The new Super League is going down the tubes.

[MavsFan]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Times change...

And ought to be, well, yeah. But it isn't.

I am loathe to call college athletics "big business," but it's certainly not pocket change they're tossing about, even in hockey. They need to act accordingly. If you act like an amateur, you're going to get taken to the cleaners by the pros, plain and simple. That's true in any endeavor.

Loath, not loathe.

 

[4four4]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

A little bit of revisionist history there, but that's okay. Let's not forget, the first 10 NCAA tourneys were held in Colorado before Minnesota got its act together. But yeah, eventually, they probably should have booted us. I think part of it (often overlooked) is that Colorado is actually a nice place to visit for a weekend during hockey season. Better than most of the other options out there, at least. There's a sun. Might have played a role back in the day (although it's not helping Alabama - also a pretty nice place for the winter).

The Gophers have been playing hockey since 1921. Denver started in 1949 and CC started hockey back up for good in 1944. The Gophers won two championships before DU and CC started their historical programs.

Michigan and Michigan State left the WCHA because of travel they got sick and tired of flying out to Colorado when they could bus to other schools in the new CCHA.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Loath, not loathe.

Correct, my bad.

Doubt that's my first one today. Probably better now that I am off the phone.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

He's the one asking how others are hurt. Others tell him, and he blows it off. What kind of reaction do you expect? He's happy, many aren't. The mere fact that he dismisses those that are angry is what surprises me. This isn't about disagreement at this point. What's happened has happened. This is about emotion. The fact that he completely dismisses others anger while sitting in his glorious sanctimony is a little sick if you ask me.

What gets me about butzin is that he has asked for answers, and has flat out discounted, ignored, or has not understood them (for the most part). And there's the bonus of him implying that CC is riding on the bigger schools' coattails in this new conference, which under his stance would mean they should fold (which he also implies is an incorrect move), while other schools in the same situation SHOULD fold, because they can't support themselves.

Many of us were patient at first, providing examples, explanations, etc, and either he refused to acknowledge them, or could not provide a counter argument that had any solid points.

I will admit, he SEEMS to be coming around, but there's still a lot of ground to make up, IMO.

Regardless of wether or not you agree with all his points, my thought was that I don't find him a troll. We may not agree with his point of view, I think he's provided an educated and careful commentary on the subject and purely wish that he would be treasted as such. I don't disagree with the counter-points, but his statements have not been outrageous and shoud not so easily be dismissed without proper rebuttal. That is all.

 

[stuckinwi]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

The Gophers have been playing hockey since 1921. Denver started in 1949 and CC started hockey back up for good in 1944. The Gophers won two championships before DU and CC started their historical programs.

Michigan and Michigan State left the WCHA because of travel they got sick and tired of flying out to Colorado when they could bus to other schools in the new CCHA.

And we've two years on the Gophers at Tech...

 

[stuckinwi]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Regardless of wether or not you agree with all his points, my thought was that I don't find him a troll. We may not agree with his point of view, I think he's provided an educated and careful commentary on the subject and purely wish that he would be treasted as such. I don't disagree with the counter-points, but his statements have not been outrageous and shoud not so easily be dismissed without proper rebuttal. That is all.

I don't find him a troll at all. I disagree completely with almost everything he's said, but it's not been like a discussion with certain others... And there's nothing wtrong with a debate and differing opinions. (quick tell Congress)

edit: i'm forgetting words... it's clearly bedtime.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Times change...

And ought to be, well, yeah. But it isn't.

I am loathe to call college athletics "big business," but it's certainly not pocket change they're tossing about, even in hockey. They need to act accordingly. If you act like an amateur, you're going to get taken to the cleaners by the pros, plain and simple. That's true in any endeavor.

(EDIT: And it probably always was, there was just less public scrutiny, so "how" things were done mattered less. The Rockefellers of the world never did business with just a handshake. The Buffets of the world still don't.)

I tend to agree with you here. Generally speaking over the last few years, with the advent of colossal media contracts in college sports and the rising costs of college education and athletics programs across the country, college athletics has experienced an unprecedented and seismic worldview paradigm shift from an emphasis on education supplemented by the discipline and camaraderie of a college athletic program to a commercialized and professionalized approach to college sports beginning at the executive level.

In my view, SCSU's decision to leave the WCHA and join the NCHC is primarily based upon positive and more advantageous revenue projections, nothing more, nothing less. This is probably the right move for SCSU as a program that has consistently shown it has the ability to recruit top end players and compete at a high level with top 20 teams.

However, this doesn't necessarily legitimize the formation of the NCHC which admittedly formed to pursue "media opportunities" that rival the BTN cash cow. In my view, the NCHC essentially needed to cannibalize a few soft targets during this off season to further balance the conference distribution of teams with a couple weaker, but developing programs.

While the loss of SCSU weakens the WCHA to a degree, I don't see any remaining WCHA schools (i.e. MSUM, BSU, MTU or UAA) folding post 2013-14. As long as NC scheduling issues with top 20 teams can be hammered out to provide additional support to these programs, the growth potential is still inherently vibrant and optimistic.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I don't see the bhhc getting any additional revenue over the previous WCHA. You can project all you want but reality has a way of correcting your mistakes. Without ND really it is just a WCHA re-do. Nor do I see enhanced recruiting etc. I really don't care if teams do what they think they need to do, but media opportunities? Enhanced revenue?
I think pure and simple the bhhc needed additional teams in a bad way, St Cloud got in and WMU which had been turned down once, got in too.
Does this mean the conference tourney will be in St Paul?

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I do not find butzin to be a troll, since he actually has some knowledge, although terribly misguided, IMO. I do want that on record.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I don't see the bhhc getting any additional revenue over the previous WCHA. You can project all you want but reality has a way of correcting your mistakes. Without ND really it is just a WCHA re-do. Nor do I see enhanced recruiting etc. I really don't care if teams do what they think they need to do, but media opportunities? Enhanced revenue?
I think pure and simple the bhhc needed additional teams in a bad way, St Cloud got in and WMU which had been turned down once, got in too.
Does this mean the conference tourney will be in St Paul?

It's fairly obvious just based upon the comparative constituencies of each conference that the NCHC has more revenue generating and recruiting potential than a reformed WCHA with teams that often struggle to crack the top 20. It's also obvious that the NCHC always needed additional teams since its inception, especially a couple weaker but developing programs to normalize the skew...so your point is?

With Miami and WMU as former CCHA schools on board, the NCHC landscape may also look like a more attractive option to ND as well. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough what the self absorbed Dame from Notre wants to do. If ND joins, the NCHC looks much more promising and the dream of a national TV deal becomes more realistic. If not, the NCHC appears more superfluous and elitist; and they'll fall back to the same local RSN restraints in media coverage.

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

EDIT: Just saw your name, sorry! Somebody else made that Miami comment earlier - can't stick that one on me!

EDIT2: On the other hand, new conference, we have to cultivate new rivalries, so maybe I should stand by that? Tell me, are you guys particularly sensitive to south florida jokes?

We do have a bit of an inferiority complex, we were an university 87 years before the City of Miami was incorporated **** it!

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Wow, I read back a little. I am absolutely amazed that someone can be as uniformed, ignorant and just plain stupid as this bbutzin character.

 

[Skeeterman]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

SCSU to the rescue!! Now this league will not go down the tubes. You heard it here first.

I'm here to help.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

From an SCSU standpoint, this quote seems most appropriate:

"I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."
Groucho Marx

 

[Driftryder]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

The Gophers have been playing hockey since 1921. Denver started in 1949 and CC started hockey back up for good in 1944. The Gophers won two championships before DU and CC started their historical programs.

Michigan and Michigan State left the WCHA because of travel they got sick and tired of flying out to Colorado when they could bus to other schools in the new CCHA.

Our club team first played in 1895...

It appears that Johns Hopkins University of Baltimore may have been the first college in the United States to play hockey, having tied the Baltimore Athletic Club at the dedication of the newly built North Avenue Rink in Baltimore on December 26, 1894. The University of Minnesota may have been the second college in the nation to play the game. Although students from Yale and other eastern colleges visited Canada during Christmas vacation of 1894, Yale did not play the game until January of 1896 when they met Johns Hopkins. Columbia started hockey competition during the winter on 1896, while Brown and Harvard continued to play ice-polo through the season of 1896-1897.

Prior to meeting the Winnipeg Seven, the newly formed Minnesota team played three games against the Minneapolis Hockey Club, with the collegians winning two and losing one game.

The game against Winnipeg was played at the Athletic Park in downtown Minneapolis, located at Sixth Street and First Avenue North, just north of the famous West Hotel. The park was located on the present site of the renowned Butler Square Building, next to the current Target Center Arena. The park was the home of the professional Minneapolis Millers Baseball Club until they moved to Nicollet Park at Nicollet Avenue and Lake Street on June 19, 1896. Athletic Park was opened in 1891.

Minneapolis Ariel, February 16, 1895. Page 5:

“The University of Minnesota hockey team will play a game for the championship of Minneapolis against the Minneapolis Hockey Club at their rink, at the corner of Fourth Avenue and Eleventh Street South. The game is preparatory to the game to be played Monday afternoon by Winnipeg and the University of Minnesota. Winnipeg is champion of the world.* Winnipeg has returned from a rough trip through eastern Canada and has defeated without too much trouble Montréal, Toronto, Victoria, Ottawa, Québec, and the Limestone’s.

The University started practice two or three weeks ago and played against a Minneapolis team, being defeated 4-1. A week and one half ago that they defeated the same team 6-4. Tonight they play the tie off for the championship. Dr. H.A. Parkyn has been coaching the boys every afternoon. He has a couple of stars in Willis Walker and Russell.

 

[Split-N]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

...I'm sure we'll find out soon enough what the self absorbed Dame from Notre wants to do. If ND joins, the NCHC looks much more promising and the dream of a national TV deal becomes more realistic. If not, the NCHC appears more superfluous and elitist...

I wouldn't have said this 10 days ago but it's looking more and more probable that ND will wind up in the BT after all--and not just for hockey. The impending demolition of the Big East would seem to pretty much guarantee it. While the move toward four megaconferences (orchestrated by ESPN) may turn out to be a long-term disaster, it is a short-term inevitability and ND going to end up with a choice of going along (to the BT) or getting left behind. Much as ND values its football independence, none of the megaconferences are going to let ND keep its football cash cow all to itself.

Things could change again but for once, it doesn't look like ND is holding the trump card.

 

[Dirty Bottles]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

From an SCSU standpoint, this quote seems most appropriate:

"I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."
Groucho Marx

Ok, that's funny.

 

[4four4]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Our club team first played in 1895...

I stand corrected.

 

[SCSU Euro]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

So as much as I enjoy watching people get torn to shreds (I think this bbutzin would be a great nominee for the next Comedy Central Roast), I'm going to unsuccessfully suggest a couple discussion points.

-First, people are saying this will be a 10 team conference. I don't necessarily agree, but then with who? Anyone gonna nominate who they want to see or should see as 9th and 10th teams? Obviously ND if they accept, but that doesn't look likely at all. BSU? NMU? An Alaska school for the games?

-It was just brought up, but is anyone going to ask for something other than the X for a tourney? UND, tUMD and SCSU would obviously want it, Omaha would probably slightly prefer it to Denver, or it'd be a toss up. Its a long car ride for WMU but still doable, maybe even for some Miami fans. Or are DU/CC fans going to ask for a rotation? And if they do a rotation, I say throw Omaha in there on an unequal number of years (maybe 2 X, 2 Pepsi, 1 Omaha) with a new arena.

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

-It was just brought up, but is anyone going to ask for something other than the X for a tourney? UND, tUMD and SCSU would obviously want it, Omaha would probably slightly prefer it to Denver, or it'd be a toss up. Its a long car ride for WMU but still doable, maybe even for some Miami fans. Or are DU/CC fans going to ask for a rotation? And if they do a rotation, I say throw Omaha in there on an unequal number of years (maybe 2 X, 2 Pepsi, 1 Omaha) with a new arena.

If ND ends up in the mix I hope they would give Chicago a shot at least once. Maybe three or four years into conference play so if it bombs there wouldn't be negitive PR about the viability of the leauge. As far as the X/Omaha/Denver I wouldn't count on Miami fans making any impact on attendance at those locations. The Joe is probably on average a 3-5 hour trip for most Miami fans and our attendence there hasn't been the best. Change that to 9-12 hours or a flight and you probably won't have the best result, but we knew that heading into this.

That being said, the CCHA's are a pretty lame event, so if the NCHC evolves into something more like the Final 5 then maybe there will be more incentive for our fan base to make the trip. I know I'll be trying my hardest to be there regardless