The new Super League is going down the tubes.

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Not to mention Michigan Tech's arena renovations, new seats, new paint job, skyboxes installed, suites installed. The arena looks as nice or better than anything in the current WCHA, except UND.

Thank goodness you said "current." UND/MN are hands-down the best arenas in the nation. MTU is nice, I will admit.

 

[4four4]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Hypothetically speaking. Whoever's the next BSU.

Say, a Moorhead State. No, the NCHC probably won't take them.

They should because the Moorhead-Fargo area are a better hockey market than Denver and Colorado College.

 

[4four4]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

How about soccer-style relegation? Each season, the WCHA champion gets "promoted" to the NCHC, and the last place NCHC team gets relegated to the WCHA.

You know what I was thinking the same thing.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Nice cop out. We have plenty of time, and the bandwidth is free. Go ahead. Educate us.

Why are people upset? Maybe because the teams that jumped to the LTHC dismantled what was still a pretty strong conference. And they did it for no good reason.

You have no idea that it was "for no good reason." As for the details - well, Apple doesn't have to tell you why they make decision on how/when to release an iPod, and neither do the NCHC schools have to explain themselves to you. Suffice it say, programs do not normally make decision the expect to be bad for their futures. They may be wrong - mistakes get made all the time - but that's just uneducated prognostication on your part. Beyond that it's none of your business, nor mine. I want my school to so what's best for it. Considering how drastic the change is, I am pretty confident they feel it's a good deal. And I don't care if you feel the same, because they're not trying to please you.

I understand why people are upset, it's just not my problem. If you don't want to think positively about the future - if you'd prefer to cry over split milk, that's your choice.

MTU, for example, just spent a fortune on a new coach with the understanding that they would be competing in one of the two best leagues in college hockey.

Oops. Not my problem. We have contracts for a reason. MTU should've gotten one. Any competent risk manager or attorney would've told them that. Presumably, MTU has attorneys?

BSU built a new arena and thought they were joining a prestigious league, only to be told that they can go pound sand.

See above. Oops. No attorneys in Bemidji?

The league tournament, which was hands down the finest in the sport, will no longer exist either. All ten schools in the old WCHA will feel the brunt of that when the check from league headquarters is missing a 0 or two.

The NCHC schools weighed this, and made a decision. It's a big check, they knew what they were giving up.

there was also the ability to tell recruits that they would be competing in the WCHA against some of the best teams.

Sorry?

there was also the ability to tell recruits that they would be competing in the WCHA against some of the best teams. There was also the revenue generated by the league tournament. Again, the fans that bought all those tickets didn't come from Colorado. Those fans have just been robbed of a premier event and every school - even those precious LTHC schools - are robbed of a huge check from the conference.

As for the check, that's factored in. There will be other events for fans. If you're referring specifically to the fans in the Twin Cities, well, (a) not my problem and (b) talk to the University of Minnesota. For those of us outside the Twin Cities, there is the prospect of a better tourney now. One that travels.

Sure, you may be placated because these schools in the LTHC are more "elite" than those left behind

I didn't choose the Big 10. I would still choose to stick with Wisconsin and Minnesota. That wasn't an option.

And if so much as one school has to shutter its program (Hello Huntsville) the NCAA is very likely to remove our exemption and the tournament will go back to 12 teams.

That would suck. But talk to the CCHA that denied them first. Talk to the new 8-team WCHA that has plenty of room for them. This was a problem long before the NCHC, and will still be a problem long after. I don't see the eastern conferences stepping up either. No one conference, least of all one that hasn't even started play yet, can shoulder the blame for losing Alabama-Huntsville. It's a tad hypocritical to trot out a holier-than-though attitude when you're on the losing side of "elitism," but embrace it when it serves your interests.

Denver already had the WCHA headquarters, with all it's history and Championships and the best conference in the Hockey. the Super League will be a step down, so I don't really think Colorado gains, and in the end, Denver might not, either.

Well, I disagree, not a step down. And I was talking about Colorado Springs.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Interesting. I find it funny DU and CC supporters complain about nobody showing up for Tech, BSU and MSU-Mankato. The same can be said for DU and CC showing up in every other schools arena. Fans don't show up for the Colorado schools.

Sounds like a fantastic reason for a split. We clearly do not belong in the same conference.

 

[MavsFan]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You know what I was thinking the same thing.

I was being half-sarcastic, but really, in about ten years it would shake out who the real "elite" programs are, not just programs who happened to be on an "up" at the right moment in time.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

They should because the Moorhead-Fargo area are a better hockey market than Denver and Colorado College.

Define "better"? As in, you're expecting the Colorado Avalanche to relocate to Fargo, and you feel you could keep the arena full and still support your new WCHA team adequately?

That's sort of like comparing the U.S. and Portugal in soccer, I suppose. Portugal is clearly the better soccer country. But we still have more youth soccer players in America than Portugal has people overall, and that counts for something.

 

[stuckinwi]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

There is some small good in this. Michigan Tech has a realistic chance to dominate a conference again...will they? who knows but i wanted to see what Mel Pearson could do in the 10 team WCHA before the NCHC, not what they will do in this new WCHA. I just think the NCHC was very shortsighted and really doesn't help any of the haves nearly as much as they think.

Exactly, I really feel like it was our turn to rise up again after years of abuse. and I mean abuse. Like I said in an earlier post, no told CC, UMD, or DU to go to the curb when they were awful. And they have been awful... In the end will the new WCHA be easier then the NCHC. Yeah, probably... but I honestly don't want that. I want the WCHA... I want to see Tech beat times that for years I have hated (in the good old fashioned sports sense), teams I've seen when they've won national titles come to Tech.

If all this if for letting us sweep the Sioux a couple of years ago and beating DU at home this year to end the streak from hell I apologize. Can you guys quit screwing around now? ( I was going to go too... buuuuuuuuuuuuut noooo, they sucked too bad and decided not to when I saw it was on TV here... You won't catch me dead in Magness now.)

And as bad as this year was to tech... It's not the worst winning percentage the league as seen... That belongs to CC:

1987-88
8 Colorado College 35 3-31-1 .100 7

That year Tech had home ice... hosted UND with Mel Person as an assistant coach.


All this history... Poof. Sad day for me for sure.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

1987-88
8 Colorado College 35 3-31-1 .100 7

That was a fun year. Pretty sure Derek Pizzey was in goal, and he had insane save totals. A 70 shot game will do that, whether you're any good or not!

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You have no idea that it was "for no good reason." As for the details - well, Apple doesn't have to tell you why they make decision on how/when to release an iPod, and neither do the NCHC schools have to explain themselves to you. Suffice it say, programs do not normally make decision the expect to be bad for their futures. They may be wrong - mistakes get made all the time - but that's just uneducated prognostication on your part. Beyond that it's none of your business, nor mine. I want my school to so what's best for it. Considering how drastic the change is, I am pretty confident they feel it's a good deal. And I don't care if you feel the same, because they're not trying to please you.

I understand why people are upset, it's just not my problem. If you don't want to think positively about the future - if you'd prefer to cry over split milk, that's your choice.



Oops. Not my problem. We have contracts for a reason. MTU should've gotten one. Any competent risk manager or attorney would've told them that. Presumably, MTU has attorneys?



See above. Oops. No attorneys in Bemidji?



The NCHC schools weighed this, and made a decision. It's a big check, they knew what they were giving up.



Sorry?



As for the check, that's factored in. There will be other events for fans. If you're referring specifically to the fans in the Twin Cities, well, (a) not my problem and (b) talk to the University of Minnesota. For those of us outside the Twin Cities, there is the prospect of a better tourney now. One that travels.



I didn't choose the Big 10. I would still choose to stick with Wisconsin and Minnesota. That wasn't an option.



That would suck. But talk to the CCHA that denied them first. Talk to the new 8-team WCHA that has plenty of room for them. This was a problem long before the NCHC, and will still be a problem long after. I don't see the eastern conferences stepping up either. No one conference, least of all one that hasn't even started play yet, can shoulder the blame for losing Alabama-Huntsville. It's a tad hypocritical to trot out a holier-than-though attitude when you're on the losing side of "elitism," but embrace it when it serves your interests.



Well, I disagree, not a step down. And I was talking about Colorado Springs.

My Parise the ignorance, stupidity, lack of big picture focus.....

I may decide to take charity and respond to this horrid post next Monday, but since I need to be up very early tomorrow for a vacation/wedding trip, I won't bother with my insults at this time. But this is one juicy post to shred. *ing pathetic.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

My Parise the ignorance, stupidity, lack of big picture focus.....

I may decide to take charity and respond to this horrid post next Monday, but since I need to be up very early tomorrow for a vacation/wedding trip, I won't bother with my insults at this time. But this is one juicy post to shred. *ing pathetic.

Haha, I'll have to remember to come back and check.

But it's not ignorance, or stupidity, or lack of big picture focus (big picture focus is for people who can't manage the details). You may not like it, but I actually know what I'm talking about on the contract side... these investments should be protected somehow. Someone, somewhere, thought through every clause and detail in these conference agreements. And all of this is preventable with foresight. The University of Colorado paid many million to leave a conference... happens all the time.

I am trying really hard not to get too personal, but I am really curious what you do professionally. Being nice just isn't in the cards for a large organization.

Let me throw this out, though. If you're so sure I am wrong, or what I am saying is wrong... why doesn't the WCHA sue the NCHC? If it's so devastating, where's the lawsuit? Schools/conferences have been sued for much less. And then I ask, are we talking contract, tort, what exactly has the NCHC done wrong, beyond mere ethics? Really done wrong? If you guys are going to be dramatic about this, well, we live in a nation of laws. If the NCHC is so evil, surely there's some legal recourse here.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Oops. Not my problem. We have contracts for a reason. MTU should've gotten one. Any competent risk manager or attorney would've told them that. Presumably, MTU has attorneys?



See above. Oops. No attorneys in Bemidji?

These things were brought up because the NCHC is about like minded institutions with a commitment to hockey, not to ask for your pity. Michigan Tech is committed, Bemidji State is committed. And yes, i do think the WCHA NCHC schools do owe it to the leftover WCHA schools to tell them while the hell they left. You might not think so but guess what...you're on the other side of this. Michigan Tech deserves to know why they are being left behind when they are down, where as Denver, CC, North Dakota were all supported during their dark years. If nothing else, I hope this brings about a new era of success where DU, CC, and UND regret giving Michigan Tech the chance to put itself back where it belongs.

 

[4four4]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Define "better"? As in, you're expecting the Colorado Avalanche to relocate to Fargo, and you feel you could keep the arena full and still support your new WCHA team adequately?

That's sort of like comparing the U.S. and Portugal in soccer, I suppose. Portugal is clearly the better soccer country. But we still have more youth soccer players in America than Portugal has people overall, and that counts for something.

Any market in the state of hockey is better than any where else in the country. Period. Moorhead supports grassroots hockey like no other in the state of Minnesota. Through thick and thin they support hockey and more importantly they will come out in droves when the green light goes on. Speaking of the NHL they produce NHL players and dang good ones. Denver and Colorado Springs? Lets just say it needs work.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

These things were brought up because the NCHC is about like minded institutions with a commitment to hockey, not to ask for your pity. Michigan Tech is committed, Bemidji State is committed. And yes, i do think the WCHA NCHC schools do owe it to the leftover WCHA schools to tell them while the hell they left. You might not think so but guess what...you're on the other side of this. Michigan Tech deserves to know why they are being left behind when they are down, where as Denver, CC, North Dakota were all supported during their dark years.

Deserve? Was that in the conference agreement?

Owe? Says who? (or what instrument?)

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Deserve? Was that in the conference agreement?

Owe? Says who (or what instrument)?

This conference was built by gentleman that were good people and if any of these schools want to have a relationship with Michigan Tech in the future, they probably should show some respect and actually have the nerve to explain their actions. Do I expect to actually ever see the real reasons in print in the newspaper? no but when i dig into with my sources, I certainly do expect to hear reasons. I know some of them and they all seem pretty horse**** to me right now. Why are we talking about a conference agreement? This isn't about what was on paper this about a small close nit group. There are only 59 hockey programs. Burning bridges with >12% isn't exactly good for business.

 

[4four4]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Sounds like a fantastic reason for a split. We clearly do not belong in the same conference.

I always felt Minnesota was being nice to the Colorado schools for even letting them be in the old WCHA conference. If DU and CC didn't exist we would still have Michigan and Michigan State in the WCHA.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

This conference was built by gentleman that were good people and if any of these schools want to have a relationship with Michigan Tech in the future, they probably should show some respect and actually have the nerve to explain their actions.

Moving my edit here, it's a fitting response.

You talk as if somebody is somehow entitled to something. You don't even have to give someone a reason why you want to divorce them (irreconcilable differences) - it's enough that you want to.

Which is exactly what this sounds like - a bad divorce. And you guys forgot to get a pre-nup. Probably because you were in love.

But as for this naive gentlemen nonsense. More than one business has broken up under ugly circumstances, and they still go back to working with one another. First invitation to play Minnesota or North Dakota, you'll take it, because it's smart business, no matter how bruised your ego is. And presumably the folks in your athletics department are professionals. Good, smart, professional people, who know better than to rely on a handshake when millions are at stake.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I always felt Minnesota was being nice to the Colorado schools for even letting them be in the old WCHA conference. If DU and CC didn't exist we would still have Michigan and Michigan State in the WCHA.

A little bit of revisionist history there, but that's okay. Let's not forget, the first 10 NCAA tourneys were held in Colorado before Minnesota got its act together. But yeah, eventually, they probably should have booted us. I think part of it (often overlooked) is that Colorado is actually a nice place to visit for a weekend during hockey season. Better than most of the other options out there, at least. There's a sun. Might have played a role back in the day (although it's not helping Alabama - also a pretty nice place for the winter).

 

[stuckinwi]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Moving my edit here, it's a fitting response.

You talk as if somebody is somehow entitled to something. You don't even have to give someone a reason why you want to divorce them (irreconcilable differences) - it's enough that you want to.

Which is exactly what this sounds like - a bad divorce. And you guys forgot to get a pre-nup. Probably because you were in love.

But as for this naive gentlemen nonsense. More than one business has broken up under ugly circumstances, and they still go back to working with one another. First invitation to play Minnesota or North Dakota, you'll take it, because it's smart business, no matter how bruised your ego is. And presumably the folks in your athletics department are professionals. Good, smart, professional people, who know better than to rely on a handshake when millions are at stake.

Being completely blunt here. This attitude is what frustrates me about the way this changes have happened. This is not the college hockey attitude that I remember, that make me love the sport. Get a pre-nup? in '51?

And even though it your eyes bbutzin it's naive... but a handshake ought to be enough.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Being completely blunt here. This attitude is what frustrates me about the way this changes have happened. This is not the college hockey attitude that I remember, that make me love the sport. Get a pre-nup? in '51?

And even though it your eyes bbutzin it's naive... but a handshake ought to be enough.

Times change...

And ought to be, well, yeah. But it isn't.

I am loathe to call college athletics "big business," but it's certainly not pocket change they're tossing about, even in hockey. They need to act accordingly. If you act like an amateur, you're going to get taken to the cleaners by the pros, plain and simple. That's true in any endeavor.

(EDIT: And it probably always was, there was just less public scrutiny, so "how" things were done mattered less. The Rockefellers of the world never did business with just a handshake. The Buffets of the world still don't.)