Unrest in Egypt

[Patman]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Here's the solution to oil importation:
- switch to electric cars (more efficient than internal combustion, zero emissions from the cars themselves, and some percentage of that power will be renewable via wind/solar)
- increase the use of natural gas (we have a lot of it, prices are low, and companies continue to find more of it)
- increase the use of nuclear (and come up with some agreeable solution to the waste problem)
- increase R&D on synthetic oil production (algae, etc)
- increase R&D on making coal mining/burning as clean as possible since we have a massive amount of it
- drop the dumb*** tariffs so we can import Brazil's ethanol (if we want this as part of the solution as we transition to electric vehicles) rather than relying on our idiotic and wasteful corn-based approach
- raise gas taxes considerably to push both consumers and car manufacturers away from low fuel efficiency vehicles

And btw, I think the price point for profitable oil exploration in deep water wells + oil sands is somewhere in the $80 / barrel range. The problem is that oil prices are extremely volatile, and these projects costs massive sums of money. It'd suck for the companies involved to spend a billion dollars or more developing a field in 5000 feet of water only to find oil prices have dropped back into the $75 / barrel range by the time the production comes on-line. If prices stabilize at $100 for an extended period of time (>2 yrs), you'll see a lot more investment in exploration as companies fight to produce as much as they can with the higher profit margins.

Except for the electric cars bit (from my cold dead hands) I think I could live with that entire slate of things.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Except for the electric cars bit (from my cold dead hands) I think I could live with that entire slate of things.

They are the most practical solution to the highly urbanized areas. Even batteries with just a 40 mile range are sufficient for most urban commutes.

Whatever your solution to the car problem, you have to come up with a way to make this country's vehicles more efficient, since that's where we're consuming the bulk of the oil.

 

[Patman]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

They are the most practical solution to the highly urbanized areas. Even batteries with just a 40 mile range are sufficient for most urban commutes.

Whatever your solution to the car problem, you have to come up with a way to make this country's vehicles more efficient, since that's where we're consuming the bulk of the oil.

Right, for highly urbanized areas for people who accept planes and trains for longer distance travel. Its a niche until it 1) charges faster and 2) provides a longer range.

I know my day to day travel involve going to work, doing errands, heading into DC on occasion... but you know that I'm uncomfortable with being strictly limited from being able to drive home or do whatever I want if the opportunity arises.

Some people may accept such restrictions in their life... if they are, good for them... but when they start putting that on the rest of us... I have nothing but vicious unkind words.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Faster charging and making urban charging stations widely available is something that could certainly be accomplished in the transition period to electric (any switchover wouldn't happen overnight obviously - it'd probably take a decade). There'd still be gas-powered vehicles available - they'd just be more efficient to compensate for the higher gas prices (which is what we're seeing now even without higher gas taxes, unfortunately).

 

[Patman]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Faster charging and making urban charging stations widely available is something that could certainly be accomplished in the transition period to electric (any switchover wouldn't happen overnight obviously - it'd probably take a decade). There'd still be gas-powered vehicles available - they'd just be more efficient to compensate for the higher gas prices (which is what we're seeing now even without higher gas taxes, unfortunately).

oh, i missed the gas tax bit... no sale. Its the same argument... you're inducing a false crisis to make a false moral choice. That's when we head towards goose-step territory.

I'll say this differently now... I don't become too happy when people falsely deny me things that I've worked all my life for... don't expect me or anybody else to take it up the *** for no good reason.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

We'll end up with more efficient vehicles one way or the other - it's just a question of how and when we want to get there. Our approach over the past 20 years has been to simply ride the oil price rollercoaster and make minimal gains on fuel efficiency. With oil prices back at the $100 level even in a not-so-great economy, I'd say the time has come to put a stronger emphasis on this issue as these prices are a serious drag on the US economy. In my view, raising the gas tax will get us there far quicker than waiting for typically-watered-down-and-delayed CAFE standards to take effect.

 

[Twitch Boy]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

All I know is a Prius gets 0 MPG when it's spun backwards into a 3-foot snowdrift.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

They are the most practical solution to the highly urbanized areas. Even batteries with just a 40 mile range are sufficient for most urban commutes.

Whatever your solution to the car problem, you have to come up with a way to make this country's vehicles more efficient, since that's where we're consuming the bulk of the oil.

The country as encouraging that when I was a kid. Then they changed/got rid of all the incentives and we had a virtual explosion of people driving the status SUVs. Why do you need a Hummer at 10mpg to drive to work by yourself. (I laugh everytime I see one of those filling up)

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

We'll end up with more efficient vehicles one way or the other - it's just a question of how and when we want to get there. Our approach over the past 20 years has been to simply ride the oil price rollercoaster and make minimal gains on fuel efficiency. With oil prices back at the $100 level even in a not-so-great economy, I'd say the time has come to put a stronger emphasis on this issue as these prices are a serious drag on the US economy. In my view, raising the gas tax will get us there far quicker than waiting for typically-watered-down-and-delayed CAFE standards to take effect.

Frankly the biggest problem is getting off the dime. Look at cell phones, plasma TV, etc. Technology always takes a bit of time to get ramped up...but once its under way, the new paradigm shifts from archaic status quo to ongoing innovation. Cars need to be added to the latter column.

Edit: About a year ago, I had an interesting discussion with a poster here. This guy (can't remember who) had the position that society was stuck with an approximate limit of MPG (might have been about 70ish). And that was based on physical limitations. I significantly disagree...really the sky's the limit for nearly any other technology...why should automobile MPG have any such limit?

 

[BassAle]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Right, for highly urbanized areas for people who accept planes and trains for longer distance travel. Its a niche until it 1) charges faster and 2) provides a longer range.

I know my day to day travel involve going to work, doing errands, heading into DC on occasion... but you know that I'm uncomfortable with being strictly limited from being able to drive home or do whatever I want if the opportunity arises.

Some people may accept such restrictions in their life... if they are, good for them... but when they start putting that on the rest of us... I have nothing but vicious unkind words.

chevy volt... it is likely that your day to day commute would be completely electric, but when you need to head home the IC engine would kick in. no problem.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

This guy (can't remember who) had the position that society was stuck with an approximate limit of MPG (might have been about 70ish). And that was based on physical limitations. I significantly disagree...really the sky's the limit for nearly any other technology...why should automobile MPG have any such limit?

VW blew that number out of the water: http://gas2.org/2008/03/12/the-worlds-most-fuel-efficient-car-285-mpg-not-a-hybrid/

The thing of it is, to get these high numbers, it won't look like a typical car. It also won't weigh nearly as much.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

All I know is a Prius gets 0 MPG when it's spun backwards into a 3-foot snowdrift.

So does an SUV when the driver gets overconfident and flips it over.

 

[SteveP]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

So does an SUV when the driver gets overconfident and flips it over.

As an accident investigator, we had a saying that "the only thing four-wheel drive is good for is getting stuck in places you can't get to with two-wheel drive."

 

[Handyman]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Also, West Virginia is going to need something now that Robert Byrd has gone to the great earmark in the sky.

The day oil runs out will be a great day for civilization. The Saudis, the Iranians and Texas will all go belly up, and the Israelis will no longer have us by the balls. A pox on all four.

Sorry, but if Israel had "us" by the balls there would no longer be a Syria or Lebanon, Gaza and the Golon Heights would be completely in their control and Egypt would not have the Sinai. We may need Israel in the region, but we have them by the balls. We have kept them on a chain for years to keep the region stable and to prevent...well exactly what is going on now. When Israel is attacked without provocation America and the always Jew loving Europe always hold them back or scold them for retaliating. Rabin was assassinated because he was following American orders to not only make peace with the PLO and its terrorist leader and give up land, something his people didnt want even though they wanted peace. (my uncle has lived there since about 1990 and was huge into the Right Wing underground, I heard a lot of things from the horses mouth) Thank god Arafat was a meglomaniac, theif and liar and walked away from negotiations who knows what else "we" might have forced Israel to give up. America has used Israel much like the Arab Nations have used the Palestinians, as a pawn in a larger chess match. Push them out front for political gain or awesome soundbytes (or death in the case of Palestinians) but always make sure they are dependent on you.

Sorry but Israel holds very little power in this little symbiotic relationship. In fact if the Saudi's pushed the issue of a choice, I think we both know who wins. Israel has "us" by the balls about as much as my cat has me by the balls. Sure he can run around and act like he owns the place but when I snap my fingers he comes, he eats when I give him food, and if he is somewhere I don't want him he leaves.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

This thread reminds me of a Weekend Update bit with Chevey Chase about all the different ways to spell 'Gadhafi'.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

His nurse is leaving Libya.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Algeria lifts their 19-year state of emergency to try to head off protesters' demands.

Failed coup in the Democratic Republic of Congo, but that may just have been dictatorial musical chairs.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

THis is beginning to sound like a virtual game of Risk with some guy rolling a whole lot of big numbers.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

This thread reminds me of a Weekend Update bit with Chevey Chase about all the different ways to spell 'Gadhafi'.

The Daily Show kept making comparisons to people, putting up pictures of Commordores era Lionel Richie and so on...it was funny

As for Risk...I say go for the Ukraine! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLtF_PxbYw

 

[alfablue]

Re: Unrest in Egypt

Frankly the biggest problem is getting off the dime. Look at cell phones, plasma TV, etc. Technology always takes a bit of time to get ramped up...but once its under way, the new paradigm shifts from archaic status quo to ongoing innovation. Cars need to be added to the latter column.

Edit: About a year ago, I had an interesting discussion with a poster here. This guy (can't remember who) had the position that society was stuck with an approximate limit of MPG (might have been about 70ish). And that was based on physical limitations. I significantly disagree...really the sky's the limit for nearly any other technology...why should automobile MPG have any such limit?

It's funny that people think that cars are not being developed at a high enough pace, when it's very clear that a Hummer H2 that got 50mpg, towed 12,000lb, and sold for a profit at $30k would make billions and billions in profit.

You think that there hasn't been a similar development in cars- well, look at the first few decades- things came in leaps and bounds. And still had a lot of drawbacks.

Why do cars seem to have a fuel economy limit? Physics vs. cost. Even then, physics will rule the day.

Electric's issue right now is that the best batteries that take up a lot of space hold only just over a gal of gas of energy. Once you fix that, then you can start dealing with the manufacturing issues to support 25-30 MILLION new cars a year. And I'll note, too, that Electric cars have progressed a lot less in the last 110 years than gas engines have.