Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.
What gets me about butzin is that he has asked for answers, and has flat out discounted, ignored, or has not understood them (for the most part). And there's the bonus of him implying that CC is riding on the bigger schools' coattails in this new conference, which under his stance would mean they should fold (which he also implies is an incorrect move), while other schools in the same situation SHOULD fold, because they can't support themselves.
Many of us were patient at first, providing examples, explanations, etc, and either he refused to acknowledge them, or could not provide a counter argument that had any solid points.
I will admit, he SEEMS to be coming around, but there's still a lot of ground to make up, IMO.
No, I think what happened was is that (early on) you took for granted certain assumptions that I still needed spelled out. Remember, I'm not on here every day (2001, but a couple hundred posts... basically, for score updates. Otherwise, just a lurker.)
I also do not agree with some of your assumptions, for example, that the NCHC bears responsibility for UAH or BGSU - schools that long ago could've been brought into the fold, propped up, and still could be. Just not by us. Mankato I hadn't thought about, I admitted. But I don't see any other schools on the verge of folding - you simply assume that it'll happen. That's a pretty big gap to bridge, especially when neither of us really knows. I see the same number of conferences, the same number of teams, with some re-shuffling. You think attendance will plummet with "lesser" (I use that word cautiously) competition, I am not so sure. That's pretty much where we're stuck.
I absolutely agree CC is riding the coattails of Denver, in particular. We have good tradition (which gets bonus points from the history of the Broadmoor, being one of the earliest major college hockey programs, host of the earliest tourneys, etc.), and some success, but not a lot recently. I never said we weren't cashing in a winning lottery ticket - I merely said that you'd all do the same thing if the opportunity presented itself.
I fundamentally do not have a problem with a hierarchy of conferences. And not only do I disagree with you that it hampers growth, I think it may be good for growth. I don't think we're misunderstanding each other anymore, I just think we see the future differently. I think schools will "advance" (again using that word cautiously) from "less-prestigious" conferences to "more-prestigious" ones, and new schools will be brought into the fold to replace them. Still growth, just a different kind of growth. And within each conference, I an confident a hierarchy will evolve. We can;t all win every year... but that's just the nature of things, and it does not negate the possibility that any individual school might still feel better off losing in a "more-prestigious" conference than winning in a "less-prestigious" one. Again, debatable. St. Cloud just made a decision today that a lot of you probably thinks is (a) wrong, (b) insane, (c) stupid, I could go on. Clearly, somebody disagreed.
Most importantly, I am comfortable with the notion that life is not fair. I remember the days when college hockey looked out for the greater good, and I also think that was a bit of an illusion even then. The greater good just happened to coincide with individual program good (or at least neutral). Even in the "good old days" not many school were doing things that were blatantly bad for them.
