The new Super League is going down the tubes.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

But as for this naive gentlemen nonsense. More than one business has broken up under ugly circumstances, and they still go back to working with one another. First invitation to play Minnesota or North Dakota, you'll take it, because it's smart business, no matter how bruised your ego is. And presumably the folks in your athletics department are professionals. Good, smart, professional people, who know better than to rely on a handshake when millions are at stake.

It's not a smart business move to play Minnesota or North Dakota unless they agree to come to Houghton. Will they agree to that? I highly doubt it.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Wow, I read back a little. I am absolutely amazed that someone can be as uniformed, ignorant and just plain stupid as this bbutzin character.

I really do not understand why any opinion that isn't the same as yours is uninformed, ignorant, or just plain stupid. I am most certainly not uninformed - criticize all you want, but that one's plainly inaccurate; ignorant, possibly; and just plain stupid, I don't think so. Did somebody mention Congress? It's a sad commentary on the U.S. that any dissenting opinion is branded evil. Because really, that's what it comes down to... there are now 8 major programs that have made a decision that you must think is uninformed, ignorant, and stupid. That seems unlikely. You just disagree. And anybody you disagree with is undoubtedly evil, the enemy, probably clubs baby seals, hates America, maybe isn't even American, need I go on? Is it so hard to just agree to disagree?

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

It's not a smart business move to play Minnesota or North Dakota unless they agree to come to Houghton. Will they agree to that? I highly doubt it.

That depends on how you structure it. More lessons that can be learned from football. Colorado is getting paid handsomely to go to play at Ohio State (and get clobbered) this weekend. No return home game for us in the cards (unfortunately, but that's the Big 10).

Minnesota may not agree, true, but only because they'll have a litany of other non-conference teams to play closer to home. They may never go to Houghton again, but the Gophers will still end up at Mankato and Bemidji someday. By the same token, maybe you guys can draw Michigan or Michigan State?

 

[geezer]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

there are now 8 major programs that have made a decision that you must think is uninformed, ignorant, and stupid. That seems unlikely.

without going into the rest of your rant, it's obvious with the scrambling for relevancy now that's exactly what happened when the long shot dream of a "national" conference with BC, BU, ND, et al blew up in those schools faces. It's proven to be an uninformed, ignorant, and stupid gamble.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

So as much as I enjoy watching people get torn to shreds (I think this bbutzin would be a great nominee for the next Comedy Central Roast), I'm going to unsuccessfully suggest a couple discussion points.

-First, people are saying this will be a 10 team conference. I don't necessarily agree, but then with who? Anyone gonna nominate who they want to see or should see as 9th and 10th teams? Obviously ND if they accept, but that doesn't look likely at all. BSU? NMU? An Alaska school for the games?

-It was just brought up, but is anyone going to ask for something other than the X for a tourney? UND, tUMD and SCSU would obviously want it, Omaha would probably slightly prefer it to Denver, or it'd be a toss up. Its a long car ride for WMU but still doable, maybe even for some Miami fans. Or are DU/CC fans going to ask for a rotation? And if they do a rotation, I say throw Omaha in there on an unequal number of years (maybe 2 X, 2 Pepsi, 1 Omaha) with a new arena.

Much more interesting discussion here... potential team #10... hmm.

As for the tourney, I am sure occasionally DU/CC will want it to swing through the Pepsi Center. There isn't an obvious location for a permanent tourney, so I am sure it'd rotate. I don't see Denver being too controversial, though. It's a good venue, a great time of year to travel here, and if we had to, we could mostly fill it locally anyways. Colorado Springs/CC don't have a venue large enough.

Chicago works well for the Colorado schools too, actually. Better than Minneapolis, just because of the flights situation (we're a United hub).

How big is the venue in Omaha? It's central.

Is the Ralph big enough?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

That depends on how you structure it. More lessons that can be learned from football. Colorado is getting paid handsomely to go to play at Ohio State (and get clobbered) this weekend. No return home game for us in the cards (unfortunately, but that's the Big 10).

Minnesota may not agree, true, but only because they'll have a litany of other non-conference teams to play closer to home. They may never go to Houghton again, but the Gophers will still end up at Mankato and Bemidji someday. By the same token, maybe you guys can draw Michigan or Michigan State?

Michigan and Michigan State haven't been to Houghton since the 80s. You really don't have a concept of geography...Michigan and MSU are about twice as far from Houghton as Wisconsin & Minnesota. This isn't college football...there isn't enough money to just pay MTU "handsomely" to come to Minnesota or North Dakota.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

without going into the rest of your rant, it's obvious with the scrambling for relevancy now that's exactly what happened when the long shot dream of a "national" conference with BC, BU, ND, et al blew up in those schools faces. It's proven to be an uninformed, ignorant, and stupid gamble.

You really don't know that. Evidence? Or is this your gut talking.

For the Colorado schools, I can say with certainty we are still happier with the NCHC today than we would have been in the WCHA-minus-UM/UW. The NCHC as conceived is better for us than the WCHA-minus would have been.

That's not true for every team, I acknowledge. SCSU probably would've been better off with the WCHA-minus scenario. Not us, probably not North Dakota, probably not UNO - NCHC will work for us. Nobody is forcing St. Cloud to follow. Nobody forced Miami and WMU to follow either. Somebody must think it's a good idea.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

you really don't know that. Evidence? Or is this your gut talking.

For the colorado schools, i can say with certainty we are still happier with the nchc today than we would have been in the wcha-minus-um/uw. the nchc as conceived is better for us than the wcha-minus would have been.

that's not true for every team, i acknowledge. Scsu probably would've been better off with the wcha-minus scenario. Not us, probably not north dakota, probably not uno - nchc will work for us. Nobody is forcing st. Cloud to follow. Nobody forced miami and wmu to follow either. Somebody must think it's a good idea.

why?!?!

 

[MavsFan]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

...the Gophers will still end up at Mankato ... someday.

I'll believe that when I see it.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Michigan and Michigan State haven't been to Houghton since the 80s. You really don't have a concept of geography...Michigan and MSU are about twice as far from Houghton as Wisconsin & Minnesota. This isn't college football...there isn't enough money to just pay MTU "handsomely" to come to Minnesota or North Dakota.

Probably not, no, but that can change. Lots of things that have been set in stone since the 80s are changing. I do know the physical geography (do you guys ride buses?), not the human geography. Does in-state not matter up there? (I really don't know.) I would think you could cultivate rivalries in Michigan - maybe not, maybe it's just too far. Regardless, it's something I think you guys should pursue as an option. Nothing you can do about Wisconsin/Minnesota, and UND isn't as close.

Or are we back to just venting, not looking for options for the future? If we're still just piling on, well, do give me a heads up.

Wisconsin, you suck, you screwed us, boooooooo!

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I'll believe that when I see it.

Call your state senator.

Or call Donny Lucia at home. At 2am. Every night. That works for me too.

 

[geezer]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You really don't know that. Evidence? Or is this your gut talking.

I need to provide evidence that BC, BU, and ND are not in the NCHC? It's obvious that the failure to get any of their big name targets on board is a blow. I certainly don't blame them for trying to salvage something from the situation with the replacements.
What's not proven yet with hard numbers is that the NCHC will give member schools no advantage in ticket sales or recruiting, and will be a lot more expensive to operate. But if you're paying attention, the likely outcome is obvious.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Just a year ago this site abounded with contemptuous dismissals of any suggestion that college hockey was vulnerable to the pressures that confront and reshape "major" college sports, such as football and basketball. Arguments were that college hockey's exemption stems from the small size of the fan base, especially the T.V. fan base, and the small amounts of profit college hockey is capable of producing. Any new predictions about how and why college hockey will or will not change, or why it will or will not share the challenges and changes facing major college sports - besides change is bound to fail?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Probably not, no, but that can change. Lots of things that have been set in stone since the 80s are changing. I do know the physical geography (do you guys ride buses?), not the human geography. Does in-state not matter up there? (I really don't know.) I would think you could cultivate rivalries in Michigan - maybe not, maybe it's just too far. Regardless, it's something I think you guys should pursue as an option. Nothing you can do about Wisconsin/Minnesota, and UND isn't as close.

Or are we back to just venting, not looking for options for the future? If we're still just piling on, well, do give me a heads up.

Wisconsin, you suck, you screwed us, boooooooo!

Houghton to Grand Forks is shorter than Houghton to Ann Arbor by bus. Do I hope our new coach can use his relationship with Red & Michigan to get the Wolverines to Houghton again? Of course. Michigan Tech hosts the GLI in Detroit with Michigan and Michigan State every year...this is where your ignorance shines through. You don't know that Houghton is closer to Madison, Duluth, Minneapolis, St Cloud, & Grand Forks than Ann Arbor (and for the most part East Lansing). You don't know about the GLI...you really don't seem to know anything about our situation.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Uh, no clownshoes. What was getting brusque dismissals was your constant bleating about how college hockey should separate from the universities and just be local major junior teams. Keep moving those goalposts.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

why?!?!

You know my answer to that. Do you get a kick out of making me repeat myself? Because you know I'll be, from your perspective, blunt and offensive, and become a punching bag yet again. You'll pile on about how we don't care about the future of college hockey, we are selfish, we are the devil.

But here's your answer:

Better mix of teams.

We are trading these teams:

Bemidji State
MS-Mankato
Michigan Tech
Alaska-Anchorage

For these teams:

Miami
Western Michigan
(possibly) Notre Dame

We lose 4 conference teams we don't want to play.

In return, we get more games against teams we do want to play, a few new and more-interesting opponents, the remote possibility of Notre Dame, and a smaller conference schedule, with more non-conference openings to play the teams that bolted for the Big 10.

If we don't make a single dollar in new revenue (and I don't expect we will)... if this is only a break-even move... even if it costs us a few dollars per year, it will have been a good move for us.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Houghton to Grand Forks is shorter than Houghton to Ann Arbor by bus. Do I hope our new coach can use his relationship with Red & Michigan to get the Wolverines to Houghton again? Of course. Michigan Tech hosts the GLI in Detroit with Michigan and Michigan State every year...this is where your ignorance shines through. You don't know that Houghton is closer to Madison, Duluth, Minneapolis, St Cloud, & Grand Forks than Ann Arbor (and for the most part East Lansing). You don't know about the GLI...you really don't seem to know anything about our situation.

Yes, I am well aware of all that. I asked a question about in-state. I suppose you did answer, in a roundabout way... your short bus ride is more important than any sense of intra-Michigan competition. Okay, I get that. A tourney isn't the same as a real rivalry and regular season scheduling. But whatever, at this point you're not even reading whatI am writing.

Here's what I have to say about your longer bus rides - too **** bad.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I need to provide evidence that BC, BU, and ND are not in the NCHC? It's obvious that the failure to get any of their big name targets on board is a blow. I certainly don't blame them for trying to salvage something from the situation with the replacements.
What's not proven yet with hard numbers is that the NCHC will give member schools no advantage in ticket sales or recruiting, and will be a lot more expensive to operate. But if you're paying attention, the likely outcome is obvious.

Nobody ever expected BC or BU to join.

ND is not yet an impossibility

See my reply to Shirtless Guy about "why." I'll copy the important parts here:

We lose 4 conference teams we don't want to play.

In return, we get more games against teams we do want to play, a few new and more-interesting opponents, the remote possibility of Notre Dame, and a smaller conference schedule, with more non-conference openings to play the teams that bolted for the Big 10.

If we don't make a single dollar in new revenue (and I don't expect we will)... if this is only a break-even move... even if it costs us a few dollars per year, it will have been a good move for us.


EDIT: For the record, when folks say the NCHC was really a ploy to dump BSU, Mankato UAA, and Tech, I don't entirely disagree. Obviously, the official line will be more PC than that. But there's probably a lot of truth in that. Which I am okay with.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Hey...I have a novel idea for the #9 or #10 team...

 

[geezer]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

We lose 4 conference teams we don't want to play.

In return, we get more games against teams we do want to play, a few new and more-interesting opponents, the remote possibility of Notre Dame, and a smaller conference schedule, with more non-conference openings to play the teams that bolted for the Big 10.

If we don't make a single dollar in new revenue (and I don't expect we will)... if this is only a break-even move... even if it costs us a few dollars per year, it will have been a good move for us.

I gotcha. I was confusing you with the people who thought this would be a big national money maker for the schools and lead to a higher quality recruit compared to the B10 teams. Your admission that the goal is not financial, but just to dump what you see as less interesting opponents is kind of refreshing. And yes, it will cost your school more money.