What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

joecct said:
My bad. You're 100% right. The numbers support Trinity in the top 3. Perception puts them lower.

We'll know later today whether numbers or perception are running the rankings.
Click to expand...

My comments were regarding Trinity last year. Trinity this year has a much better SOS and I think they should be a definite in this year.
 
neumanniaknights09 said:
If Neumann goes into Hobart and wins the ECAC W I don't get why they won't get consideration for NCAA tournament? Its time for the ECAC W to add more teams or it's time for teams to look at other conferences where they can compete for auto bids.
Click to expand...

You mean like when Utica applied to jojn the SUNYAC as an associate, and was rejected? None of the New England conferences are looking for new members that far outside their geographic footprint, and the SUNYAC is only interested in adding Canton at this stage.

As for Neumann, one NCAA DIII rule says that their conference doesn't qualify for an Automatic Bid, while another says that Neumann doesn't have the résumé to get in on their own merit. It sucks, but it's the reality of their situation.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

snc11 said:
So, what you are telling me is that Trinity didn't meet the "criteria" last year; and somehow, Superior's 16-13-11 record in 2011 met the "criteria" over Castleton's 22-4-1 record or MSOE's 21-6-1 record? I don't think I'm the one "off in deep space 9". Take your computer out and show me how Superior deserved an at-large bid over Castleton or MSOE. Like I said, if it were simply "criteria", there is ZERO need for a committee.
Click to expand...

Its funny that Champs points out that you are only looking at W-L record and your rebuttle is to point out more W-L records.

Give up Champs...some people will never get it...
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

snc11 said:
And there is the reason why SOS is worthless. Hobart has played exactly TWO teams on that list and they were both losses.
Click to expand...

So SOS should only be comprised of your 3 or 4 toughest games during the year and not all of your games? :rolleyes:
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

snc11 said:
Go and look at Hobart's full schedule. Then take a look at Steven's Point's full schedule. Do you really, truly believe that Hobart's schedule as a whole was stronger than Stevens Point's? Stevens Point played 10 teams (and St. Thomas who was unranked when they met) that were ranked at the time of the game. Hobart played two (7 fewer). Stevens Point had 10 games against the other 5 teams ranked by the NCAA in the West Division (nearly half their games). There is no way they shouldn't be #1 in SOS.
Click to expand...

Yes. OWP and OOWP.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

snc11 said:
Okay, so you're going there. I didn't talk down to you or anyone else. I'm only pointing out truths while several people keep pointing to a "criteria" that they believe are written in stone with no wiggle room. I'll say it again, if the "criteria" are written in stone, then there is no point in having a "selection committee". My iMac could do the selecting and scheduling for that matter. Looking at a 16-13-11 at-large team bares some notice to W-L record. Would you question the "criteria" if Neumann wins this weekend to go to 15-8-4 and gets an at-large bid? That record and their #9 SOS is much better than Superior's in 2011.
Click to expand...

The process is set up to have a check/balance between black and white metrics and human subjectivity. The six primary criteria is the "black and white" element of the ranking and selection process...the numbers are what they are. The commitee can then weigh each of the criteria differently....which is where human subjectivity comes in...or the "gray" area.

As someone already pointed out, once they determine how they will weigh the criteria, that weighting applies to EVERYONE. If your team happens to be exceptionally strong in one of the critetria (let's use win%), but the committee weighs that criteria below the others, well....that sucks for your team. This is why you read so many comments on SOS on this forum - the committee has traditionally weighted this criteria higher than others. I can understand the different opinions on whether SOS is calculated the "right" way...but that is a different conversation.

What ticks so many people off is the committe is not obligated to reveal how they weighted criteria and they don't publish the final rankings...so everyone is left to deduce from their output how they were thinking.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

snc11 said:
Yes…I know how SOS is calculated. Pointing out it's ridiculousness doesn't help. Please look at those two schedules and tell me with your human mind which team had a tougher schedule. The 0-2-0 against ranked opponent Hobart team; or, the 7-3-0 against ranked opponent Stevens Point team?
Click to expand...

Hobart.

The fact that you bring up their record against 'ranked' teams, shows that you don't understand the composite SOS. A team could go 0-25 for the year and still have the toughest SOS.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh said:
You mean like when Utica applied to jojn the SUNYAC as an associate, and was rejected? None of the New England conferences are looking for new members that far outside their geographic footprint, and the SUNYAC is only interested in adding Canton at this stage.

As for Neumann, one NCAA DIII rule says that their conference doesn't qualify for an Automatic Bid, while another says that Neumann doesn't have the résumé to get in on their own merit. It sucks, but it's the reality of their situation.
Click to expand...

Fair enough but did the team in 09 that won the whole thing not have 9 losses and still make the tournament? Those were different situations I guess because the ECAC W was a perceived stronger conference at the time? Just saying I'd rather see the teams playing at the top of their game at the end of the season then picking at large teams based off of what they did early in the season when the stakes weren't as high. The system is the system though I guess. Too bad. Rinse lather repeat?
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

snc11 said:
Hobart is 0-2 against ranked teams and sitting at #1. Next argument.
Click to expand...

Hobart is #5, they are #1 is SOS though(of ranked teams in the East)
 
Last edited:
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

snc11 said:
Exactly…they can manipulate the data and never have to report back to the class. Why? Because the "criteria" are a "guide".
Click to expand...

+ 1 ... the very facet that the committee delegates in a private room, get's to weight criteria differently year over year, and is not forced to share how they've weighting things, bothers me. It sounds like they've simply developed a way where they can decide whatever they'd like and be safe from negative backlash, because they don't have to share their decisions.

The only was someone can prove to me that the committee doesn't skew the final picks via bias would be to go to last years stats, pull every teams data, and figure out which criteria was weighted heaviest and which was weighted least. There has to be stat evidence that proves the ultimate rankings otherwise it's all just shadow games.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Anyone got the inside scoop on whether we see NCAA rankings today or tomorrow?
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

snc11 said:
Hobart is #5 overall. Stevens Point is #14 overall. Hobart's opponent's win % is .521 and Stevens Point's opponent's win % is .526. I see no reason to include opponent's opponent's win % in this formula. That only begs the question, "Who was on the opponent's, opponent's schedule?" You can go round and round with this criteria, but the bottom line is use the OWP and then use your intellect and knowledge of D3 hockey. If your team got in to the tournament based on win% alone (no other factors), who's schedule would you want your team to play, Hobart or Stevens Point?
Click to expand...

We're having an early start on the "My team got screwed" thread.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

snc11 said:
Hobart is #5 overall. Stevens Point is #14 overall. Hobart's opponent's win % is .521 and Stevens Point's opponent's win % is .526. I see no reason to include opponent's opponent's win % in this formula. That only begs the question, "Who was on the opponent's, opponent's schedule?" You can go round and round with this criteria, but the bottom line is use the OWP and then use your intellect and knowledge of D3 hockey. If your team got in to the tournament based on win% alone (no other factors), who's schedule would you want your team to play, Hobart or Stevens Point?
Click to expand...

I wasn't comparing Hobart to Stevens Point, I put SP higher on the pool C list than Hobart, but i think they'll get a Pool B
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

The numbers have been published. Just no rankings yet.

But, from a quick scan, it appears that the eight ranked teams in the East have remained the same.

Not sure on the west.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top