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Unrest in Egypt

  • Thread starter Thread starter Priceless
  • Start date Start date
Re: Unrest in Egypt

LPC: In Zamalek - people find SECURITY ID's on the looters

Edit: Handy, they just showed that footage again. I missed it the first time b/c I was at lunch. Amazing video.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

I can only hope the new regime is friendly with the rest of the world and isn't some Iranian wannabe. I realize the situations are different, but Egypt's economy is propped up by foreign aid and tourism. Kill those off and uh oh...
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

Handyman said:
And I am sorry but the U.S. should be 100% behind the people on this. Is there a possibility it could lead to a bad leader, of course. But this is people fighting for their rights as citizens, looking for liberty. I always thought that was what this country stood for, not hedging our bets in the hopes that whoever wins likes us. :rolleyes: When did we become the kid with self-esteem issues just looking for anyone who will be our friend?
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Uh, its always been like this... why do you think we favored a dictator in the first place... better this dictator than others. Democracy is always the ideal, but organizations such as the Muslim Brotherhood are rather built up and influential. If there isn't time for a government to settle down prior to elections one could see the MB rise to power, possibly by force. Time will be needed for moderate parties (and, no, the Muslim Brotherhood is not a moderate organization) to take hold. The MB has become an international organization and is flush with cash, the same will not be true for any Eygptian non-religious party.

I'm not as optimistic as others in the result. But, if they can engineer their way to a peaceful democracy then I wish them all the luck in the world.
 
Patman said:
Uh, its always been like this... why do you think we favored a dictator in the first place... better this dictator than others. Democracy is always the ideal, but organizations such as the Muslim Brotherhood are rather built up and influential. If there isn't time for a government to settle down prior to elections one could see the MB rise to power, possibly by force. Time will be needed for moderate parties (and, no, the Muslim Brotherhood is not a moderate organization) to take hold. The MB has become an international organization and is flush with cash, the same will not be true for any Eygptian
non-religious party.

I'm not as optimistic as others in the result. But, if they can engineer their way to a peaceful democracy then I wish them all the luck in the world.
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Yeah, the one thing that egypt has going for it that with all of the tourists it gets, it's been a little more exposed to more western ideas. And with the more modern communication thanks to the Internet and all, that would be the one think that could keep a group like the Muslim Brotherhood from taking over by force. They would really need to win an election to get into power I think. Much like how Hamas did it.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

bigmrg74 said:
Much like how Hamas did it.
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Careful... Hamas only won a legislative election and then essentially constructed a coup d'tat in Gaza. But, yes, I think that general principle (only election you'll ever need scenario) could be in play.
 
Patman said:
Careful... Hamas only won a legislative election and then essentially constructed a coup d'tat in Gaza. But, yes, I think that general principle (only election you'll ever need scenario) could be in play.
Click to expand...
True, but one would think that the Egyptians would be a little more sophisticated that the average Achmed in Gaza. They have been totally shat on for decades. Egypt has had some assemblence of a working government, an decent education system as far as most of the Middle East goes. And a fair amount of non-Muslims in the country as well. The Muslim Brotherhood would likely win a few seats in a legit election, but nowhere near enought that they would have complete control of the government by themselves.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

dxmnkd316 said:
I can only hope the new regime is friendly with the rest of the world and isn't some Iranian wannabe. I realize the situations are different, but Egypt's economy is propped up by foreign aid and tourism. Kill those off and uh oh...
Click to expand...

The situation is actually kind of the same. Iran was a highly educated nation when the Shah fell and so its middle class had a lot to lose from isolation from the west. The Iranian dictator dug his own grave with a brutal secret police and we implicated ourselves by supporting him rather than standing strongly for democracy. If this really was the Arab world's 1989, we would be cast in a role awkwardly similar to the USSR.

But it doesn't have to be that way. Every US administration I can remember has said they were going to change our treatment of the region and replace our support of dictators with an encouragement of democracy, and, well, here's a chance. Rather than dwell on the perennial claim of the supposedly horrific affect of abandoning an ally (something that sounds like a convenient reason to keep up the status quo), we could use this as a "teaching moment" to show other repressive regimes that our price for continuing support is actual reform.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

Not to mention, it can only improve standing with people (note I said people not LEADERS) that tend to think of the U.S. as evil hypocrits out to destroy the muslim world. We should be front and center in support of this revolution. (we should NOT get involved obviously) This is one of those moments where we can actually practice what we preach, make the cynics think twice and turn public opinion around. Most of the people running around in Cairo and Alexandria aren't hardcore Islamists they are just the average citizen looking to make life better and get out from under a oppressive regime...sound familiar?

Yes I know I am acting pie in the sky, but this could completely change the game. Instead of making the same mistake we always make, we can actually make a difference in a positive way for everyone.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

bigmrg74 said:
True, but one would think that the Egyptians would be a little more sophisticated that the average Achmed in Gaza. They have been totally shat on for decades. Egypt has had some assemblence of a working government, an decent education system as far as most of the Middle East goes. And a fair amount of non-Muslims in the country as well. The Muslim Brotherhood would likely win a few seats in a legit election, but nowhere near enought that they would have complete control of the government by themselves.
Click to expand...

We'll see... it looks like they're already fielding a stalking horse candidate in El-Baradei... I'll admit... I have watched very little of this... but regardless of the original mechanisms of things, matters can go all manners of wrong as long as there are money and weapons involved.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

Handyman said:
Not to mention, it can only improve standing with people (note I said people not LEADERS) that tend to think of the U.S. as evil hypocrits out to destroy the muslim world. We should be front and center in support of this revolution. (we should NOT get involved obviously) This is one of those moments where we can actually practice what we preach, make the cynics think twice and turn public opinion around. Most of the people running around in Cairo and Alexandria aren't hardcore Islamists they are just the average citizen looking to make life better and get out from under a oppressive regime...sound familiar?

Yes I know I am acting pie in the sky, but this could completely change the game. Instead of making the same mistake we always make, we can actually make a difference in a positive way for everyone.
Click to expand...

The crowd on AJ was holding signs that read "the real ally is the people of Egypt." They know the narrative. The choice is ours.

It would be indeed ironic if after 2 trillion dollars, thousands of American dead, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead, it turned out to be "Tunisia, the Model." We can undo a lot of damage in the next few months, and we're uniquely positioned to for all sorts of reasons both real and symbolic.
 
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Re: Unrest in Egypt

leswp1 said:
that was yesterday
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And I'd love to know if they were looters or police pretending to be looters, as we're seeing all over Egypt. I'm following a bunch of Egyptian journalists on Twitter and they all agree the security vacuum is not an accident. This was planned by the govt and now the police have dressed up like civilians and are looting and destroying to give the protesters a bad name, try to give Mubarak credibility and spread fear among the protesters. It isn't working.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

Priceless said:
And I'd love to know if they were looters or police pretending to be looters, as we're seeing all over Egypt. I'm following a bunch of Egyptian journalists on Twitter and they all agree the security vacuum is not an accident. This was planned by the govt and now the police have dressed up like civilians and are looting and destroying to give the protesters a bad name, try to give Mubarak credibility and spread fear among the protesters. It isn't working.
Click to expand...

AJ interviewed a suburbanite who was saying at least some government reports of armed gangs in the suburbs were also bogus -- he knew the places that were reported hit and they weren't. It's heartening to see these kinds of tactics fail -- I'm sure they are as old as the hills.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

ElBaradei is now in Tahrir Square, expected to address protesters.

The protest has swelled to several hundred thousand as men are bringing their wives and daughters to the protest as well.
Egyptians say they don't want Mubarak to leave - they want him to face trial in Egypt.
Watch live

Edit:
Nice to see Fox "News" knows what it is talking about
egyptnb.jpg
 
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Re: Unrest in Egypt

Sounds like the Muslim Brotherhood is just as confused as everybody else there in Egypt as to what the heck is going on, and is calling on everybody to keep a level head and to not loot and riot. Sounds like they wanna do this peacefully.
 
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