The new Super League is going down the tubes.

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Explain to me how not having a contingency plan is Bruce McLeod's fault? Are the records of the WCHA members feeling its necessary to have such plans and want to spend money developing them? IF McLeod had spent money developing contingency plans for god knows what and DU & UND's playoff share checks were smaller than expected...he'd still be a buffoon in your eyes. I think this is a horse***** excuse for just wanting out for whatever stupid reason DU and UND want to come up with. The simple truth is Minnesota and Wisconsin left to associate with schools that they have a longer history with in every sphere except Hockey. Instead of stepping up and taking charge of the situation UND and DU ran away from their conference mates to create a new league without the guarantee of Notre Dame, a larger travel footprint, no real geographic center. Bravo on overreacting.

Bruce McLeod was the commissioner/leader of the conference. As the leader of the conference, it is fair to expect contingency plans for different, foreseeable circumstances. When there is not a contingency plan in place, that shows a lack of leadership. Again, this was just one example that shows that McLeod was a poor leader(IMO, if you feel that not having contingency plans in place doesn't make a difference, then obviously this wouldn't worry you in the least). This is one of the reasons that the teams that split cited as why they left.

I will clarify again, I do not, nor did I ever, agree with the decision made by the schools that left. I do not fault Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Ohio State and Penn State for wanting to associate in yet another sport. However, when there is a huge change in the landscape of college hockey, it is naive to think that other schools that have made huge investments in the sport will sit idly by (look at college football). I felt that the WCHA would have still been a top college hockey conference in the country, even without Wisconsin and Minnesota, and I hoped that my school would have stayed. It didn't happen, so at this point, I hope for nothing more than absolute success for all of college hockey as we move forward into uncharted territory.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Bruce McLeod was the commissioner/leader of the conference. As the leader of the conference, it is fair to expect contingency plans for different, foreseeable circumstances. When there is not a contingency plan in place, that shows a lack of leadership. Again, this was just one example that shows that McLeod was a poor leader(IMO, if you feel that not having contingency plans in place doesn't make a difference, then obviously this wouldn't worry you in the least). This is one of the reasons that the teams that split cited as why they left.

McLeod is not the president of the WCHA, he is the commissioner, he does what the members vote on him to do. Its not like he's a commissioner of a sports league like the NBA, NFL, MLB where he is more of a go between between the players, owners and fans. He's basically there to take care of business that he is told to do by the members. Do you really think if UND and DU went before the other ADs during a league meeting and said, "Minnesota and Wisconsin are leaving, if you don't want us to leave, we want Bruce McLeod fired" that the rest of the WCHA wouldn't have listened? It just seems stupid to me the way that the NCHC teams reacted. From everything that I have read, there was official indication to the rest of the WCHA that this was going to happen because they were "upset with McLeod" and the status quo. It seems like a very silly scapegoat excuse to me, not even close to the reality of the situation.

 

[Happy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I bet he applied, but didn't get in!

No, Denver is weak in the hard sciences. I am sure if all I wanted to do is ski, drink and watch women's golf it would have been a great school.

 

[ecbrevik]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

SF23, there isn't anything you or anyone else can say to change the minds of people like SG. These arguements and the venom directed towards UND and DU are not based on logic, they are based on emotion.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Bruce McLeod was commissioner when the two highest profile members [WI, MN] left the conference. It doesn't matter who's fault it was or why it happened. It happened on his watch and any business when a monumental event occurs you better implement a plan of action or your butt may get thrown in the fire.

DU, UND & Miami came up with a plan of action and UMD, CC and UNO bought in. Notre Dame is still sitting on the fence, waiting to see which way the BCS winds will blow.

If Notre Dame joins the Big Ten with Texas, its not the end of the world for the NCHC. If it were me, I'd hire Gino to be NCHC Commissioner and add St. Cloud as the 7th member. If Notre Dame remains independent in football, I've heard they'll join the NCHC. The problem with Notre Dame is they could always change their mind and join a BCS conference.

I like the idea of seven team conferences and having two extra weekends of non-conference foes.

 

[Bale]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Bruce McLeod was commissioner when the two highest profile members [WI, MN] left the conference. It doesn't matter who's fault it was or why it happened. It happened on his watch and any business when a monumental event like this occurs you better implement a plan of action or your butt may get thrown in the fire.

DU, UND & Miami came up with a plan of action and UMD, CC and UNO bought in. Notre Dame is still sitting on the fence, waiting to see which way the BCS winds will blow.

If Notre Dame joins the Big Ten with Texas, its not the end of the world for the NCHC. If it were me, I'd hire Gino to be NCHC Commissioner and add St. Cloud as the 7th member. If Notre Dame remains independent in football, I've heard they'll join the NCHC. The problem with Notre Dame is they could always change their mind and join a BCS conference.

I like the idea of seven team conferences and having two extra weekends of non-conference foes.

A plan of action like asking another 2 teams to join your conference to make up for the loss? Hmmm, seems like there was one.

You guys can sit and look for a scapegoat all you want, but this wasn't about bad leadership. It was about a few schools not getting there way, feeling like they might not make as much money, and leaving to get what they wanted. That's your schools' perogative. That's fine. Please don't find some random event from years ago as the catalyst for leaving now. There were plans in place that were voted on and your schools didn't like it. That's a whole different scenario than what's being thrown out there.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

A plan of action like asking another 2 teams to join your conference to make up for the loss? Hmmm, seems like there was one.

You can't replace Minnesota and Wisconsin. Its that simple, so you move forward with a new tighter league and hope for the best.

You take just one major school out of any of the BCS conferences and the glue that holds the leagues together unravels. Its true in NCAA football, hoops and now hockey.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

SF23, there isn't anything you or anyone else can say to change the minds of people like SG. These arguements and the venom directed towards UND and DU are not based on logic, they are based on emotion.

Say whatever you want about me but my thinking on this is very rational. I have yet to see one argument for the NCHC and abandoning the rest of the WCHA that can't logically be explained as an overreaction to an event that NO ONE in the WCHA had any control over. Wisconsin and Minnesota left. McLeod, Mauer, and Jesus Christ couldn't stop that from happening once the BTN got started and Pegula dropped down money to create Penn State's team. People like DG try to irrationally blame McLeod for something that he couldn't have stopped. To sit here and think my comments are not based on logic is just plain silly. I've thought about this plenty and it just doesn't make any sense right now...if they had Notre Dame, BC and BU...fine, go be some power conference with a National TV deal (Still kinda laughable), but why make the move before Notre Dame is in? Why react so quickly vs letting things play out a little more? It seems too reactive and not well thought out.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

McLeod is not the president of the WCHA, he is the commissioner, he does what the members vote on him to do. Its not like he's a commissioner of a sports league like the NBA, NFL, MLB where he is more of a go between between the players, owners and fans. He's basically there to take care of business that he is told to do by the members. Do you really think if UND and DU went before the other ADs during a league meeting and said, "Minnesota and Wisconsin are leaving, if you don't want us to leave, we want Bruce McLeod fired" that the rest of the WCHA wouldn't have listened? It just seems stupid to me the way that the NCHC teams reacted. From everything that I have read, there was official indication to the rest of the WCHA that this was going to happen because they were "upset with McLeod" and the status quo. It seems like a very silly scapegoat excuse to me, not even close to the reality of the situation.

As I've posted before, I'm personally unhappy UND, DU and the others chose to make the move.

But I agree with DG and others about what I consider to be a general lack of foresight or leadership coming out of the WCHA offices.

How long has a Big 10 hockey conference been talked about on this message board alone? Since the beginning? I think it even made it into the newbies guide. Most people here (i.e., general fans and those without any real connection to the teams and leagues involved) thought it would never happen.

It was McLeod's obligation to see it coming. Plan for contingencies that might not happen, but if they do, how do we handle them. It's simple business leadership 101.

Maybe, back when SCSU or Mankato, or UAA joined the league, someone at the league offices proposes, as a condition, that all schools agree to a punitive exit fee for schools wanting to leave the league. Maybe such a penalty has an impact when Penn St. forms a team and discussion of a Big 10 conference starts.

Maybe ten years ago the league encourages and supports the development of a Big 10 schedule, within the confines of the current conference make up, which lessens the need to form their own conference. Maybe, once the Big 10 network is formed, the WCHA embraces the network, supports it and tries to make it a business partner instead of a potential adversary.

Maybe none of these steps have one iota of impact. But I've seen no evidence that the WCHA league leadership has done anything but react, after the fact.

I don't agree with the move by UND, but if part of the reason they did so was lack of leadership at a conference level (disclaimer: I have literally no idea as to the real reasons for the move), I have a hard time disagreeing.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You can't replace Minnesota and Wisconsin. Its that simple, so you move forward with a new tighter league and hope for the best.

You take just one major school out of any of the BCS conferences and the glue that holds the leagues together unravels. Its true in NCAA football, hoops and now hockey.

Absolutely. The Big East also dissolved after BC, Virginia Tech and Miami went to the ACC.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

According to the Notre Dame AD, everyone had two years warning that Penn State was in the process of receiving a major hockey gift. Penn State did their due diligence, checked out arenas & asked for financial statements from many hockey schools. DU, Notre Dame, Minnesota and I'm sure many others were contacted.

Big Ten schools had to know that the gift was contingent on forming a new conference.

Q & A with Notre Dame AD Jack Swarrick-June 2011

http://articles.southbendtribune.com/2011-06-10/sports/29645796_1_boosters-bcs-eric-hansen/2

Q: On the hockey front, the Big Ten has formed a hockey conference. In 2013-2014, they will put forth a 20-game schedule. Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State will be leaving the CCHA for the Big Ten hockey conference, which leaves the CCHA in limbo. As you look at options for Notre Dame, what are the most important factors you look at?

A: It’s a great question. We’ve known this was coming. In fact, when Penn State was trying to decide whether to start its program, it came and visited us. So we’ve probably had two years of notice, and we’ve talked and thought a lot about it.

There are several important factors here. One is that we have to care about the broader industry. A solution that causes us to net out future hockey programs in the United States would not be a good solution. And so all of us – the Big Ten, and those of us who are thinking about this issue outside the Big Ten – we have to be mindful of the impact on all of the hockey programs.

Having said that, we are focused on several things. One is we want to maximize the exposure of our team from a broadcast perspective. We have a great new building, a great product, and we want to try and be on television more. We think it’s a pretty compelling hockey team that people will want to see. So we’re mindful of those issues.

Secondly, we want a good cultural fit. Athletic conferences work best when you’re with schools that are like you, that share your values. And so we talk a lot about that. And the there are a lot of sort of mechanical issues, like travel and scheduling, that you also have to factor into this.

 

[burd]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

How long has a Big 10 hockey conference been talked about on this message board alone? Since the beginning? I think it even made it into the newbies guide. Most people here (i.e., general fans and those without any real connection to the teams and leagues involved) thought it would never happen.

It's true most of us were doubters, but those of us living in Wisconsin who witnessed Barry Alvarez' stature and influence grow as a result of his programs' successes surely had more reason to think it would happen.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Bruce McLeod was the commissioner/leader of the conference. As the leader of the conference, it is fair to expect contingency plans for different, foreseeable circumstances.

Bruce is the mouthpiece for the league and acts on the direction of the membership. Applying the model of professional league commissioner's to College Hockey conference commissioners is a huge error.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Absolutely. The Big East also dissolved after BC, Virginia Tech and Miami went to the ACC.

EXACTLY what I was about to say.

The truth is that regardless of Bruce's abilities, which I am no fan of btw, the WCHA did know about the big ten move and was making changes to cope with it. DU and whoever else just were not happy for whatever reason, and it really doesn't matter what the reason was.

However to say that it will result in better recruiting, or a better league, that's just BS. It won't and the people who have joined should have known that. I agree with shirtless, it does seem it was not well thought out. Having said that, what's done is done and we all will have to live with the consequences. To quote Omar Kyhyyam from 1100 AD, maybe you've heard of him.

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.

 

[willythekid]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

EXACTLY what I was about to say.

The truth is that regardless of Bruce's abilities, which I am no fan of btw, the WCHA did know about the big ten move and was making changes to cope with it. DU and whoever else just were not happy for whatever reason, and it really doesn't matter what the reason was.

However to say that it will result in better recruiting, or a better league, that's just BS. It won't and the people who have joined should have known that. I agree with shirtless, it does seem it was not well thought out. Having said that, what's done is done and we all will have to live with the consequences. To quote Omar Kyhyyam from 1100 AD, maybe you've heard of him.

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.

to quote Dr. Suess from the 20th century, maybe you've heard of him.

"If things start happening, don't worry, don't stew, just go right along and you'll start happening too."

I think he means to quit acting like a st cloud fan...

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Joe Lull@LullonSports tweets on Sept. 8: "Just got tipped of by a source in Big Ten offices. Texas AND Notre Dame are involved in discussions to join the conference by 2014. No joke"; and then he confirms the earlier report: "What the Rivals.com Northwestern site has reported is similar to what I reported. And apparently both of us have sources inside the Big Ten."

 

[First Time Long Time]

to quote Dr. Suess from the 20th century, maybe you've heard of him.

"If things start happening, don't worry, don't stew, just go right along and you'll start happening too."

I think he means to quit acting like a st cloud fan...

Dr. Suess?
How cute!
Maybe in 20 years you'll be reading books for adults.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Pete Thamel, the national college sports reporter for the New York Times twittered yesterday: "There's a Texas-ND-Big Ten email/blog/conspiracy theory floating around. Its not true. Not even close." Take it for what it's worth. I have a hard time believing that the BTN can weave the LHN under their cover, or that UT will agree to revenue sharing in the B1G, or that ESPN will allow the LHN to be reworked by Fox, or even that Boone Pickens will allow the Big 12 to dissolve without a massive dog fight.

Of course it was only a rumor, but that was the point. However even if it might not happen everything you note could be easily overcome.

[edit]

Interesting, I just read this:

Joe Lull@LullonSports tweets on Sept. 8: "Just got tipped of by a source in Big Ten offices. Texas AND Notre Dame are involved in discussions to join the conference by 2014. No joke"; and then he confirms the earlier report: "What the Rivals.com Northwestern site has reported is similar to what I reported. And apparently both of us have sources inside the Big Ten."

 

[Bale]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You can't replace Minnesota and Wisconsin. Its that simple, so you move forward with a new tighter league and hope for the best.

You take just one major school out of any of the BCS conferences and the glue that holds the leagues together unravels. Its true in NCAA football, hoops and now hockey.

And again, that's fine. You can't replace them. You're taking out arguably 2 of the top 5 programs in the country. You're right, you can't replace them.

You're deflecting the whole point, though. There was a plan of action. If your argument is that you move forward with a new league because the WCHA wasn't the right fit for certain schools any longer, that's fine. The problem is that your arguments aren't working in conjunction with each other. You can't say that the league chose to invite 2 additional schools (of which 1 is already in a new conference and the other is being courted and has been all along) and then also say there was no leadership and contingency plan. The "rogue" schools did the EXACT same thing the WCHA did except that they un-invited 5 other schools.

Again, these schools can do whatever they want. I have no problem with that. They have the right to chase the money just like the Big Ten schools did. If this is what's best for them is debatable if it hurts the health of a niche sport as a whole. My problem is when fans, administrators and coaches just don't admit it. If you want to act like the big man on campus, you need to take the responsibility (good and bad) of being the big man on campus. Stop the scapegoating. If there is more to the McLeod situation, fine. Give us the proof. But, please, stop with the "lack of a contingency plan" argument when the NCHC is exactly what the WCHA wanted to do in the first place. It just makes everyone look like a bunch of idiots that can't handle a bit of valid criticism.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

And again, that's fine. You can't replace them. You're taking out arguably 2 of the top 5 programs in the country. You're right, you can't replace them.

You're deflecting the whole point, though. There was a plan of action. If your argument is that you move forward with a new league because the WCHA wasn't the right fit for certain schools any longer, that's fine. The problem is that your arguments aren't working in conjunction with each other. You can't say that the league chose to invite 2 additional schools (of which 1 is already in a new conference and the other is being courted and has been all along) and then also say there was no leadership and contingency plan. The "rogue" schools did the EXACT same thing the WCHA did except that they un-invited 5 other schools.

Again, these schools can do whatever they want. I have no problem with that. They have the right to chase the money just like the Big Ten schools did. If this is what's best for them is debatable if it hurts the health of a niche sport as a whole. My problem is when fans, administrators and coaches just don't admit it. If you want to act like the big man on campus, you need to take the responsibility (good and bad) of being the big man on campus. Stop the scapegoating. If there is more to the McLeod situation, fine. Give us the proof. But, please, stop with the "lack of a contingency plan" argument when the NCHC is exactly what the WCHA wanted to do in the first place. It just makes everyone look like a bunch of idiots that can't handle a bit of valid criticism.

nice post. Their so called plan hasn't worked out well for them either. them having to invite UMD at the last minute and now Notre Dame might not join jsut goes to show they didn't have much of a plan either. If they don't want to be in a conference with us just man up and say that instead of making excuses. The fact that D3 CC and D2 UMd are in there confernece goes to show the "like" schools point means nothing as well.