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Unrest in Egypt

  • Thread starter Thread starter Priceless
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Re: Unrest in Egypt

geezer said:
OK, you said the 2nd Amendment is "obselete" because people can guard against tyranny without guns as shown in Egypt (which I shouldn't have to tell you is not "covered by the US Constitution"). I pointed out examples where that wasn't accomplished, showing non-violent revolutions to be the continuing exception to the norm. You said well yeah, there's no constitution in those places. Kind of proves my point, doesn't it? The constitution is what sets the U.S. apart human-rights-wise. That doesn't make it obselete.
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I said the true need behind the second Amendmentwas obsolete.

There are two reasons based on verbage in the Constitution to have a 'well regulated militia'...one to protect yourself from foriegn invaders and two to protect yourself from your government. The US will never be invaded...so the only logical piece is supposedly to protect yourself from your government.

Your examples were of third worldish countries where the govt and/or military disintigrated and the peoples fought themselves. Not happenin in the US.

Egypt was of a popular uprising...the last possiblity that the fringies worry about. The only scenario that's applicable to the US. But that occurred peacefully...and without armed protesters spraying bullets everywhere.

Another example of where allowing guns outside of one's home has more downside than up.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

About an hour or so to dawn on the Nile. Looks like its only Diehards are left now in Liberation Square. Probably the emptiest its been in 2 weeks.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

The War of 1812 never happened...just ask any teacher who teaches history. If it isnt the Revolutionary War, Civil War or WWII it does not exist.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

mookie1995 said:
ok. nice.

but let's move this east to iran... then i'll get excited.
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Or Iraq. ;)

AJE showing footage of protesters in Algiers. My wife did graduate work on the post-colonial political and economic history of Algeria and her reaction was "if I had any loved ones in Algeria I'd tell them not to go anywhere near those protesters. The rulers there do not mess around."

There will be new elections in Palestine and there's a warrant out in Pakistan for Musharaff's arrest in connection with the assassination of Bhutto (the second one). The times they are a changin'.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

CNN was reporting that Algiers, Algeria was erupting into protest there. It's not a surprise given its history, but it doesn't sound like this situation will come to as peaceful a resolution. http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/12/algeria.protest/index.html?hpt=Sbin

Tensions erupted in another restive North African nation as security forces in Algeria on Saturday clashed with anti-government protesters who chanted, "Change the power."

Police detained about 100 protesters in the nation's capital of Algiers, according to the Algerian League for Human Rights. The league is one of the main opposition groups that organized the rallies -- unauthorized gatherings that came a day after embattled Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak stepped down.

"We are here once again to tell this government that we want an Algeria (that is) democratic," one protester told Reuters television. "That's why we are here today and we will always be, as this power is still here, we will be always here too."

More than 3,000 demonstrators, including activists, students, doctors, and parliament members, joined the rally but were blocked by more than 30,000 police officers, said league president Mustafa Boushashi.

"The police attacked the demonstrators," Boushashi told CNN. "Many activists were beaten and over a hundred were taken into custody, including the parliament members from the Rally for Culture and Democracy Party."

Khalil AbdulMouminm, the league's general secretary, called the situation "very tense on the ground" and said police were preventing protesters from assembling, with authorities blocking all entrances to the capital.

"We want this rally to break the wall of fear in the first place," AbdulMouminm said. "And to trigger change in order to reach our legitimate demands, like lifting the emergency law after all these years, liberating media, freedom of political expression."

...

Earlier this month, Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika said he will end a state of emergency that has lasted nearly two decades, according to a report from the Algerian Press Service. Experts have said the announcement is a clear attempt by the Algerian leader to head off the kind of social unrest that toppled Ben Ali and Mubarak.

The state of emergency was imposed in 1992 to quell a civil war that eroded the country's resources and led to what the U.S. State Department says were the deaths of more than 150,000 people.

...
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Re: Unrest in Egypt

I'm probably simplifying it too much, but it seems that if these countries actually make a move toward more democracy and openness, it's going to suck for the US State Department for a while, but probably also going to suck for Al-Qaida and other extremist groups. Just seems that you're going to have more luck convincing people to blow themselves up coming out of an autocratic regime than one where you feel you have some say.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

bronconick said:
I'm probably simplifying it too much, but it seems that if these countries actually make a move toward more democracy and openness, it's going to suck for the US State Department for a while, but probably also going to suck for Al-Qaida and other extremist groups. Just seems that you're going to have more luck convincing people to blow themselves up coming out of an autocratic regime than one where you feel you have some say.
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True, in the long run, it sucks for AQ more than it would for us. We just have to worry about things going to Hades in a handbasket for a while, and pray like hell they don't miss their exit to get onto the Road to Democracy.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

bronconick said:
I'm probably simplifying it too much, but it seems that if these countries actually make a move toward more democracy and openness, it's going to suck for the US State Department for a while, but probably also going to suck for Al-Qaida and other extremist groups. Just seems that you're going to have more luck convincing people to blow themselves up coming out of an autocratic regime than one where you feel you have some say.
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True. I'll take that trade off. The two risks is that these countries crack down on their neighbors (no evidence this would happen) or crack down on their people (not likely due to new democracy status). Therefore if it hurts AQ, its pretty much good news.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

5mn_Major said:
I said the true need behind the second Amendmentwas obsolete.

There are two reasons based on verbage in the Constitution to have a 'well regulated militia'...one to protect yourself from foriegn invaders and two to protect yourself from your government. The US will never be invaded...so the only logical piece is supposedly to protect yourself from your government.

Your examples were of third worldish countries where the govt and/or military disintigrated and the peoples fought themselves. Not happenin in the US.

Egypt was of a popular uprising...the last possiblity that the fringies worry about. The only scenario that's applicable to the US. But that occurred peacefully...and without armed protesters spraying bullets everywhere.

Another example of where allowing guns outside of one's home has more downside than up.
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Well, we're not going to agree on gun control so I'll leave you with that view... but it still seems absurd to me that someone could use the Egyptian Revolution as a justification to voluntarily surrender individual rights to the central government. I suspect it's not what they were aiming for.
And again, it is wonderful and remarkable that it was relatively bloodless. If you dig around in history, you'll find that revolutions and coups are extremely rarely so, which makes this one all the more remarkable. I have strong doubts that humanity (or the U.S.) has evolved out of violence, though.
Remember to wear the body armor through Golden Valley this afternoon.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

Also keep in mind that while they got the dictator to step down, that in no way guarantees they'll become a democracy (the military is now in charge, and they might decide they like being in charge, which would make Egypt no different than any other country run by a military junta).
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

I'm sure we'll be seeing coverage on CNN anytime now.

Let's see...Oh, guess not.
 
Re: Unrest in Egypt

mookie1995 said:
Iraq never scared me. Iran does. Always has.

They are the key. If they can move from within, that is a game changer.
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Iran is divided between an educated middle class who is pro-western, a violent uneducated rural mass with a couple token educated demagogues who want an Old Testament strongman and blame all the world's ills on Jews, women, and modernity, and an unaffiliated third just trying to get by, unhappy about rolling brown-outs, but also not keen to have other countries dictate its internal politics.

In other words, it's Texas.
 
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