dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Unrest in Egypt
Who cares who does it? As long as it's not us footing the bill again.
Who cares who does it? As long as it's not us footing the bill again.
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dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Unrest in Egypt
Who cares who does it? As long as it's not us footing the bill again.
Who cares who does it? As long as it's not us footing the bill again.
Re: Unrest in Egypt
I think they're encouraging them to surrender
You have to wonder why everyone is getting their knickers in a twist about a civil war in Libya, and calling for all kinds of intervention when nobody did a #$%@ thing in Liberia, Cote d'Ivoire, Ethiopia, Sudan, etc., etc. Think it has something to do with oil, as opposed to sympathy for the rebels?
I also heard on NPR that the Egyptian army went into Medan Tahrir this morning and tore down the remaining encampments. Many arrested and tortured. Meet the new boss...
I think they're encouraging them to surrender
You have to wonder why everyone is getting their knickers in a twist about a civil war in Libya, and calling for all kinds of intervention when nobody did a #$%@ thing in Liberia, Cote d'Ivoire, Ethiopia, Sudan, etc., etc. Think it has something to do with oil, as opposed to sympathy for the rebels?
I also heard on NPR that the Egyptian army went into Medan Tahrir this morning and tore down the remaining encampments. Many arrested and tortured. Meet the new boss...
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
Re: Unrest in Egypt
You think the man on the street cares about the oil in Libya and not seeing some 40 year reigning tinpot go down? The reason nobody cares about those african nations is because they're never in the news in the first place. So, maybe its oil that puts these tinpots in the news over decades and decades, but I assure you that's not why people want to see them fall.
I think they're encouraging them to surrender
You have to wonder why everyone is getting their knickers in a twist about a civil war in Libya, and calling for all kinds of intervention when nobody did a #$%@ thing in Liberia, Cote d'Ivoire, Ethiopia, Sudan, etc., etc. Think it has something to do with oil, as opposed to sympathy for the rebels?
I also heard on NPR that the Egyptian army went into Medan Tahrir this morning and tore down the remaining encampments. Many arrested and tortured. Meet the new boss...
You think the man on the street cares about the oil in Libya and not seeing some 40 year reigning tinpot go down? The reason nobody cares about those african nations is because they're never in the news in the first place. So, maybe its oil that puts these tinpots in the news over decades and decades, but I assure you that's not why people want to see them fall.
Re: Unrest in Egypt
If the man on the street cared about tinpots going down, he'd also care about some of the places that Hopkinja mentioned.
Libya is compelling because of the combination of history (remember Reagan and Qaddafi's line of death?) and terrorism (e.g., Lockerbie). Sub-Saharan Africa is just less threatening.*
May not apply to sea-goers off the Eastern coast.
If the man on the street cared about tinpots going down, he'd also care about some of the places that Hopkinja mentioned.
Libya is compelling because of the combination of history (remember Reagan and Qaddafi's line of death?) and terrorism (e.g., Lockerbie). Sub-Saharan Africa is just less threatening.*
May not apply to sea-goers off the Eastern coast.
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Unrest in Egypt
Later today to EU leaders French president Nicholas Sarkozy is reportedly going to propose air strikes on Gaddafi's forces.
Later today to EU leaders French president Nicholas Sarkozy is reportedly going to propose air strikes on Gaddafi's forces.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Unrest in Egypt
This is very interesting since France and Italy are the biggest markets for Libyan oil. Somebody in l'administration ran the numbers and decided in the long run it's better to stand with the people. That was not a foregone conclusion.
'Course they may be hoping if the Arabs create an Islamic Paradise in the Maghreb all those immigrants in Paris will go home.
This is very interesting since France and Italy are the biggest markets for Libyan oil. Somebody in l'administration ran the numbers and decided in the long run it's better to stand with the people. That was not a foregone conclusion.
'Course they may be hoping if the Arabs create an Islamic Paradise in the Maghreb all those immigrants in Paris will go home.
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Re: Unrest in Egypt
Unfortunately, very few of the Arabs in France are Libyan. And I can't imagine the Algerians and Moroccans rushing home at the moment.
Not sure if there are a lot of Libyans in Italy. Compared to the other N. African countries, there aren't even a lot of Libyans in Libya. See: Total and Eni.
That may be why it gets attention in the US, but that has nothing to do with why it's on the radar in France and Italy. See: Total and Eni.
Unfortunately, very few of the Arabs in France are Libyan. And I can't imagine the Algerians and Moroccans rushing home at the moment.
Not sure if there are a lot of Libyans in Italy. Compared to the other N. African countries, there aren't even a lot of Libyans in Libya. See: Total and Eni.
That may be why it gets attention in the US, but that has nothing to do with why it's on the radar in France and Italy. See: Total and Eni.
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Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Unrest in Egypt
Interesting idea: a Middle Eastern EU.
Certainly worth exploring as a way to have both democracy and stability.
Interesting idea: a Middle Eastern EU.
Certainly worth exploring as a way to have both democracy and stability.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Unrest in Egypt
I don't think it will happen, but fewer, larger units might be better. Junk the whole thing and have a Congress of Tribes. Freak out Israel, that's for sure.
I don't think it will happen, but fewer, larger units might be better. Junk the whole thing and have a Congress of Tribes. Freak out Israel, that's for sure.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
Re: Unrest in Egypt
Which really, that's what its about for you... I have a hard time it'll be an allegiance of democracies and splits would quickly form on religious lines... much like the problems the EU has had, while they may establish it as a united front against those outside, what will really happen is it would facilitate going after each other. Each faction would leverage and play against each other before the whole organization fractures... worse, by then any national overlaps formed could lead to some level of warfare... of course it may not either... the Arabian nations have had a tendency to outsourcing work to foreigners.... don't know if they'd want to dirty themselves by fighting a war.
I find it very suspicious that a people who can't be "taught democracy" can all of the sudden be done just that... but that's not mine to square since I'm not advancing those ideas over the last decade. I believe that societies are capable of advancing if they so choose it.
That being said, I don't see where the momentum for "democracy" is coming from... while some may agitate for it these things may not be the end result of these cases of unrest... for example, I haven't seen the "rebels" of Yemen call for democracy and a free state. Trust me, I'd love to see it and if the rebels genuinely want to work towards a free democracy then we should be behind them with more than just ethereal moves.
I see a lot of "you know it'd **** off those militaristic old guard Americans and Israelis if..." I find this to be a fantastically dumb principle to rally around as it does not work towards liberty and democracy for the people of these regions. But I know you're going to expose the dark souls in the hierarchies of the US and Israel or something out of a bad 70s or 80s movie.... expose how "we know" how "they really are".... even the idea of the superstate has nothing to do with the peoples of those countries but rather is a move to create penance for perceived sins of other nations. Frankly, I'd rather people care about the expansion of liberty to the peoples of those nations and not some separate agenda that loses sight of this. I mean, isn't it better to see Tunisia/Algeria/Egypt to become like Lebanon w/o the Party of God? I see that as the real goal other than a multinational super-state designed to right the wrongs of "American imperialism".
I don't think it will happen, but fewer, larger units might be better. Junk the whole thing and have a Congress of Tribes. Freak out Israel, that's for sure.
Which really, that's what its about for you... I have a hard time it'll be an allegiance of democracies and splits would quickly form on religious lines... much like the problems the EU has had, while they may establish it as a united front against those outside, what will really happen is it would facilitate going after each other. Each faction would leverage and play against each other before the whole organization fractures... worse, by then any national overlaps formed could lead to some level of warfare... of course it may not either... the Arabian nations have had a tendency to outsourcing work to foreigners.... don't know if they'd want to dirty themselves by fighting a war.
I find it very suspicious that a people who can't be "taught democracy" can all of the sudden be done just that... but that's not mine to square since I'm not advancing those ideas over the last decade. I believe that societies are capable of advancing if they so choose it.
That being said, I don't see where the momentum for "democracy" is coming from... while some may agitate for it these things may not be the end result of these cases of unrest... for example, I haven't seen the "rebels" of Yemen call for democracy and a free state. Trust me, I'd love to see it and if the rebels genuinely want to work towards a free democracy then we should be behind them with more than just ethereal moves.
I see a lot of "you know it'd **** off those militaristic old guard Americans and Israelis if..." I find this to be a fantastically dumb principle to rally around as it does not work towards liberty and democracy for the people of these regions. But I know you're going to expose the dark souls in the hierarchies of the US and Israel or something out of a bad 70s or 80s movie.... expose how "we know" how "they really are".... even the idea of the superstate has nothing to do with the peoples of those countries but rather is a move to create penance for perceived sins of other nations. Frankly, I'd rather people care about the expansion of liberty to the peoples of those nations and not some separate agenda that loses sight of this. I mean, isn't it better to see Tunisia/Algeria/Egypt to become like Lebanon w/o the Party of God? I see that as the real goal other than a multinational super-state designed to right the wrongs of "American imperialism".
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Re: Unrest in Egypt
I'm not sure where this goes, but it might have something to do with the battle for hearts and minds, and definitely needed to be shared:
Al-Qaeda launches 'Jihad Cosmo' magazine
I propose a headline contest, bonus points for double entendres involving weapons, or Charlie Sheen references. bizarro world.
I'm not sure where this goes, but it might have something to do with the battle for hearts and minds, and definitely needed to be shared:
Al-Qaeda launches 'Jihad Cosmo' magazine
I propose a headline contest, bonus points for double entendres involving weapons, or Charlie Sheen references. bizarro world.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Unrest in Egypt
Maybe they are more exposed to democracy, but I'd say past generations, which sacrificed significantly to protect democracy, have more appreciation for democracy.
Maybe they are more exposed to democracy, but I'd say past generations, which sacrificed significantly to protect democracy, have more appreciation for democracy.