UNH Hockey 2023-2024 Season Thread - End Of The Cellar-Dweller Era??

[Drew S.]

where would Maine be this year without the Nadeau brothers? Barr is lucky— they grew up within sight of the Maine Border in a small town in New Brunswick, and picked Maine so their family could go to all of their games.

100%. Inheriting Breen, Poisson, Houle, and Renwick has certainly helped as well. I’m glad at the end of the season he finally elevated Poisson and Renwick to where they should be playing. They were wasted earlier in the year.

 

[HockeyRef]

100%. Inheriting Breen, Poisson, Houle, and Renwick has certainly helped as well. I’m glad at the end of the season he finally elevated Poisson and Renwick to where they should be playing. They were wasted earlier in the year.

See....thats what a coach should do..figure it out..make the necessary adjustments..the mark of a great coach.

Sure will be interesting to see how Maine does with the BU fire power..meaning of course Cellebrini...Perrault...Hutson...Tuch..

 

[Darius]

Just came by to see the chatter on the coaching situation. Thought I’d also apologize for the behavior as a Maine fan. All of that was tough to read. Every fan base has them unfortunately on boards like these.

I commented on Chuck’s novels, but even that feels a bit out of line. I get the enthusiasm and candor.

Anyway, as a Mainer and grad, had a lot of friends who went to UNH and enjoyed my fair share of pick up games at Whit, meals at Holloway, dollar slices after 11 at DHOP, a cocktail at scorps or libs, hazy mornings in Stoke, and late nights on Madbury or some house at the Greens, Coe, and Young drive.

Best of luck going forward. Souza was a hell of a player. It will be an interesting decision to move on from him after his best season, and the programs first 20 win season in 10 years. Could be a necessary reset.

If not for the Holloway (after my time) reference, I'd say we were hanging out lol.

 

[Chuck Murray]

So it begins in what I call No Man's Land. This was my fear going into the season. If it was another below standard season, it was an easy see ya later Souza. If he made the tournament, then you can't make a change yet. Instead we get close to making it with a good season. Is it just a fluke good year or is he building to get back to the standard? Did it just take longer than we all hoped? Do you make a change and experience misery longer if it starts like Souza? Do we stick it out and it was only a 1 year fluke? Of course it could go the other way on each choice. Could get a new guy to invigorate the program or Souza may have finally found the right direction. So we sit in limbo & hope for the best outcome.

I think the program is badly in need of reinvigoration, and preferably with a guy who can sell iceboxes to Eskimos on the recruiting trails, AND also can do in-game coaching in a tactically astute manner. UNH hasn't had either of these qualities in place with its HC for a long, long time. Personally, the latter issue was ridiculously exposed during last night's game. It's how you go from 0-0 after one period to a 5-0 final score (or for fans of the Way Back Machine, how you go from 2-1 up after one to losing 7-2 in the '02 FF Semis).

But you are correct, this is indeed a "No Man's Land" 'tweener, and the recency bias will probably save Coach Souza's professional skin (for now anyway). During her two years on campus, AD Rich has seen this team go from abject (first half last season) to decent (.500 second half), and now to average (6th place out of 11 in HEA). And while this is his personal "high water mark" over his 9 seasons involved on the UNH staff, the AD is probably gonna give him a pass for things that went down after the pandemic. But I would hope that she was watching closely last night, and understands that the concerns out there that even this modest amount of improvement was a fluke or a "mirage" are not unfounded.

If there is going to be an extension, my thoughts are that a one year renewal at the same terms (maybe allowing COLA) sends the message that we need more evidence, and the jury on longer term is still out. I might even understand a two year extension, so long as UNH plans for sufficient available budgeted funds to allow for an early buyout if next year sees a fall-off and/or the right replacement candidate is available.

Anything longer than that, frankly is not deserved. There was already one earlier inexplicable gift of an extension from the prior AD on his way out of town. How many more breaks does this guy get, when he hasn't accomplished a single thing yet? 20 wins?? Better than a sharp stick in the eye, but during most of the Umile Era, that is considered an "off year". This is one cat ('Cat?) who seems to have been allotted WAY more than the usual nine lives.

If the right replacement candidate is out there this offseason, AD Rich should move for him NOW. It's exactly what she did with Coach Herrion at this time last year, and it seems that worked out OK, with promise for further improvement.

But IF there is an extension, of ANY kind, I'll say this in closing ... to those whom much is given, much will be expected. It's been enlightening to see how energetic the head coach has become in the public eye THIS season, when his professional future was on the line. Query why there were no previous "charm offensives" in the media, showing up with Brick on a B's game on NESN, etc. Souza has shown just how hard he can work when it's his contract that's on the line. If he is extended - for a day, a week, a year or more - the activity we've seen over the last two months should be a baseline expectation from Souza going forward. We will be watching ...

 

[HockeyRef]

I think the program is badly in need of reinvigoration, and preferably with a guy who can sell iceboxes to Eskimos on the recruiting trails, AND also can do in-game coaching in a tactically astute manner. UNH hasn't had either of these qualities in place with its HC for a long, long time. Personally, the latter issue was ridiculously exposed during last night's game. It's how you go from 0-0 after one period to a 5-0 final score (or for fans of the Way Back Machine, how you go from 2-1 up after one to losing 7-2 in the '02 FF Semis).

But you are correct, this is indeed a "No Man's Land" 'tweener, and the recency bias will probably save Coach Souza's professional skin (for now anyway). During her two years on campus, AD Rich has seen this team go from abject (first half last season) to decent (.500 second half), and now to average (6th place out of 11 in HEA). And while this is his personal "high water mark" over his 9 seasons involved on the UNH staff, the AD is probably gonna give him a pass for things that went down after the pandemic. But I would hope that she was watching closely last night, and understands that the concerns out there that even this modest amount of improvement was a fluke or a "mirage" are not unfounded.

If there is going to be an extension, my thoughts are that a one year renewal at the same terms (maybe allowing COLA) sends the message that we need more evidence, and the jury on longer term is still out. I might even understand a two year extension, so long as UNH plans for sufficient available budgeted funds to allow for an early buyout if next year sees a fall-off and/or the right replacement candidate is available.

Anything longer than that, frankly is not deserved. There was already one earlier inexplicable gift of an extension from the prior AD on his way out of town. How many more breaks does this guy get, when he hasn't accomplished a single thing yet? 20 wins?? Better than a sharp stick in the eye, but during most of the Umile Era, that is considered an "off year". This is one cat ('Cat?) who seems to have been allotted WAY more than the usual nine lives.

If the right replacement candidate is out there this offseason, AD Rich should move for him NOW. It's exactly what she did with Coach Herrion at this time last year, and it seems that worked out OK, with promise for further improvement.

But IF there is an extension, of ANY kind, I'll say this in closing ... to those whom much is given, much will be expected. It's been enlightening to see how energetic the head coach has become in the public eye THIS season, when his professional future was on the line. Query why there were no previous "charm offensives" in the media, showing up with Brick on a B's game on NESN, etc. Souza has shown just how hard he can work when it's his contract that's on the line. If he is extended - for a day, a week, a year or more - the activity we've seen over the last two months should be a baseline expectation from Souza going forward. We will be watching ...

Here's what might be behind the possibility of a multi year contract...the long awaited 'turn around' (which am in agreement with Snively Hellsten had ALOT to do with that..) the attendance at the 'Whitt...and of course the planned renovations that are expected at attract high end talent. These have to be the selling /.contract talking points used or are close to it, no?

A one year signals to me uncertainty and that you dont trust your coach...we need to attract players not make them wonder who their HC is going to be (imho). That doesn't look good.

At any rate looking forward to the final say on all of this and hope it comes soon...and hope that I can just enjoy the hockey for what it is and not spend the next few years whining about it.

On that last point don't hold yer breath haha...

 

[StillKIA2]

Sparkee snd Groovey… how bout you show a little bit of class. Act like you represent a program that plays with class. To UNH fans, it’s a tuff loss to take but maybe you will get that coaching change you want and maybe need.

Sparkee and groovy are not the ones calling people snowflakes, cellar dwellers, uneducated, unintelligent, missing chromosomes, dinged chromosomes…i can go on, but only one person is throwing personal insults.

a wise unh fan might ignore the trolls, not feed them with 9-paragraph-long BORING rants
(notice how hockeyref remains civil AND interesting? Maybe someone could learn from her?)

 

[Russthom]

Comments being exchanged between UNH and Maine fans are interesting. Kind of reminds me of HOKYDAD back in the "Vecchione Days" Still remember this one: "Durham is just Chelsea with trees".

 

[Chuck Murray]

Here's what might be behind the possibility of a multi year contract...the long awaited 'turn around' (which am in agreement with Snively Hellsten had ALOT to do with that..) the attendance at the 'Whitt...and of course the planned renovations that are expected at attract high end talent. These have to be the selling /.contract talking points used or are close to it, no?

A one year signals to me uncertainty and that you dont trust your coach...we need to attract players not make them wonder who their HC is going to be (imho). That doesn't look good.

At any rate looking forward to the final say on all of this and hope it comes soon...and hope that I can just enjoy the hockey for what it is and not spend the next few years whining about it.

On that last point don't hold yer breath haha...

But ... DO we trust the coach? And as far as "attracting players", did not Hellsten and Conmy (and others) come to UNH this season, knowing it was Coach Souza's lame duck season?? Is a longer extension going to change the mind of any of the top advisors who dismiss UNH as a legit destination for the top-end recruits??? Is a longer extension gonna make MS7 a better talent developer and/or in-game coach????

I understand the "logic" behind a longer term, but none of the prerequisites outlined above are in place. Hard pass.

Waiting eagerly for 'Watcher and Dan to chime in ...

 

[Dan]

I want the program to go in a different direction. For two reasons...

First, IMO, the only reason this season is viewed as such a success or indication of progress is its relativity to the previous decade-ish of Mike Souza impact/leadership. This is the first time since he's been in Durham that UNH has finished above 10th-place. And its not like they finished in the top-four, advanced to Boston or qualified for the NCAA Tournament. They simply advanced to the middle of the pack. They rode the momentum of a strong start to an 'impressive' PWR position all season - beating BU in game one, QU a week or two later and sweeping a floundering NU team before it found its footing. There is a lot of window dressing on a season that only truly looks good relative to what we've seen prior...

Secondly, my interpretation of WHY this season looks good doesn't indicate any certainty of future success...

* I see tremendous good fortune in the transfer acquisition of Jacob Hellsten. If he doesn't spend this season in Durham, UNH is bottom three in HE again. Hitting on transfers is hardly a recipe for success, and its very easy to see Hellsten as an extreme outlier compared to other portal additions made by this coaching staff.

* They've hit upon a nice group of mobile/puck moving defenders capable of making offensive contributions - reminiscent of the Kostolansky, Hardowa, TVR, Pesce, Knodel, Agosta group. Jensen & Reid will graduate and I see Gagne & Huard as carrying some level of professional flight-risk into the summer. I don't see that transition upside in any of six D commits scheduled for the next two seasons - so Hellsten or otherwise, its unlikely this group defends as well next season, or aids the offense to the same extent. Losing Sam Court could prove very unfortunate.

* Offensively, I think both Souza and UNH have benefitted from several forwards playing FAR above the level anyone could have predicted based on their track records entering NCAA Hockey. I wont name names, but the only elite forward on the roster is Ryan Conmy - maybe Sardarian can be a GUY - while many of other top contributors are producing at a higher level in college than they ever did in Juniors. Does Souza deserve 'diamond in the rough' credit for this? Maybe? However, to me, in all honesty, it looks more like a few fortunate hits than a track record of ID'ing under the radar prospects. It could certainly be a very strong forward group if MacP, MacP & Sadowski are all brought in next fall - and if Souza is back he should certainly take that chance - but as the overachievers progress out, who else exists in the current pipeline to replace them...?

To sum it up, as the good fortune in talent acquisition (which, again, has only lifted UNH to average) fades away, the recruiting pipeline is not prepared to replace them with the requisite talent or depth of talent. Then what happens?

Is UNH now able to apply the portal in a significant way, unearth unappreciated prospects consistently and land a Conmy or two on a regular basis? Or, as expressed often, is this just a mirage/run of luck? If it is just a nice run, than it happens just in time to potentially land Souza an extension before UNH is buried again in the bottom third of the league, perhaps for good this time...

--

I've always been a big picture guy, and the big picture of Mike Souza at UNH has been very disappointing and underwhelming. One good year doesn't change my mind on that topic.

If Rich thinks he's earned a one-year deal, or a two-year deal with an easy buyout, I suppose I can stomach that. But anything longer or more committed will make me nauseous.

I also believe there are several good options that may not be around next year or the year after, and I'd hate to see UNH miss out on top targets based on little more than hope.

Nine years is a long evaluation. If the 6th-place finish happened in year five, would this even be a conversation? I want more for UNH than mediocre, with some snapshots of excitement. But that's just me. Who knows what UNH wants, or whether they care about ever returning to anything more...

Another hire would be a risk, would they bring better or worse? I simply doubt Souza's long-term ability to bring better based on watching him do the job for nearly a decade. And if I don't believe it, I cannot argue for an extension.

 

[Dan]

where would Maine be this year without the Nadeau brothers? Barr is lucky— they grew up within sight of the Maine Border in a small town in New Brunswick, and picked Maine so their family could go to all of their games.

Kudos to Barr for landing them. Everyone talks about this as a forgone recruiting outcome when it still takes quite a bit of recruiting savvy to bring it to fruition. They played JR hockey in BC, I think they probably could have survived college a bit further away. Barr landed them. Period.

If Souza could have done the same with the Steeves, then maybe we’re having a different conversation…

 

[e.cat]

Speaking of recruits, it would make absolutely no sense at all if the new guy doesn't have some serious groceries lined up to follow him to Durham. If that new guy doesn't have the groceries then no deal. As my seven year old granddaughter says, "that's a hard no". Haha

 

[JB]

As if I don't know how our coaching selection went down. For the record it really wasn't a question per se I was asking more of a point to make about how unfortunate it is that UNH has been in this boat for as long as we have been. Maybe it's the beginning of something good who knows...get back to me in 3 years.

But gee thanks sooo much for clearing that up for me...

Got it IGNORE HockeyRef.

- asks question doesn't want answers
- freaks out about contracts that clearly aren't done or they would be announced

 

[HockeyRef]

Got it IGNORE HockeyRef.

- asks question doesn't want answers
- freaks out about contracts that clearly aren't done or they would be announced

Oh my...well there has been a misunderstanding...I did snap at you, I admit. I thought you were calling my post 'stupid'. It was a knee jerk reaction
to the game's outcome, or maybe (most likely) I misunderstood you. I already explained why I put my 'question' in that format. I know that prob alot of people on this board
and hell, this forum don't take me seriously and I don't pretend to know it all.

So sorry I ever brought that contract stuff up. I don't proclaim to know the 411 on everything.

Peace out everyone...have a great off season.

 

[d.gerry]

If in fact MS7 is getting an extension, when should we expect the decision to be announced? At the conclusion of the NCAA tournament, or before that? I would think if it’s already in the bag, it would be sooner rather than later. The longer with no announcement may indicate a change is coming, as some possibilities could still be “in action” until the tourney concludes.

 

[defkit]

See....thats what a coach should do..figure it out..make the necessary adjustments..the mark of a great coach.

Sure will be interesting to see how Maine does with the BU fire power..meaning of course Cellebrini...Perrault...Hutson...Tuch..

I wish we had Perreault, but sadly, he plays up the street with his USNTDP linemates. In fact for BU at forward, there is a pretty big drop off after Macklin when you look at points. But good depth throughout and guys that are hard to play against, including Tuch (currently plays on the 4th line).

 

[norbert]

To show I am not all bad, here is a link to the Souza post game interview:

https://youtu.be/UrP63Kck15w?si=PG4HReVGPQJhMKQM

enjoy

That’s literally the definition of bad. Trolling. Mom and dad are sister and brother. Go back to your own board

 

[norbert]

Sparkee and groovy are not the ones calling people snowflakes, cellar dwellers, uneducated, unintelligent, missing chromosomes, dinged chromosomes…i can go on, but only one person is throwing personal insults.

a wise unh fan might ignore the trolls, not feed them with 9-paragraph-long BORING rants
(notice how hockeyref remains civil AND interesting? Maybe someone could learn from her?)

Maybe if sparkee didn’t just randomly come over and run his slightly droopy mouth none of this would happen. It’s takes more to win with class than lose with class. But when mom and dad are directly related I understand that can be tough

 

[Sparkee]

Maybe if sparkee didn’t just randomly come over and run his slightly droopy mouth none of this would happen. It’s takes more to win with class than lose with class. But when mom and dad are directly related I understand that can be tough

Hey, I take offense to that. IT WASN’T RANDOM. It had everything to do with Maine handing it to UNH again in a big game. You know it and I know it. Also, I never said I would be classy. That was never part of the deal. I’ll let you have that. We only wanted the win and to be able to gloat over it.

 

[norbert]

Hey, I take offense to that. IT WASN’T RANDOM. It had everything to do with Maine handing it to UNH again in a big game. You know it and I know it. Also, I never said I would be classy. That was never part of the deal. I’ll let you have that. We only wanted the win and to be able to gloat over it.

Winning with class takes a lot of effort but obviously you can’t do that. Being a douche bag and making a comment is completely different.

Your final SAT question to get into fry cook school is, if Maine losses the semis and first round of the regional, is that much better?

 

[Chuck Murray]

If in fact MS7 is getting an extension, when should we expect the decision to be announced? At the conclusion of the NCAA tournament, or before that? I would think if it’s already in the bag, it would be sooner rather than later. The longer with no announcement may indicate a change is coming, as some possibilities could still be “in action” until the tourney concludes.

Just guessing ... if he is gone, we should hear this week. No reason to keep him hanging on in limbo. No one deserves that. I think AD Rich met with Coach Herrion shortly after his tourney was done, and the announcement followed shortly after. I'm guessing - just guessing - she will do the same with Coach Souza this week, and if he's gone, we'll know soon enough. If he's extended, maybe they will announce it in Boston at the HEA Tourney next weekend? Didn't they used to have the conference awards banquet in the days leading up to the tourney??

I can't imagine this dragging into April. UNH has no chance of further games, so it's over, and the outcome of the season will not improve with an unexpected NCAA bid. So if there's gonna be a modest extension, the parameters should pretty much be set by now.

Waiting until the big tourney is over to announce MS7's fate would be a clear tell that there is a potential candidate still coaching his team (QU Dumais?), but one would hope Rich has done her homework on this in advance?

With Dan having chimed in today (and I agree with 99+% of what he's said), only 'Watcher remains on the clock ... ;-)