TonyTheTiger20
#SOAR
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
/grabs popcorn
/repeatedly hits F5
/grabs popcorn
/repeatedly hits F5
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The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
- Thread starter YabaDabaDoo
- Start date
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
I was looking 'goals against', and 'save percentage'.
Now with 'goals against' you can extend your 'number of shots seen' argument; or I guess you could make a 'the defense in front of them is better' argument. But then you could make that same sort of 'getting help from better teammates' for a forward's goal-scoring numbers as well.
But 'save percentage'? That's a cumulative stat. Desbiens has a better save percentage than Burt or Macshmeyer et al. because she stops more pucks PER 100 SHOTS than the others. Currently (and of course it could change) her save percentage would be a new NCAA record, and by a pretty fair margin.
I was looking 'goals against', and 'save percentage'.
Now with 'goals against' you can extend your 'number of shots seen' argument; or I guess you could make a 'the defense in front of them is better' argument. But then you could make that same sort of 'getting help from better teammates' for a forward's goal-scoring numbers as well.
But 'save percentage'? That's a cumulative stat. Desbiens has a better save percentage than Burt or Macshmeyer et al. because she stops more pucks PER 100 SHOTS than the others. Currently (and of course it could change) her save percentage would be a new NCAA record, and by a pretty fair margin.
clarksoncluck
New member
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
I think (observe) that teams with low shots against, the off ice officials will credit just about anything as a shot. A dump in, a played puck, maybe even give a shot for a scrum around the net or even 2 shots for that. There are a bunch of good goalies playing NCAA Div 1 right now.
I guess my question is, if you put Chuli, Maschmeyer, Tiley in net for UW would the results be really different? Probably not. So therefore, why would you put Desbian on the PKaz list when in actual fact it's been expected for her to do well.
Nora Raty did some wonderful things but again on a really good team. Look for the goalies that are really giving their team a chance on most nights when they are out gunned.
I think (observe) that teams with low shots against, the off ice officials will credit just about anything as a shot. A dump in, a played puck, maybe even give a shot for a scrum around the net or even 2 shots for that. There are a bunch of good goalies playing NCAA Div 1 right now.
I guess my question is, if you put Chuli, Maschmeyer, Tiley in net for UW would the results be really different? Probably not. So therefore, why would you put Desbian on the PKaz list when in actual fact it's been expected for her to do well.
Nora Raty did some wonderful things but again on a really good team. Look for the goalies that are really giving their team a chance on most nights when they are out gunned.
clarksoncluck
New member
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
Try to look at the goaltending as objective.
Not from who you rally behind.
There is a player Genevive Lacasse (sp?) who plays for the Boston Blades (CWHL) and throughout her career has faced an enormous amount of shots. Both playing for Providence and the Blades. She is very good, and yet over more shots/game your stats will go down due to the team breaking down in front of you.
Trust me, MJ is less confident than you are!
Try to look at the goaltending as objective.
Not from who you rally behind.
There is a player Genevive Lacasse (sp?) who plays for the Boston Blades (CWHL) and throughout her career has faced an enormous amount of shots. Both playing for Providence and the Blades. She is very good, and yet over more shots/game your stats will go down due to the team breaking down in front of you.
Trust me, MJ is less confident than you are!
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
If you are going to cite "shots" stats in your argument, and then later argue that "shots" stats are inaccurate/'cooked'/meaningless etc. ... well, there's really not much point in continuing down that path, is there?
If you are going to cite "shots" stats in your argument, and then later argue that "shots" stats are inaccurate/'cooked'/meaningless etc. ... well, there's really not much point in continuing down that path, is there?
clarksoncluck
New member
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
It's ok to bail, your probably have never instructed goalies, coached hockey, really understood the game. It's ok to be a fan with comments.
It's ok to bail, your probably have never instructed goalies, coached hockey, really understood the game. It's ok to be a fan with comments.
bluffrinkrat
New member
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
Suspicious of goalies when the backups have the same stats? I would expect backup goalies to have better statistics than the starters due to the selectivity by the coaches in the teams they play against. As an example, Shyler Sletta only gave up one goal in her career with the Gophers (in her last game), but I don't recall coach Frost ever playing her against Wisconsin.
Right now Coyne or Desbiens would be my favorites to win the award. Way too early to tell though. I know only two goalies have won, but how does Desbiens stats stack up with Vetters when she won?
Suspicious of goalies when the backups have the same stats? I would expect backup goalies to have better statistics than the starters due to the selectivity by the coaches in the teams they play against. As an example, Shyler Sletta only gave up one goal in her career with the Gophers (in her last game), but I don't recall coach Frost ever playing her against Wisconsin.
Right now Coyne or Desbiens would be my favorites to win the award. Way too early to tell though. I know only two goalies have won, but how does Desbiens stats stack up with Vetters when she won?
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clarksoncluck
New member
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
I think if you would ask a Price, Rask or a Fluery, they will all give you the same answer. Less shots is better. Every once in a will a goalie will give you a game from heaven and get 45+ shots and only give up 1 or 2. But generally when a team is on it's heals it will implode as the game moves on.
To Robertearle's defense, sometimes getting 20 shots or less in a game can be toxic for a goalie. Too few can put a goalie to sleep, too many and the team in front evaporates.
Ideally, it would be great to ask the players about who they think causes them the most trouble and who the enjoy facing but also hate playing. I bet the best answers come from the players, not the coaches, not the media, and not the fans.
The players know who are tough to beat in general.
I think if you would ask a Price, Rask or a Fluery, they will all give you the same answer. Less shots is better. Every once in a will a goalie will give you a game from heaven and get 45+ shots and only give up 1 or 2. But generally when a team is on it's heals it will implode as the game moves on.
To Robertearle's defense, sometimes getting 20 shots or less in a game can be toxic for a goalie. Too few can put a goalie to sleep, too many and the team in front evaporates.
Ideally, it would be great to ask the players about who they think causes them the most trouble and who the enjoy facing but also hate playing. I bet the best answers come from the players, not the coaches, not the media, and not the fans.
The players know who are tough to beat in general.
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
Correct. Wisconsin hasn't even been outshot this year.
Correct. Wisconsin hasn't even been outshot this year.
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
Vetter actually had better numbers her Sophomore year when she was splitting time at goal (with Christine DuFour). The year she win Kaz, she was 30-2-5 with a 1.33 gaa and a .936 save percent. The NCAA record for gaa came her Soph year, 0.83 gaa.
Desbiens is currently at 0.67 gaa with a .964 save percent. Both would be new NCAA records, beating out Vetter's 0.83 and Noora Raty's .956
Vetter actually had better numbers her Sophomore year when she was splitting time at goal (with Christine DuFour). The year she win Kaz, she was 30-2-5 with a 1.33 gaa and a .936 save percent. The NCAA record for gaa came her Soph year, 0.83 gaa.
Desbiens is currently at 0.67 gaa with a .964 save percent. Both would be new NCAA records, beating out Vetter's 0.83 and Noora Raty's .956
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
If you can understand why playing against much weaker teams will inflate your back-up goalie stats, you are half way to understanding why playing for an elite team will inflate your starter's goalie stats.
If you can understand why playing against much weaker teams will inflate your back-up goalie stats, you are half way to understanding why playing for an elite team will inflate your starter's goalie stats.
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
Lots of times, teams that are ranked 2nd in the country have finalists for the Patty Kazmaier award. These numbers are pretty good. I don't think it's fair to eliminate Desbiens from consideration because she plays for Wisconsin and at some point she deserves credit if she keeps this up.
For the record, I thought Clarksonclucks original post was great!
Lots of times, teams that are ranked 2nd in the country have finalists for the Patty Kazmaier award. These numbers are pretty good. I don't think it's fair to eliminate Desbiens from consideration because she plays for Wisconsin and at some point she deserves credit if she keeps this up.
For the record, I thought Clarksonclucks original post was great!
FiveHoleFrenzy
Well-known member
bluffrinkrat
New member
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
I understand 100% of your argument, I just don't think ARD should be discounted for playing on an elite team. She's had a remarkable season so far playing in a conference that has some very good teams.
Not the same, but it's somewhat like saying Sandy Koufax didn't deserve those Cy Young awards because he pitched for one of the best defensive teams in baseball.
I understand 100% of your argument, I just don't think ARD should be discounted for playing on an elite team. She's had a remarkable season so far playing in a conference that has some very good teams.
Not the same, but it's somewhat like saying Sandy Koufax didn't deserve those Cy Young awards because he pitched for one of the best defensive teams in baseball.
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Ahockeydad
New member
Is this award similar to the Heisman where they give it to the top skill player on the top team? Is there seperate awards out there for the top Goalie, top defenseman, top wing, and top center. Personally I hate the Heisman because of the politics that have been talked about for this Patty K award. I tend to like the individual position awards that football gives out as it goes to the top player regardless of records. In Hockey I can see that would be difficult as it is more of a free flowing game with so much substitution more so than other sports.
bluffrinkrat
New member
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
Well, there is the Women's CCM Hockey Division 1st team All-Americans which would represent the top player at each position. It's hard to argue with last years choices.
In 2005 we went to every home game the Gophers played. It was just about impossible for me to decide between Wendell and Darwitz as to who deserved the award more. But, if forced to I would have voted for Darwitz because she set and still holds the NCAA record for points in a season. Did they give it to Wendell because of a higher gpa or more community involvement or maybe those seven short-handed goals she scored? I don't know, but supposedly there is more than just what they do on the ice that's involved. Hopefully, not politics.
Well, there is the Women's CCM Hockey Division 1st team All-Americans which would represent the top player at each position. It's hard to argue with last years choices.
In 2005 we went to every home game the Gophers played. It was just about impossible for me to decide between Wendell and Darwitz as to who deserved the award more. But, if forced to I would have voted for Darwitz because she set and still holds the NCAA record for points in a season. Did they give it to Wendell because of a higher gpa or more community involvement or maybe those seven short-handed goals she scored? I don't know, but supposedly there is more than just what they do on the ice that's involved. Hopefully, not politics.
clarksoncluck
New member
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
If any of the fans of UW are close enough, please ask MJ if ARD is the goalie that if he had to go to the wall with, would it be her??
Please anybody ask him! ??
I think he would choose several other goalies, but he is invested, so who knows?????
I challenge anyone to ask him who has exposure!!
Not to be a t*rd, but my guess is that he has about 4 to 5 other choices ahead of him which he would pick.
One can always hope...
If any of the fans of UW are close enough, please ask MJ if ARD is the goalie that if he had to go to the wall with, would it be her??
Please anybody ask him! ??
I think he would choose several other goalies, but he is invested, so who knows?????
I challenge anyone to ask him who has exposure!!
Not to be a t*rd, but my guess is that he has about 4 to 5 other choices ahead of him which he would pick.
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
Don't you think he would have recruited/brought in someone else if he wasn't happy with her? Why play her for three years if he's not secure?
Don't you think he would have recruited/brought in someone else if he wasn't happy with her? Why play her for three years if he's not secure?
pokechecker
Banned
Re: The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award
sounds like somebody finished off the bottle of liquor today they got for Christmas
At the beginning of the year the Village Idiot said Burt was going to be AA or PK or something and I pointed out that for the WI, MN, or BC goalie to do that they are going to have to put up some incredible numbers to separate themselves from the rest. The perception is that none of the three have to be all that good for their team to win.
Guess what, one of them has, in fact it could be argued Burt has as well, except that it just happens that Desbiens has put up even better numbers.
Sure, part of Desbiens incredible numbers is due to the people in front of her, but that is always the case with a top team, and a top goalie, and they are always the first to give credit to the people in front of them. But if you ask the people in front of them, they’ll say it’s the goalie.
If the season ended today and any goalie was nominated for AA or PK and their name wasn't Desbiens the award process would have to be fraudulent. But hey, I think we've enjoyed your drunken stupor as much as you did.
but who knows what will happen between now and the end of the season, there is a way to go yet
sounds like somebody finished off the bottle of liquor today they got for Christmas
At the beginning of the year the Village Idiot said Burt was going to be AA or PK or something and I pointed out that for the WI, MN, or BC goalie to do that they are going to have to put up some incredible numbers to separate themselves from the rest. The perception is that none of the three have to be all that good for their team to win.
Guess what, one of them has, in fact it could be argued Burt has as well, except that it just happens that Desbiens has put up even better numbers.
Sure, part of Desbiens incredible numbers is due to the people in front of her, but that is always the case with a top team, and a top goalie, and they are always the first to give credit to the people in front of them. But if you ask the people in front of them, they’ll say it’s the goalie.
If the season ended today and any goalie was nominated for AA or PK and their name wasn't Desbiens the award process would have to be fraudulent. But hey, I think we've enjoyed your drunken stupor as much as you did.
but who knows what will happen between now and the end of the season, there is a way to go yet