The new Super League is going down the tubes.

[First Time Long Time]

Yeah what with SUCS amazing arena, rich winning tradition, and multiple NCs how could the NCHC possibly lure such a perennial powerhouse into their new league?! Please, the invitation to SUCS makes the NCHC look like the United Way.

I'm so glad a winning hockey team makes you Sioux fans feel so superior.

 

[Pump It Up]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT MONEY AND THAT IS WHY IT WILL BE A SUCCESS�
Funny - All this because everyone thinks the Dakota Daisies and DU Pie in Ears architected all of this for money? When in reality,,,, it was the Colorado Springs Business Community that actually thought this up and suckered "D Pew" and the Nazi "Flick Her Tails" into thinking it was in their best interest too (which I believe it might be).
It started when the BTHC forced the little guys hands that created NCAA hockey in the first place (aka CC and the Broadmoor Hotel along with its Business partners that believed in Sport on an International Basis in part due to money but MORE THE FACT that they could simply host such wonderful event). Call me old fashioned, out of touch, whatever,,, I don't care.. Colorado Springs Business (which is certainly also good for the entire state of CO (blow me DU, Colo Springs gave you another Boone - I mean Bone like when they gave Denver the state capital over a century ago) architected the NCHC as reaction to the BTHC pulling the plug which would stagnate the WCHA (2 of 3 fan anchors leaving). So does anyone really think the NCHC was a Knee jerk reaction??? Gimme a break - I think we have all known that the BTHC was coming for some time now. WCHA needed more change than just MN and WI leaving, it needs to stand on its own. The Colorado Springs Business community pulled off the Coup De Graz to start a "MINOR money generator" (NCHC with all its members - albeit fairly small $ and I wish at least 1 Alaska school was in) while still keeping the passion and true love for the sport of hockey (read their mission statement "best fit with commitment to hockey" not to mention decent schools too and that is why I think ND will join and possibly why UAA was not invited, yet). Who cares if they do or don't play in the X or WCHA anymore? That was going to dwindle (not die) when the BTHC formed. The remaining WCHA will do just fine in their Hockey hungry markets (albeit smaller than when UND, MN and WI were constant conference factors). Now however, the NCHC schools will have their own NCHC tourney, although not as big a draw as F5 (yet or most likely never). Did I mention that I have been a regular at the F5 since inception and thought it was the Best College Sports Event Ever (especially at the X)!!! I digress sorry.
So the NCHC tourney will either be a locally rotated event (the Link at UNO, Ralph in ND, Pepsi Center, Amsoil arena, etc) or a centrally event driven by Geography (UNO comes to mind) and by a bit of the money factor. Take note - Colorado/NODAK sick of St Paul gaining 100% of the hotel/business revenue outside of ticket sales. Coup De Graz is that Colorado Springs Business Community sought a way back into "leading" what it started in the Broadmoor Barn in 1948 (Passion for Hockey and only a little bit about money). We certainly hope the little schools in the NCHC with true Hockey tradition can add a big name in he Notre Damsels but if not they will survive without them and hopefully even grow Hockey in general (would love to see CSU or other large scale school with solid fan base join up in the next 5-10 years).
Bite me everyone!!!!
Your Old Fashioned Hockey Loving Mate - THAT HATES THE BTHC

 

[burd]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I will miss the WCHA. A lot. Although the Badger and Gopher weekends were the highlights of the schedule, all the teams contributed to the overall conference strength. Western bias aside, it was (is) the best hockey conference in the country, top to bottom.

The Sioux almost always got spanked by Mankato, UAA, Tech or St Cloud at some point in the season. But that said, just because we're breaking up doesn't mean we should not take every precious opportunity to give each other ***** for the next two years and maybe even jump into the back seat together once or twice before we go our separate ways.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I will miss the WCHA. A lot. Although the Badger and Gopher weekends were the highlights of the schedule, all the teams contributed to the overall conference strength. Western bias aside, it was (is) the best hockey conference in the country, top to bottom.

The Sioux almost always got spanked by Mankato, UAA, Tech or St Cloud at some point in the season. But that said, just because we're breaking up doesn't mean we should not take every precious opportunity to give each other ***** for the next two years and maybe even jump into the back seat together once or twice before we go our separate ways.

sigh. we were there the time Tech swept (yes! swept UND at UND). remember the time John Scott circled the Kohl Center giving the fans the finger? or the big fight (which one?) at the Mariucci? ah. good times, all. I will miss you guys too.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I had no idea there was so much bitterness at SCSU. Maybe it's just a few posters giving the school a bad name, but I haven't gotten that sense from many other remaining WCHA teams.

I've been going to CC games for 25+ years now... we were the worst team, by far, in the WCHA for a very long time. Followed closely by (or just following) DU. But look, here's the deal. I don't care about performance in the last x-years. College hockey is a niche game, there's not a lot of money in it, and I don't see that changing. So in the end, I think tradition matters more than most anything else. And for tradition, I trust my gut. And here's what my gut tells me -

I have a lot of fond hockey memories. And most of those are tied to specific opponents.

High on the list are the traveling Wisconsin fans - with their drums and sieve cheers (long before such a thing existed in Colorado) who took a little kid CC fan under their wings. Even gave me a new pin each year. And the Minnesota games (my dad was an alum). But guess what - they're gone. The Big 10 is what it is.

I don't want to judge whether the remaining WCHA teams "had" to do something - clearly somebody felt they did. And if we had to form a new conference, I would use my gut, at least in part, to decide who should follow.

DU, North Dakota, those are no brainers. I have many fond memories of night-after-night triple OT games against Minnesota-Duluth in the WCHA playoffs at the Broadmoor. So keep them. Most of the other teams, there is no such tradition...

St. Cloud? An "eh" addition to the WCHA after we lost our annual games against Hockey East? Thanks, but I would rather have kept Northern Michigan after 1991 than added SCSU. Great logo, but no gut tradition there. Bemidji? Mankato? Nobody cares. Good teams, great to see what they're doing with those programs, but... eh... The worst part about not taking any of those schools is not having a presence in Minnesota outside Duluth. But that's not enough. And you've got to figure, with Duluth in the NCHC, they figure that'll cement them as the #2 program in the state, and keep the recruiting grounds alive. Gut says, the rest are, well, the rest.

If I had to choose a team to keep, I would choose Alaska or Tech. Yes, Tech. Good tradition, but fallen on hard times. And Alaska, I imagine, is just too far. It was always sort of a charity move to add them (don't get me wrong - I want both Alaska schools in college hockey, always did, but the days of doing things 'for the good of college hockey' are gone). So I can see why the new conference would pass on them. And they get to play with Fairbanks now anyways, so I am sure nobody in Alaska is complaining much.

Now, given the choice between Tech and UNO (UNO, as in "one," as in one good year), I'd personally choose Tech. My gut tells me Tech. But that's a pragmatic move... Omaha trumps Houghton, I get that. And the Dean Blais factor. Besides, if I was Tech, I'd rather play in an expanded WCHA with the smaller Minnesota schools and Northern Michigan and Lake Superior State (a team I wish CC would schedule once), so I doubt there are many hard feelings there. Still would like a recruiting foothold in Michigan, though... so...

Last thing - if you're going to form a new conference, it makes sense to draw from another - in this case, the CCHA. Who's left? Big Ten took the cream of the crop. There's no history with the rest, but Miami isn't a terrible choice. And helps, possibly, pull Notre Dame and Western Michigan in - the best of the rest. Granted, a lot of that is based on recent performance. And good locational diversity. But what's the alternative? There hasn't been any tradition with the CCHA schools for decades. It furthers the sense that the NCHC is taking what it wants, rather than just taking what's left of the WCHA. An important psychological distinction, I'd say.

So yeah... enough with the bitterness, especially from St. Cloud. Sorry, you've had 20 years to cultivate a sense of belonging, love, hatred, rivalry, whatever other intangibles there are in sports, with your WCHA brethren. I can't speak for the other schools, but I don't see that much of that has developed. You're still an "eh" weekend on the schedule each year. We win some, we lose some, but there's no passion. SCSU would be my 9th choice, and as of today, there's still a chance of a different 8 joining.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

So I decided to look at the past few years' end of season polls, to check my gut. I color-coded, let's see if I can post this.

Okay, so the Big 10 teams, HE teams, and the NCHC-announced teams are, let's say, out of play. I also want to ignore Notre Dame for now (anybody who can take them, will, I think we can all agree on that).

So I highlighted in yellow the teams that would, in theory, be "in play." I still think most would jump away from the WCHA given the opportunity.

Looking at this, I can see why the St. Cloud folks are annoyed. They are clearly the most-oft-appearing team that's up for grabs. Better than Western Michigan. Air Force... hadn't thought of that. Hmm.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

First, poles are irrelevant.

Second, those aren't the end of season polls. Only this season's poll is from the end of season, the rest are from before the NCAA tournament. So, you're comparing apples to oranges. Some unsolicited advice - If you want to use polls, use them from after the season; if you want to do before the NCAA tournament then use PWR.

Third, Air Force and Army are joined at the hip. USAF might be a fine fit for the new WCHA, but West Point is not. I doubt either service academy fits the profile that the LTHC wants.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Ah yes, true. I wondered why ND ended up on top of 2007, but I just copied-pasted. Are the end of season USCHO polls available on the site anywhere? They must not be in the pull-downs by date.

But polls are not meaningless (neither are poles). Not in hockey at least.

 

[4four4]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Two years to do what?

We are going to miss your posts in two years.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I doubt either service academy fits the profile that the LTHC wants.

But together they sure would; the profile they laid out. If the BHHC is about anything they've said then they'd extend invitations to both AF and Army and maybe even give them some incentive as a pair. It would be a good move for both Army and AF as well. Come on "N" ... live up to your name or just be branded LIARS.

And yes yes to all .. I recognize that the public reasons for this conference formation are BS.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

We are going to miss your posts in two years.

Brilliant.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Easily remedied. To satisfy perfectionists, nitpickers, fanboys, and anybody else who misses the forest for the trees. Using USA Today polls now, all that's available for past years it seems. Focusing on the yellow, this still makes SCSU look better than I'd have expected.

If you guys are going to use "funny" acronyms for whatever you're calling whichever new conference, you really should spell them out.

Seriously, though, is there no rational thinking on this forum anymore? This thread makes the worst BCS whining look relatively tame. Some of it, at least.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

We are going to miss your posts in two years.

No, you'll see even more of them. I am going to start rooting for the Gophers, like all of the alumni of SCSU, UMD and MSU that live in the Twin Cities.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Harley was wrong about the formation of the NCHC, claiming "no schools would break away from the WCHA."

Now he's doubling down and saying Notre Dame will go Independent.

Notre Dame is going to join the NCHC at some point and that's why its ridiculous to claim that the League is a failure two years before the first game or beofre the league membership is even set.

Why is Notre Dame dragging their feet? The $100 Million "golden goose" is under attack from the BCS Agamemnon.

The funny part about all the conjecture on this thread is that the NCHC was the brainchild of several college hockey coaches. They wanted to play the best possible teams [each other] every weekend and jettison the dead weight. The tricky part was convincing the athletic directors and school presidents.

What does the Leader of the Greeks at the Battle of Troy have to do with this?? And why should such a proud King stoop to being a stooge for the BCS??

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Notre Dame wants seven teams and the NCHC is OK with that. The hold-up is that Notre Dame is trying to figure out all the television ramifications.

Link please?

Most likely the BCS turmoil has thrown hockey on Notre Dame's backburner. Latest crazy BCS rumor is Texas going to the ACC.

I'm eager to learn how rumors of Texas moving to either the Pac-12 or ACC correlates with Notre Dame making a decision about hockey. Please help.

IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT MONEY AND THAT IS WHY IT WILL BE A SUCCESS�
Funny - All this because everyone thinks the Dakota Daisies and DU Pie in Ears architected all of this for money? When in reality,,,, it was the Colorado Springs Business Community that actually thought this up and suckered "D Pew" and the Nazi "Flick Her Tails" into thinking it was in their best interest too (which I believe it might be). So does anyone really think the NCHC was a Knee jerk reaction??? Gimme a break - I think we have all known that the BTHC was coming for some time now. WCHA needed more change than just MN and WI leaving, it needs to stand on its own...

I'd suggest you supply some actual proof that the CS business community was the prime mover in forming the conference, minus your conglomeration of rambling rubbish.

The reason for the move would be for UND to align itself with schools that have similar philosophies about their hockey programs and are willing to invest in them and create new media opportunities.

Does that sound like a "keeping up with the BTN" money grab to you? Interesting how the CS business community is strangely absent from not only this GF Herald article, but EVERY news article on the NCHC to date. Unless you'd like to make a case for the CS business community posing as the not for profit El Pomar foundation where the NCHC headquarters will be located.

It's actually comical looking back on the initial and ONLY reasons ever provided to the press for the formation the NCHC:

LIKEMINDEDNESS

You will probably hear athletic directors use the “like-minded schools” line at Wednesday’s press conference in discussing why this new league is happening. While administrators may not expand on that line, a source told the Herald that when business was conducted in the WCHA, there were often times two blocks of voting.

The schools with larger budgets typically wanted to spend money, invest and try new things. Schools with smaller budgets often resisted. With Minnesota and Wisconsin departing for the Big Ten Hockey Conference, the smaller-budget schools take over control of the voting block. This caused athletic directors with larger budgets to worry about the future of the conference.

Let's do the math: 12 WCHA teams - 2 (MN and Wis) = 10 remaining. 10 teams - 5 teams with assumed larger budgets and creative aspirations (UND, DU, UMD, CC, UNO) = 5 schools with smaller budgets controlling the voting block? What's wrong with this picture? And let's say for example you add Miami to the WCHA, who controls the voting block then? This is pure UND BS spin.

LEADERSHIP

It is clear that UND wasn’t enamored with the leadership in the WCHA. In fact, athletic director Brian Faison said as much in an interview with the Herald a week ago. "It’s no secret that I’ve had concerns with the administrative side of the WCHA," Faison said.

More UND BS spin... So fans were initially being asked to believe that Bruce McLeod was a bumbling idiot with dysfunctional management skills and a pea brain vision for the WCHA? And these were irreconcilable "concerns" without any forum for negotiation? So all 5 schools found McLeod stubbornly unapproachable? I find that seriously hard to believe.

Nice cover Faison, cryptically demonize the man as the scapegoat and an administrative bonehead, when in reality it's all about a media package asap and doing it YOUR way. I find it interesting how NO ONE has since complained about McLeod's leadership to date, while he continues to do a fine job of picking up the pieces and rebuilding the WCHA.

RECRUITING

UND often clashes with Minnesota and Wisconsin on the recruiting grounds. UND and others likely wondered whether the formation of the Big Ten Hockey Conference would be more appealing to recruits than playing in what remained in the WCHA. With a conference of traditionally strong teams, new buildings, new media opportunities and strong fan bases, the new league should be an attractive place to play for top recruits.

Admittedly, the NCHC may lure a recruit from other WCHA schools based upon the composite quality of the league teams, but whether the recruiting variances as compared to staying in the WCHA would have been significant is basically unknown. I've highlighted the only thing the five teams that left don't already have which is essentially the bottom line for forming the conference and seeking a recruiting advantage over the B1G: a media package and $$$$$$$$$$

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I'm eager to learn how rumors of Texas moving to either the Pac-12 or ACC correlates with Notre Dame making a decision about hockey. Please help.

If BCS conferences are about to go ape **** again, you could argue that ND is banking on Texas going independent, making it much harder for the new system that emerges to leave independents out of their playoff system.

Conferences might decide to tell ND to go f themselves, but it's unlikley that they will leave the two of the largest fan bases in the country out of the equation. If Texas choses to join up with one of the new "super" conferences, and not go independent, ND may legitamtley have to take a hard look at joining the Big 1(6) or risk ending up on the outside of the system.

Seems pretty obvious how this has an impact on their hockey decision, and why they may not see the point of declaring for the NCHC when that could change before the end of the year.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

LIKEMINDEDNESS

Let's do the math: 12 WCHA teams - 2 (MN and Wis) = 10 remaining. 10 teams - 5 teams with assumed larger budgets and creative aspirations (UND, DU, UMD, CC, UNO) = 5 schools with smaller budgets controlling the voting block? What's wrong with this picture? And let's say for example you add Miami to the WCHA, who controls the voting block then? This is pure UND BS spin.

I forgot that Miami had accepted membership to the WCHA before the National had been formed. Oh wait...they hadn't. Your point here is purely speculative. We'll most likely never know if Miami would have joined the WCHA had it not split up.

LEADERSHIP

More UND BS spin... So fans were initially being asked to believe that Bruce McLeod was a bumbling idiot with dysfunctional management skills and a pea brain vision for the WCHA? And these were irreconcilable "concerns" without any forum for negotiation? So all 5 schools found McLeod stubbornly unapproachable? I find that seriously hard to believe.

Nice cover Faison, cryptically demonize the man as the scapegoat and an administrative bonehead, when in reality it's all about a media package asap and doing it YOUR way. I find it interesting how NO ONE has since complained about McLeod's leadership to date, while he continues to do a fine job of picking up the pieces and rebuilding the WCHA.

McLeod was a buffoon, and largely inept at leadership. When North Dakota traveled to Alaska during the whole volcano scare a few years ago, McLeod and the WCHA did not have a contingency plan in place. Nothing. I'm sure others can elaborate more on other issues as well.

RECRUITING

Admittedly, the NCHC may lure a recruit from other WCHA schools based upon the composite quality of the league teams, but whether the recruiting variances as compared to staying in the WCHA would have been significant is basically unknown. I've highlighted the only thing the five teams that left don't already have which is essentially the bottom line for forming the conference and seeking a recruiting advantage over the B1G: a media package and $$$$$$$$$$

I tend to agree here, but for slightly different reasons. I argued this same point when the B1G was formed. For the most part, North Dakota, Denver, CC and UMD are going to get roughly the same recruits regardless of which conference they are in. The same applies to Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan and Michigan State. These schools are all big dogs in the college hockey landscape, and will get recruits. Conference affiliation will not dramatically change the recruiting situation (other than, like you mentioned, the random, one-off type situation recruit) for these schools. The schools that should theoretically see a nice bump are Ohio State, UNO, Penn State and Miami. One could argue that had the WCHA stayed together that UNO would have been fine either way, but Miami needed to do something with the CCHA dissolving and Notre Dame actively pursuing other options.

At the end of the day, it was a huge, and arguably unnecessary risk taken by the schools in the National. While I was disappointed in its formation, and worry about the ramifications that it may lead to, at this point there is nothing to do but hope that it is a great success for all of college hockey and leads to growth in the sport.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Link please?

I could be wrong, but I don't think there is a url for dg's fevered imagination yet.

 

[SCSU Euro]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Second, those aren't the end of season polls. Only this season's poll is from the end of season, the rest are from before the NCAA tournament. So, you're comparing apples to oranges.

How do you figure? Its not like any teams that were highlighted made some deep NCAA runs.

2011- WMU - 0 NCAA wins
2010- SCSU - 1 NCAA win, BSU, NMU, Alaska - 0 NCAA wins, FSU - DNQ
2008- SCSU - 0 NCAA wins, MSU-M - DNQ
2007- SCSU - 0 NCAA wins, MTU - DNQ
2006- SCSU, NMU - DNQ

Wouldn't change much if you did it after the season ended.

No, you'll see even more of them. I am going to start rooting for the Gophers, like all of the alumni of SCSU, UMD and MSU that live in the Twin Cities.

Ewww

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

McLeod was a buffoon, and largely inept at leadership. When North Dakota traveled to Alaska during the whole volcano scare a few years ago, McLeod and the WCHA did not have a contingency plan in place. Nothing. I'm sure others can elaborate more on other issues as well.

McLeod may be a buffoon, I won't argue that, but this is the dumbest argument to prove it that I have heard. Who needs a ****ing contingency plan for "drive to Fairbanks and fly from there"?