ECACeastFAN
ECACE fan / avid game watcher
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
Where are the numbers published?
Where are the numbers published?
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The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
- Thread starter joecct
- Start date
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/icehockey-men/d3
at the bottom it says
"For more information regarding the regional score reporting form: East Region | West Region" click on either east or west for a spreadsheet with the numbers
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/icehockey-men/d3
at the bottom it says
"For more information regarding the regional score reporting form: East Region | West Region" click on either east or west for a spreadsheet with the numbers
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
The numbers between Trinity and Amherst are very, very close (Trinity wins WIN, Amherst wins RNK (barely) and SOS and L25 are a wash. Then the numbers between Oswego and Trinity are painfully close. Trinity wins WIN and L25 (both are close though), Oswego wins RNK and SOS appears to be a wash. Finally you can make a case for Oswego even better with Amherst, winning WIN and RNK. It'll be interesting to see how everyone is ranked.
The numbers between Trinity and Amherst are very, very close (Trinity wins WIN, Amherst wins RNK (barely) and SOS and L25 are a wash. Then the numbers between Oswego and Trinity are painfully close. Trinity wins WIN and L25 (both are close though), Oswego wins RNK and SOS appears to be a wash. Finally you can make a case for Oswego even better with Amherst, winning WIN and RNK. It'll be interesting to see how everyone is ranked.
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
Nothing about "my team got screwed" here. First, Stevens Point is not my team. Second, I'm pointing out a flaw in the SOS that includes OOWP. Just look at the OWP and figure it out from there. I prefer coaches polls. Computers don't see the teams play. If you take the current USCHO and D3 polls and eliminate all the Conference winners (highest ranked/remaining in each conference) as Pool A's, you are left with the following at-large teams:
#4 Stevens Point (Pool B)
#5 St. Norbert (Pool C)
#6 Trinity (Pool C)
#7 Plattsburgh (Pool C)
All four of those teams may see movement on Saturday, but that is how I see it on Tuesday, March 3rd.
No computers. No "criteria". No speculating. Simple. Coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country that know D3 hockey and know the teams.
Nothing about "my team got screwed" here. First, Stevens Point is not my team. Second, I'm pointing out a flaw in the SOS that includes OOWP. Just look at the OWP and figure it out from there. I prefer coaches polls. Computers don't see the teams play. If you take the current USCHO and D3 polls and eliminate all the Conference winners (highest ranked/remaining in each conference) as Pool A's, you are left with the following at-large teams:
#4 Stevens Point (Pool B)
#5 St. Norbert (Pool C)
#6 Trinity (Pool C)
#7 Plattsburgh (Pool C)
All four of those teams may see movement on Saturday, but that is how I see it on Tuesday, March 3rd.
No computers. No "criteria". No speculating. Simple. Coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country that know D3 hockey and know the teams.
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
Hobart beats Plattsburgh in SoS and L25, ties in Win% and loses in RvR. That 2-1-1 for Hobart. But we have a week to go and who knows what will happen Sundae night.
Hobart beats Plattsburgh in SoS and L25, ties in Win% and loses in RvR. That 2-1-1 for Hobart. But we have a week to go and who knows what will happen Sundae night.
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
I'm sure many people can back me up here, the polls have been so far off sometimes that its laughable. Teams will be ranked higher on name recognition alone.
I'm sure many people can back me up here, the polls have been so far off sometimes that its laughable. Teams will be ranked higher on name recognition alone.
ECACeastFAN
ECACE fan / avid game watcher
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
Coaches votes are not an accurate way to determine success. Big strong fast teams always look good during a game, but what about a talented, smaller team that grinds and wins hockeys games?
I guess what I'm saying is from watching a lot of d3 hockey over the years, certain teams "feel" dominant because of how they play, who's on the roster, reputation. But dominance is measured in wins & losses, SOS, the criteria. Not coaches opinions.
NESCAC & some ECACE schools (and a few SUNYs) have a hard time recruiting because of brutally tough admissions offices. Often some of these teams play a style of hockey that is smart, calculated and tactful, but less mean and aggressive (this is proven when you look at what teams tend to take more PIMs on average over the course of a season).
I'm not saying coaches can't see through this and make educated decisions, but I am saying I don't trust them to do so, which is why the coaches poll is just a poll.
Coaches votes are not an accurate way to determine success. Big strong fast teams always look good during a game, but what about a talented, smaller team that grinds and wins hockeys games?
I guess what I'm saying is from watching a lot of d3 hockey over the years, certain teams "feel" dominant because of how they play, who's on the roster, reputation. But dominance is measured in wins & losses, SOS, the criteria. Not coaches opinions.
NESCAC & some ECACE schools (and a few SUNYs) have a hard time recruiting because of brutally tough admissions offices. Often some of these teams play a style of hockey that is smart, calculated and tactful, but less mean and aggressive (this is proven when you look at what teams tend to take more PIMs on average over the course of a season).
I'm not saying coaches can't see through this and make educated decisions, but I am saying I don't trust them to do so, which is why the coaches poll is just a poll.
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
Coaches don't see many more games that season ticket holders do. They see their teams and the teams they play against. The human polls, especially at the Div III level, are the worst way to pick teams.
Coaches don't see many more games that season ticket holders do. They see their teams and the teams they play against. The human polls, especially at the Div III level, are the worst way to pick teams.
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
Here we go
Here we go
Code:
RANK SCHOOL DIVISION III RECORD OVERALL RECORD
EAST REGION
1 Amherst 18-4-2 19-4-2
2 Trinity (Connecticut) 21-3-1 21-3-1
3 Oswego State 18-2-4 18-3-4
4 Hobart 20-6-0 20-6-0
5 Norwich 19-3-1 23-3-1
6 Massachusetts Boston 18-4-1 22-4-1
7 Plattsburgh State 19-5-2 19-5-2
8 Babson 15-5-3 19-5-3
WEST REGION
1 Adrian 22-3-3 22-3-3
2 Wisconsin-Stevens Point 21-5-1 21-5-1
3 St. Norbert 20-5-2 20-5-2
4 Wisconsin-Eau Claire 18-7-2 18-7-2
5 Wisconsin-River Falls 19-7-1 19-7-1
6 St. Thomas (Minn.) 16-6-4 16-6-4
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Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
Yup.
But first things first - Hobart needs to take care of business and beat Neumann. The old cliche goes "it's tough to beat a team three times straight"....what about four times?
Yup.
But first things first - Hobart needs to take care of business and beat Neumann. The old cliche goes "it's tough to beat a team three times straight"....what about four times?
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
Maybe we should have a "re-invent the system" thread and have it run all year long?
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
You forgot that Plattsburgh is the #1 team in the SUNYAC, not Oswego.
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
With all due respect to the Lakers, and I do, I think the Cardinals will beat them Saturday night at the Stafford to claim the autobid. If that happens, how do the Lakers stack up in the Pool C? I believe teams like Amherst, St. Norbert, Plattsburgh, Norwich and Oswego are hoping that the favorites hold serve in the event they don't win. I just don't know how to deal with Trinity and Hobart. There's got to be some punishment laid on Trinity for and embarrassing 1st round loss...but how much? I'm hoping either Hobart or Stevens Point comes up short in their games so they'll be out of the Pool C discussion.
As a Card fan, I'm pulling for Amherst, Adrian and Norwich Saturday night. In answer to an earlier question, I don't think NESCAC would be a 3 bid conference if Amherst doesn't win. Last year, the SUNYAC should've been awarded 3 slots, but Norwich went as a Pool C over Plattsburgh even though the criteria favored the Cardinals.
With all due respect to the Lakers, and I do, I think the Cardinals will beat them Saturday night at the Stafford to claim the autobid. If that happens, how do the Lakers stack up in the Pool C? I believe teams like Amherst, St. Norbert, Plattsburgh, Norwich and Oswego are hoping that the favorites hold serve in the event they don't win. I just don't know how to deal with Trinity and Hobart. There's got to be some punishment laid on Trinity for and embarrassing 1st round loss...but how much? I'm hoping either Hobart or Stevens Point comes up short in their games so they'll be out of the Pool C discussion.
As a Card fan, I'm pulling for Amherst, Adrian and Norwich Saturday night. In answer to an earlier question, I don't think NESCAC would be a 3 bid conference if Amherst doesn't win. Last year, the SUNYAC should've been awarded 3 slots, but Norwich went as a Pool C over Plattsburgh even though the criteria favored the Cardinals.
PSUChamps2001
Member of the REAL Zoo Crew
If OSU loses Saturday night they will be a 3 loss team with a 2-1-1 rank record. Might not like their seed/draw but "should" be in.
On the other front, had PSU won the Geneseo game they are a legitimate Pool C contender...
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PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
The Sunyac didn't have the top 2 ranked teams in the last public NCAA rankings either.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
Yup. Two D-1 coaches I know admit that they give their poll forms to grad-assistants to fill out, because those beauty-pageants don't matter.
Yup. Two D-1 coaches I know admit that they give their poll forms to grad-assistants to fill out, because those beauty-pageants don't matter.
PSUChamps2001
Member of the REAL Zoo Crew
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
Just one other thing to point out for those who want more human element in the selection.... I don't know about you but if my season is in the hands of a committee I would like to have a "hockey committee" consist of actual HOCKEY members. Not baseball, tennis, and women's basketball coaches
Just one other thing to point out for those who want more human element in the selection.... I don't know about you but if my season is in the hands of a committee I would like to have a "hockey committee" consist of actual HOCKEY members. Not baseball, tennis, and women's basketball coaches
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...
I was aware of that. I wrote "highest ranked/remaining in each conference".
I was aware of that. I wrote "highest ranked/remaining in each conference".