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The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

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Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-6-weirdest-things-weve-learned-since-911/

Keep in mind this is written on a humor website, and should only be taken so seriously, but consider point #6 in this article and think for a moment:

In a weird way, didn't the terrorists win? How ridiculous has life gotten in the last 12 years, and consider how relatively easy it was to completely alter the way we live and how easy it is to get us to argue and ***** with each other.

Sure, it cost them their lives and put us all on a VERY EXPENSIVE manhunt that eventually killed them all (several times over... we've killed their second-in-command at least two dozen times by now)... but if their intent was to make us all **** on our lives, they've kind of succeeded.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-6-weirdest-things-weve-learned-since-911/

Keep in mind this is written on a humor website, and should only be taken so seriously, but consider point #6 in this article and think for a moment:

In a weird way, didn't the terrorists win? How ridiculous has life gotten in the last 12 years, and consider how relatively easy it was to completely alter the way we live and how easy it is to get us to argue and ***** with each other.

Sure, it cost them their lives and put us all on a VERY EXPENSIVE manhunt that eventually killed them all (several times over... we've killed their second-in-command at least two dozen times by now)... but if their intent was to make us all **** on our lives, they've kind of succeeded.
Click to expand...

Right on the nose. The purpose of terrorism is to magnify the danger in the minds of potential victims. Because of the threat, every American is now treated (rudely) as a potential terrorist every time they fly. Individually, we face far greater dangers and threats to our lives every time we wake up and head out the door.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-6-weirdest-things-weve-learned-since-911/

Keep in mind this is written on a humor website, and should only be taken so seriously, but consider point #6 in this article and think for a moment:

In a weird way, didn't the terrorists win? How ridiculous has life gotten in the last 12 years, and consider how relatively easy it was to completely alter the way we live and how easy it is to get us to argue and ***** with each other.

Sure, it cost them their lives and put us all on a VERY EXPENSIVE manhunt that eventually killed them all (several times over... we've killed their second-in-command at least two dozen times by now)... but if their intent was to make us all **** on our lives, they've kind of succeeded.
Click to expand...

I rarely disagree with you, but I sincerely doubt (100% perhaps even) their mere intent is to make us wait a few minutes longer in line at the airport nor spend more in defense of this country. I will never be one of those yahoos that equates Islam with hate (lived there, befriended people there, loved my time there actually and will argue the vast, vast, vast majority of Muslims do not wish us harm), but the yuks that really want to do us harm have far more sinister and widespread intentions than causing us slight discomfort. They have expressly dedicated themselves to wiping Israel from the planet first and second destroying the way of life of Western citizenry.

They have won nothing in any grand scheme of things. Have we gone overboard to any degree? On a micro level probably, but on a larger scale this is not a minor threat. Were it not for their incompetence coupled with our resolve 9/11 would have already happened 2,3 times over somewhere else.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Old Pio said:
Guy Burgess, Donald McLean, Kim Philby, Anthony Blunt and John Cairncross. Those guys did far more than go to "a couple of meetings" in college.
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The Cambridge Five, most likely (unless someone verified Cairncross when I wasn't paying attention). Irony is there is a sixth Brit who may have been the most damaging of all, though he didn't attend Cambridge. His antics officially remain unproven but enough has been written about it that if it's not true I'll shoot myself in the face. I'm that sure of it. Chapman Pincher has a few superb books on the topic.

A rough primer that critiques both sides: http://www.quadrant.org.au/magazine...r-andrew-and-the-strange-case-of-roger-hollis
 
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Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

XYZ said:
The Cambridge Five, most likely (unless someone verified Cairncross when I wasn't paying attention). Irony is there is a sixth Brit who may have been the most damaging of all, though he didn't attend Cambridge. His antics officially remain unproven but enough has been written about it that if it's not true I'll shoot myself in the face. I'm that sure of it. Chapman Pincher has a few superb books on the topic.

A rough primer that critiques both sides: http://www.quadrant.org.au/magazine...r-andrew-and-the-strange-case-of-roger-hollis
Click to expand...

Anti-anti-communists had a point, no question. But there was a threat. A guy who sat behind FDR at Yalta passed secrets to a Soviet courier for heavens sake. And leave us not forget Julius and Ethel. Were there excesses during the McCarthy era? Certainly. In retrospect, some of it was not only hysterical, but plain dumb. But the "Hollywood Ten," much beloved even to this day, were all communists. And they were under party discipline during the HCUA hearings. John Reed (lionized in Reds) was on the Comintern payroll to the tune of around a million bucks. A king's ransom in those days. Armand Hammer, CEO of Occidental Petroleum, was the communist paymaster in America. The CPUSA was way more than "democracy in a hurry."
Way more.
 
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Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Slap Shot said:
I rarely disagree with you, but I sincerely doubt (100% perhaps even) their mere intent is to make us wait a few minutes longer in line at the airport nor spend more in defense of this country. I will never be one of those yahoos that equates Islam with hate (lived there, befriended people there, loved my time there actually and will argue the vast, vast, vast majority of Muslims do not wish us harm), but the yuks that really want to do us harm have far more sinister and widespread intentions than causing us slight discomfort. They have expressly dedicated themselves to wiping Israel from the planet first and second destroying the way of life of Western citizenry.

They have won nothing in any grand scheme of things. Have we gone overboard to any degree? On a micro level probably, but on a larger scale this is not a minor threat. Were it not for their incompetence coupled with our resolve 9/11 would have already happened 2,3 times over somewhere else.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, too. One strategy would be to support secular governments in that part of the world. Governments that might be more authoritarian than we would prefer. But we would insist they be committed to modernity, separation of church and state and rights for all, including women. That kind of government would be in a position to strangle in the crib the Islamist nutcases. A government like the Pahlavis in Iran for instance. What? Never mind.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Old Pio said:
Anti-anti-communists had a point, no question. But there was a threat. A guy who sat behind FDR at Yalta passed secrets to a Soviet courier for heavens sake. And leave us not forget Julius and Ethel. Were there excesses during the McCarthy era? Certainly. In retrospect, some of it was not only hysterical, but plain dumb. But the "Hollywood Ten," much beloved even to this day, were all communists. And they were under party discipline during the HCUA hearings. John Reed (lionized in Reds was on the Comintern payroll to the tune of around a million bucks. A king's ransom in those days. Armand Hammer, CEO of Occidental Petroleum, was the communist paymaster in America. The CPUSA was way more than "democracy in a hurry."
Way more.
Click to expand...

When it comes to humint the Russians are true artists. No one else is even worthy of comparison no less as assumption of equivalence.
 
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Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

XYZ said:
When it comes to humint the Russians are true artists. No one else is even worthy of comparison no less as assumption of equivalence.
Click to expand...

True. And our openness and their secretiveness (remember their lying bullsh*t about the Kursk?) makes a tough job even tougher. There was the scene in Dr. Strangelove where the Soviet ambassador told the president his source for some presumably secret information was the NYTimes.

They also have never been troubled by norms. The massacre in the Katyn Forest comes to mind. Or the Holodomor. As does the internment of a B-29 crew and plane, to allow them to completely copy the thing. The B-29, btw, was the costliest weapon of the war. More even than the bomb.
 
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Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Old Pio said:
Right on the nose. The purpose of terrorism is to magnify the danger in the minds of potential victims. Because of the threat, every American is now treated (rudely) as a potential terrorist every time they fly. Individually, we face far greater dangers and threats to our lives every time we wake up and head out the door.
Click to expand...
I've always liked Dennis Miller's take on the subject. You really can't do anything about the truly bat**** crazy. All you can do is hope you're not around when they go off.

It's not a number capable of determination, but I've frequently wondered how many people are truly willing to strap a bomb to themselves and blow up a train, or fly a plane into a skyscraper. I think it's a lot smaller than our politicians, or the terrorist leaders, would like us to believe. And, of course, the beauty is they only get to do it once. The instinct for preservation is strong in the human race.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Old Pio said:
True. And our openness and their secretiveness (remember their lying bullsh*t about the Kursk?) makes a tough job even tougher. There was the scene in Dr. Strangelove where the Soviet ambassador told the president his source for some presumably secret information was the NYTimes.

They also have never been troubled by norms. The massacre in the Katyn Forest comes to mind. Or the Holodomor. As does the internment of a B-29 crew and plane, to allow them to completely copy the thing. The B-29, btw, was the costliest weapon of the war. More even than the bomb.
Click to expand...

My age is beginning to show-how long did it take the Russians to admit they shot down KAL007 in 1983? I know they denied it for what seemed forever and then claimed it was a spy plane. I seem to recall a US Congressman was on board and was one of those 250+ lost.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Old Pio said:
True. And our openness and their secretiveness (remember their lying bullsh*t about the Kursk?) makes a tough job even tougher. There was the scene in Dr. Strangelove where the Soviet ambassador told the president his source for some presumably secret information was the NYTimes.

They also have never been troubled by norms. The massacre in the Katyn Forest comes to mind. Or the Holodomor. As does the internment of a B-29 crew and plane, to allow them to completely copy the thing. The B-29, btw, was the costliest weapon of the war. More even than the bomb.
Click to expand...

Yes. The differences between our culture and theirs all happen to be things that help their humint proficiency while often hindering ours. Assuming, of course, we even made humint a priority, which we don't because we're painfully arrogant about a few things, but that's a whole different topic.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

DrDemento said:
My age is beginning to show-how long did it take the Russians to admit they shot down KAL007 in 1983? I know they denied it for what seemed forever and then claimed it was a spy plane. I seem to recall a US Congressman was on board and was one of those 250+ lost.
Click to expand...

Congressman Lawrence McDonald was on the flight. From Georgia, IIRC and a wheel in the John Birch Society. It was UN Ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick (boy, I miss her) who gave the Soviets nine inches of sandpaper d*ck when she released the recordings of ground control telling the pilot to fire. They knew it was a civilian plane and shot it down anyway. They were communist b*stards, that's what they did: murder innocents and then lie about it. Many of the conspiracy theories popular after the shoot down blamed America, naturally.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Old Pio said:
Congressman Lawrence McDonald was on the flight. From Georgia, IIRC and a wheel in the John Birch Society. It was UN Ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick (boy, I miss her) who gave the Soviets nine inches of sandpaper d*ck when she released the recordings of ground control telling the pilot to fire. They knew it was a civilian plane and shot it down anyway. They were communist b*stards, that's what they did: murder innocents and then lie about it. Many of the conspiracy theories popular after the shoot down blamed America, naturally.
Click to expand...
Sure. It was on a spy mission over Soviet military bases.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

joecct said:
I know. She had a set and was not afraid to call a spade a spade. Nowadays, we'd be apologizing and Putin would send the USA a bill for the missiles.
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She was a life long Democrat who never changed parties. She was disgusted by the "blame America first crowd" which still infects her party. And is on display here on a daily basis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=056Mq9e2gmk
 
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