The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

[ARM]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

You North Americans have a strange attitude to alcohol. I was asked twice for I.D. during my many visits and I am in my 50's (and look it) !

The consequences for serving alcohol to minors can be huge. Thus, some establishments take the guesswork out of the equation for their employees and have them card absolutely everybody. Everybody knows the policy, so people are less likely to be offended. So we've all been carded -- a little bit of nostalgia. If it helps save a few lives, I'm okay with it.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

If it helps save a few lives, I'm okay with it.

Even though this will take this thread way off topic...I absolutely hate that rationale. Almost every bureaucratic policy where the purpose behind it is to "think of the children" or "save a few lives" generally is not worth it.

You really think IDing people at a hockey game is going to save a few lives?

Here's a law that will save more lives than IDing everyone to stop underage drinking: require everyone to wear helmets every waking moment. Afterall, you never know when you'll slip on ice and crack your skull open, or a construction worker drops a wrench off of a high rise, or you get in a car wreck and put your head through the windshield.

Seriously. I'm not ok with 10 year olds getting drunk, but the alcohol policies in North America are draconian at times and definitely not always worth it.

 

[dave1381]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

US and Canada better be careful. They both blew out Norway. Canada all over Russia and quite possibly the Slovaks tonight. USA trouncing Finland. Jacques might be watching...

Any thoughts on how people would improve the format of the Olympic tournament???

Thinking off the top of my head here but what if the IIHF used the world rankings as of the Worlds before the Olympics to set a "winner's pool" and a "qualification pool" for the Olympics? So for this Olympics, USA, Canada, Finland and Sweden would have been the winner's pool. Have them play essentially a 4 Nations Cup to determine seeding #1-#4. Then the qualification pool teams play a round robin of their own with the top two teams qualifying for a 6-team knockout round. Top 2 seeds get a bye to start while #3 plays #6 and #4 plays #5 with the winners coming back the next day to play the top two teams in the semis. Winners play for the title.

Obviously even Sweden and Finland didn't put up the kind of fight that was expected or hoped for this time around but the idea here would be to keep the better teams playing each other as much as possible, minimize the Canada-Slovakia matchups and still have each game mean something. I get the best-of-3 argument for the gold because we assume US vs. Canada in the finals and want to see more of that but I don't like it in the sense that if a 2006-type upset happens in the semis, it reduces the chance of that cinderella team actually winning the tournament because that team would have to beat the US and/or Canada 3 out of 4 games.

First, a digression -- I really like the/ new men's Olympic tournament format. I'd never thought of it before. The old tournament you'd have a team get too little reward for a good performance in the preliminary round (see Slovakia 5-0 in 2006). In the new format, I think the incentives are strong for all 12 teams across the board in terms of setting up the bracket for the tournament.

The tournament format you suggest is pretty close to what they had in 1998 for the men's, where they had two qualification spots, and the top six teams qualify.

Here's a simple solution -- how about a standard 8-team double elimination format? Probably US/Canada would each get one horrible mismatch, one game against Finland/Sweden, then one US-Canada game, then loser plays Finland/Sweden, and then one or two more US-Canada games. I at least like that better than the current format. I suppose the biggest downside is two teams only play two games. (EDIT: you also have the 1st two losers and 2nd two losers play additional games -- that way all get 3 games, you'd have 17 or 18 games total then. Or you could just do triple elimination, which is 21-23 games (current tournament is 20 games)).

It also has the Cinderella limits that you suggested. But I see a tradeoff. Either you have a best-of-three or an effective best-of-three like you have in the double elimination tournament. Or... you in your format, the first US-Canada game doesn't mean a whole lot (though this is typical of World Championship and Four Nations format). I'd rather have every US-Canada game be meaningful if the tournament format allowed for multiple such games.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Celebrating the Canadian Way....

Once upon a time there was a famous Canadian Marathoner by the Name of Gerard Cote. He won the infamous Boston Marathon four times. He was controversial as he would light a big stogie with a beer in hand after every victory....He also won the inaugural LA marathon back in '48. He was so quick, that the gates to the Coliseum were still closed when he arrived there........
"When the first runner Gerald Cote of Canada arrived at the Coliseum, the gate was locked. After the gate was finally opened, he was forced to run around hurdles which were on the track for an upcoming race to reach the finish. Cote ran his victory lap puffing on a cigar."

.....
This pic honors this tradition great Canadian tradition .
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports...y+celebration+creates+stir/2618395/story.html

 

[ARM]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

You really think IDing people at a hockey game is going to save a few lives?

Did I say "at a hockey game"? If you'd like the laws changed, contact your representatives, because I was only speaking to how it impacts me personally in terms of the hassle factor when I'm obviously way beyond legal drinking age. Back to hockey.

 

[Trillium]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

BTW...The country I grew up in your are allowed to drink at age 16, but cannot get a drivers licence until you are 19.

So I admit it...I had a beer at a Bar at 16...and guess what....It was legal

Well I grew up in Canada and I had a drink in a bar at 16 too...though the drinking age was actually 18 at the time.


Many countries outside of North American have no (or very low) drinking ages, and actually seem to have far lower rates of alcohol abuse.

 

[Trillium]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Hold on there! Don't associate the American media's pathetic need to create scandal and negativity with Americans in general, or even poor sportsmanship. .

I don't. Most Americans are very gracious. That's why I actually said some Americans. Not all Canadians are perfect either.

 

[Trillium]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

And an unintentional pun.

Brouhaha


Good one! I hadn't noticed.

 

[Trillium]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Not to throw a damper on the discussions but, any thoughts on the officiating?...on the 2 (that I remember) weak calls and the 2 or 3 non calls?

I agree...I thought the officiating was poor though not biased. Bad calls both ways. But unfortunately that's nothing unusual in female hockey.

 

[ARM]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I agree...I thought the officiating was poor though not biased.

It was a valid point made that this was the only game in the entire tournament played at that speed so the officials had to adjust to it just like the teams did.

 

[Trillium]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

You apply a different standard 5 4 fighting, when a Brown Women's hockey player takes a sip. You're all aboard to execute her. Same goes for you Trillium. You've had a lot to say when it was Brown player.

Au contraire. When the Brown Women's Hockey team wins a championship, I'll gladly supply the beer and cheer them on for their victory celebration.

 

[Trillium]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I'm sorry but as a European I find it astounding that the celebrations were reported in that manner..

Agreed, although I would have to say that as bad as the American media tends to be, the British tabloids would probably "own the podium" for sensationalizing non-events.

 

[Badger Abroad]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Well I grew up in Canada and I had a drink in a bar at 16 too...though the drinking age was actually 18 at the time.


Many countries outside of North American have no (or very low) drinking ages, and actually seem to have far lower rates of alcohol abuse.

Well, here in Hungary the rule essentially is if you are tall enough to put your money on the bar, you are old enough to drink. Of course I wouldn't say we have a particularly low rate of alcohol abuse. Of course the standard of what is considered "abuse" may be different in a country where instead of a cup of coffee, a shot of plum brandy is the traditional wake me up drink in the morning.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

It was a valid point made that this was the only game in the entire tournament played at that speed so the officials had to adjust to it just like the teams did.

Considering the pace and the intensity of the game, I thought the refs did an admirable job. They let a lot of the physical (but clean) hard nosed play go. It could have been a constant parade to the box if this game had been called by the book. IMHO, Compared to the final in 2002, this was a well called game.

 

[Hux]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Considering the pace and the intensity of the game, I thought the refs did an admirable job. They let a lot of the physical (but clean) hard nosed play go. It could have been a constant parade to the box if this game had been called by the book. IMHO, Compared to the final in 2002, this was a well called game.

I agree. Typically IIHF events feature whistles blown anytime a stick comes above an ankle. While they should call the hooks, sometimes they get carried away with the little tugs that really aren't worthy of a trip to the box.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I really wish you ***** folks would dry up, because I am getting a hangover from YOUR WHINE

Quote of the day goes to DC.

 

[irishbridie49]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Au contraire. When the Brown Women's Hockey team wins a championship, I'll gladly supply the beer and cheer them on for their victory celebration.

We'll all be too old to drink when that happens. No caveats, though. Fairness straight across the board because - as you know - a drink is a drink.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

You apply a different standard 5 4 fighting, when a Brown Women's hockey player takes a sip. You're all aboard to execute her. Same goes for you Trillium. You've had a lot to say when it was Brown player.

I only took offence when you piled on and called out the Canadian girls as Fat, Drunk & Stupid. You know what...I`m kinda done with you. Your not a hockey person. Please don't taint this thread with any more of your venom.

This thread is about winners...you have no place here.

 

[Trillium]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

We'll all be too old to drink when that happens. No caveats, though. Fairness straight across the board because - as you know - a drink is a drink.

Since when did the Irish ever get too old to drink.
I suspect your not really Irish after all then.

I realize I am an idiot for bothering to engage with you, because I know you are deliberately unreasonable and argumentative on purpose.

A drink is not a drink no matter the circumstance. That was the original point that made the media coverage completely out of line in this case. The context must always be considered before assessing blame. To think otherwise is to be just plain thick.

A drink before a game is not the same as a drink after a once-in-a-lifetime type victory

A celebratory drink within the team is not the same as a drinking session external to the team

A drink is not the same as a drinking binge or drunken rampage.

A drink while ensconced for the evening in a safe environment is not the same as drinking before driving

You are confusing fairness with equal treatment. Not remotely the same thing whatsoever.

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

It was a valid point made that this was the only game in the entire tournament played at that speed so the officials had to adjust to it just like the teams did.

That's an interesting point that I hadn't considered, but there were at least two non calls that occured right in front of the ref with the ref's view not being obstructed.

I realize that these things can be debated endlessly but here's a thought...assuming I'm recalling the timing accurately...and if I'm not then somebody please correct me...if one or two of the weak calls against Canada aren't made then one or both of the 5 on 3's against them don't happen and then maybe whatever psychological advantage Canada gained as the result of having killed them off, and ditto for the USA in the opposite direction, doesn't occur...and then maybe the tide of the game doesn't start shifting in Canada's favour from that point onward, which it seems to have done.

If that's when those weak calls happened it could be viewed, in hindsight, as the best thing to have happened to Canada, ironically enough.