston or Bust

I did a *little* research re: D-1 v. D-3 attendance, while expecting to thereby support your point, and I was a bit surprised to see the 2012/2013 numbers on here.

True enough, AIC and Sacred Heart drew miniscule crowds, but there were very few D-1 teams which had fared so badly in that regard. (Utica, which lead D-3 in attendance last year, would have finished 20th by a wide margin had they played in D-1, and there were very few D-3 teams that would have cracked the top-35 in D-1 last year in terms of attendance.)

Still, who cares..? D-3 hockey is great fun to watch, and it's nice not to worry about getting a perfect seat on the road, let-alone getting any seat in the first place. I don't need a big crowd on hand to get me interested in a hockey game.

D1 has 34 rinks with listed capacity of 3,500 or better...other than The Aud, I am not aware of any D3 rink above 3,500 (even if you sent the local fire marshall on vacation)...so that affects the analysis, but not the discussion - I also prefer the "intimacy" of D3 hockey

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

D1 has 34 rinks with listed capacity of 3,500 or better...other than The Aud, I am not aware of any D3 rink above 3,500 (even if you sent the local fire marshall on vacation)...so that affects the analysis, but not the discussion - I also prefer the "intimacy" of D3 hockey

I believe St. Thomas or St. John's still play in a rink they share with a D1 team, maybe St. Cloud? And that rink sits 4 or 6,000 I think. Back in the early 2000's that game would push capacity too between USJ and UST If I recall correctly.