The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

[just_a_fan]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Interesting article in the Wall Street Journal about Universities with the most Olympians. Women's Ice Hockey, mentioned, of course.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704479404575087510950849420.html

 

[OnMAA]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

No, I saw the VANOC guy. Not sure that we saw it in its entirety, but he talked awhile

EDIT: NBC replayed their broadcast of the closing ceremony after the local news and so I paid more attention to the speech. NBC did a replay of Shaun White and then joined the speech somewhere along the way. I just read this summary on SI.com, which was NOT part of the NBC coverage:
"Alexandre," VANOC Chief John Furlong, said during his speech to moguls skier Alexandre Bilodeau, "your first gold medal gave us all permission to feel like and behave like champions. Our last one will be remembered for generations."

Furlong's delivery may have been stilted, but the response was not. The crowd of 60,600 rose to its feet, unscripted, and stopped his closing speech cold for a good minute, cheering the biggest win in Canadian hockey history. Such chesty flagwaving was seen across Vancouver and Canada throughout these games, but hit new levels in the aftermath of the hockey win -- horns beeping, men hugging, a once-shy country openly reveling in its success.

"That quiet, humble national pride we were sometimes reluctant to acknowledge seemed to take to the streets as the most beautiful kind of patriotism broke out all across our country," Furlong said. "So many new and dazzling applications for the Maple Leaf."

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...l_price/03/01/closing.ceremony/#ixzz0guNPkCrn

So, you were right - the NBC coverage skipped this "Canadian specific content." Bummer. I get tired of their US specific coverage.

On the local radio they discussed the difference of coverage between NBC and CBC. The actual ceremony was from 8:30-11pm EST, shown uninterrupted on CBC. NBC cut away several times, including having some other show on starting at 10pm. Cut aways inlcuding showing a piece were a guy was arguing with his wife on whether to put their dead dog as a trophy on the wall. Geezz, what a waste of broadcast space. Not sure if it was the NBC station we get on the dish or the national feed.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

The undeniable reality is here though that two competitors collectivley outscored their opponents 86-4. To put this in perspective this would be equivalent to bobsled being decided by a 49 second gap between the first two medallists and the third, instead of the hundredths of a second difference.

Let's face it, unless some form of parity can be reached in the Women's game in the next four years...this sport is in jeopardy at the games.

 

[ARM]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Let's face it, unless some form of parity can be reached in the Women's game in the next four years...

The gap will narrow slightly whether or not anything is done. I don't think four years is enough time for anything resembling parity. In '06, the US bonked so Sweden looked closer than they really were. This time, Sweden was the team that had a bad Olympics, and we get a different perspective of the separation between #2 and #3. The rest of the world can't truly compete until they get their numbers up. But increased participation won't immediately translate into a proportional increase in competitiveness. There will be some inevitable lag from one to the other.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

The gap will narrow slightly whether or not anything is done. I don't think four years is enough time for anything resembling parity. In '06, the US bonked so Sweden looked closer than they really were. This time, Sweden was the team that had a bad Olympics, and we get a different perspective of the separation between #2 and #3. The rest of the world can't truly compete until they get their numbers up. But increased participation won't immediately translate into a proportional increase in competitiveness. There will be some inevitable lag from one to the other.

Sure OK but this has been going on for some time now and your statement resembles what has been said in every Olympic aftermath. The also rans go home promising to do better the next go-around and guess what...they never do.

If it was left solely up to us hockey fans we would sweep this under the rug and say what you have just said. The fact is it isn't up to the hockey fan to say what's acceptable and what isn't. The purists decry these types of events make a mockery of the Olympic movement and the spirit of the games.

They make the decisions not us and unless vast improvements are made we, as fans may be wishing the inevitable lag hadn't taken so long...just sayin.

 

[UCONN FAN]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

1960 squaw Valley Men's preliminary round results:

Group A Group B Group C
February 19 February 19 February 19
Canada 5-2 Sweden USSR 8-0 Germany USA 7-5 Czechoslovakia
February 20 February 20 February 20
Canada 19-1 Japan USSR 8-4 Finland Czechoslovakia 18-1Australia
February 21 February 21 February 21
Sweden 19-0 Japan Germany (UTG) 4-1 Finland USA 12-1 Australia
Not exactly parity I would say.

Year Gold Silver Bronze
1920 Canada United States Czechoslovakia
1924 Canada United States Great Britain
1928 Canada Sweden Switzerland
1932 Canada United States Germany
1936 Great Britain Canada United States
1948 Canada Czechoslovakia Switzerland
1952 Canada United States Sweden
1956 Soviet Union United States Canada
1960 United States Canada Soviet Union
1964 Soviet Union Sweden Czechoslovakia
1968 Soviet Union Czechoslovakia Canada
1972 Soviet Union United States Czechoslovakia
1976 Soviet Union Czechoslovakia West Germany
1980 United States Soviet Union Sweden
1984 Soviet Union Czechoslovakia Sweden
1988 Soviet Union Finland Sweden
1992 CIS Canada Czechoslovakia
1994 Sweden Canada Finland
1998 Czech Republic Russia Finland
2002 Canada United States Russia
2006 Sweden Finland Czech Republic
2010 Canada United States Finland

Prior to Squaw valley Canada had won 6 of 8 gold medals. It took the US 40 years to win. Basicly 4 countries have dominated the men's game.
I know the world is not as patient with women's sports, but I think the women's game will be fine

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

1960 squaw Valley Men's preliminary round results:

Group A Group B Group C
February 19 February 19 February 19
Canada 5-2 Sweden USSR 8-0 Germany USA 7-5 Czechoslovakia
February 20 February 20 February 20
Canada 19-1 Japan USSR 8-4 Finland Czechoslovakia 18-1Australia
February 21 February 21 February 21
Sweden 19-0 Japan Germany (UTG) 4-1 Finland USA 12-1 Australia
Not exactly parity I would say.

Year Gold Silver Bronze
1920 Canada United States Czechoslovakia
1924 Canada United States Great Britain
1928 Canada Sweden Switzerland
1932 Canada United States Germany
1936 Great Britain Canada United States
1948 Canada Czechoslovakia Switzerland
1952 Canada United States Sweden
1956 Soviet Union United States Canada
1960 United States Canada Soviet Union
1964 Soviet Union Sweden Czechoslovakia
1968 Soviet Union Czechoslovakia Canada
1972 Soviet Union United States Czechoslovakia
1976 Soviet Union Czechoslovakia West Germany
1980 United States Soviet Union Sweden
1984 Soviet Union Czechoslovakia Sweden
1988 Soviet Union Finland Sweden
1992 CIS Canada Czechoslovakia
1994 Sweden Canada Finland
1998 Czech Republic Russia Finland
2002 Canada United States Russia
2006 Sweden Finland Czech Republic
2010 Canada United States Finland

Basicly 4 countries have dominated the men's game.
I know the world is not as patient with women's sports, but I think the women's game will be fine

I for one, sure hope your right.

My experience is there are three kinds of people in the world. People that make things happen, people that watch things happen and people that say...what happened!

The loss of this Olympic venue in coming years would put many of us in the latter...

 

[UCONN FAN]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I for one, sure hope your right.

My experience is there are three kinds of people in the world. People that make things happen, people that watch things happen and people that say...what happened!

The loss of this Olympic venue in coming years would put many of us in the latter...

AGREED!

 

[bbtt]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I for one, sure hope your right.

My experience is there are three kinds of people in the world. People that make things happen, people that watch things happen and people that say...what happened!

The loss of this Olympic venue in coming years would put many of us in the latter...

So what are YOU doing about it? Just asking...

By continuously fueling this fire, I would say you are not helping.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

So what are YOU doing about it? Just asking...

By continuously fueling this fire, I would say you are not helping.

I think you might be surprised at what I'm doing to help the situation and would suggest I'm probably certainly doing more than you.

If you think this kind of discussion "fuels the fire"...YOU will be one of the ones saying....What Happened?

 

[brookyone]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I think you might be surprised at what I'm doing to help the situation and would suggest I'm probably certainly doing more than you.

If you think this kind of discussion "fuels the fire"...YOU will be one of the ones saying....What Happened?

We might be surprised if you actually posted what you were doing to help the situation...that is "probably certainly" more than others...or bbtt specifically.

 

[ARM]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

We might be surprised if you actually posted what you were doing to help the situation...

I agree. I'm a fan, nothing more. Is there something that I should be doing that would help? Because if you put me in charge of "fixing" the situation, the only things that I could come up with that would make much of a difference within 4 years would be trying to weaken the North American teams (either use U-22 versions or split the squads and have Canada 1, Canada 2, USA 1, USA 2.) That doesn't really solve the problem, but it makes the scoreboard more palatable.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

We might be surprised if you actually posted what you were doing to help the situation...that is "probably certainly" more than others...or bbtt specifically.

Surprise!

Although I'm not at liberty to go into details...I can tell you that a consortium of Western Canadian hockey people are recruiting, financing & offering general support in an effort to develop young hockey minded people from around the globe by way of joining the ranks of minor & major female hockey teams in Western Canada.

Through this and specific exchange programs it is the hope that not only the players are exposed to the best coaching and development, but the foriegn coaching staffs are also afforded the the benefit of working with experienced individuals. The coaches then have the gained knowledge to take back to their programs which in turn should speed the development process.

Now what is your doing?

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I think you might be surprised at what I'm doing to help the situation and would suggest I'm probably certainly doing more than you.

If you think this kind of discussion "fuels the fire"...YOU will be one of the ones saying....What Happened?

Wait, I'm actually saying "what happened" right now...and I'm not one to usually say "what happened".

Someone hit someone over the head with their sister-in-laws tire iron from their 1968 Rambler that they bought on EBay or something? I'm not following this.....

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I agree. I'm a fan, nothing more. Is there something that I should be doing that would help? Because if you put me in charge of "fixing" the situation, the only things that I could come up with that would make much of a difference within 4 years would be trying to weaken the North American teams (either use U-22 versions or split the squads and have Canada 1, Canada 2, USA 1, USA 2.) That doesn't really solve the problem, but it makes the scoreboard more palatable.

How about PRE-game celebrations by US and Canada during all rounds?

 

[brookyone]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I'd like to hear any ideas or actions anyone has, or has taken in the effort to increase parity in women's international or Olympic hockey competition.

We've read some thoughts and ideas throughout this thread during the Olympic competition and it's many lopsided outcomes. Some ideas strike me as potentially more effective than others. The model I like the most is the magnanimous intervention of the NY Islanders organization on behalf of the Chinese and their effort to grow the sport internally and someday be more competitive. Something positive happened as China looked vastly improved since the last time I saw their national / Olympic team...at least to my eye. A simple thing like furnishing them with a quality coach.

It's a good example in my opinion. Something I'd like to see from more NHL franchises. Maybe fans of various NHL teams could write, call or gently pester the officers of those franchises to encourage similar efforts for other nations. Obviously you have to have a strong commitment from internal sports governing bodies. Without that, you're likely to get no where. I don't know how realistic the chances of involvement from NHL organizations are...but if the Islanders can do it... This is something I feel NHL organizations should definitely be doing within the US to hopefully grow the sport outside the existing hotbeds. Something I think needs to happen to compete more successfully with Canada.

I just think this type of action would ultimately be more effective towards facilitating parity in women's hockey on the international stage than worrying about NCAA D-I teams recruiting more players from outside North America (which strikes me as a cart before the horse type situation) or say...allowing an exception to NCAA rules for one player because that will somehow jump start a women's hockey program within her country of origin. First you have to foster the system that will eventually create the players that NCAA coaches are interested in recruiting. Even then, with the number of roster spots and the talent pool in North America, roster spots are going to be difficult to come by. The competition is pretty fierce as is...you really need a few more teams to remedy this.

Anyway, in the interest of parity among nations, it seems to me you need to facilitate some kind of youth movement within those nations competing, or wanting to compete to eventually have a larger number of Olympic teams battling for medals. If assistance from external organizations is what it's going to take, who better than pro / amateur organizations from the two North American powerhouses. Who else is going to do it?

 

[brookyone]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Surprise!

Although I'm not at liberty to go into details...I can tell you that a consortium of Western Canadian hockey people are recruiting, financing & offering general support in an effort to develop young hockey minded people from around the globe by way of joining the ranks of minor & major female hockey teams in Western Canada.

Through this and specific exchange programs it is the hope that not only the players are exposed to the best coaching and development, but the foriegn coaching staffs are also afforded the the benefit of working with experienced individuals. The coaches then have the gained knowledge to take back to their programs which in turn should speed the development process.

This is excellent...exactly what I'm talking about. Is this a change? I thought Canadian teams had a extremely provincial attitude with strict / low limits for foreign players on their rosters (major).

Now what is your doing?

Ya see, I didn't claim to be doing anything and then neglect to clue the rest of the forum in. Little distinction there.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

This is excellent...exactly what I'm talking about. Is this a change? I thought Canadian teams had a extremely provincial attitude with strict / low limits for foreign players on their rosters (major).


Ya see, I didn't claim to be doing anything and then neglect to clue the rest of the forum in. Little distinction there.

Well OK. I thought your previous post @ 12:19 was on point and to answer your question it has been easier to place girls at the level of "Pay to Play" as opposed to our minor hockey sysytem. But we are not going to let that deter us.

If we are going to wait around for Hockey Canada & USA Hockey to fix their own problem...it probably isn't going to happen. Too Big, Too Cumbersome, Too Self Serving. Don't get me wrong both organizations are doing what they can but it seems the resources are limited.

The biggest problems that we see is the lack of knowledge in the ranks of the coaching and development (no disrespect) of foreign nations. The goal here is two fold...get the interest of foreign nations through placement of exchange players willing to come to Canada/US to play in our leagues and have the coaching staffs of these nations involved at the development level to, for lack of a better phrase "Teach the Teachers."

Listen the tactic here is not the end all..be all, we understand that. The alternative however is to idley sit back and watch the thing, heaven forbid... implode. That can't happen.

The belief here is if the shift doesn't happen at the grassroot level...it is apt not to happen. Sponsorship and private funding are the keys to get the thing off the ground under this model and not everyone is willing or able to do that...so we do what we can.

 

[ARM]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

The belief here is if the shift doesn't happen at the grassroot level...it is apt not to happen.

My incorrect assumption was that the problem in Europe was a lack of access to ice time for girls. But after talking to someone heavily involved in Finland, I'm told that the problem there is girls don't have an interest. Just as the US is at a disadvantage in competition with Canada because our participation numbers are < yours, it will be tough for European countries to catch up if girls don't take up the game in the first place. And that is a difficult problem for anyone outside of their culture to change.

I understand that your organization is doing what it can, and those steps will improve the competitive balance. But it is tough to produce great players from a talent pool that doesn't want to play hockey. I expect that will change in the long run, but it isn't the type of problem that is solved in 4 years.

 

[EdSasha]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I agree. I'm a fan, nothing more. Is there something that I should be doing that would help? Because if you put me in charge of "fixing" the situation, the only things that I could come up with that would make much of a difference within 4 years would be trying to weaken the North American teams (either use U-22 versions or split the squads and have Canada 1, Canada 2, USA 1, USA 2.) That doesn't really solve the problem, but it makes the scoreboard more palatable.

Over continual objections from other soccer federations, the UK always has four teams eligible for the Soccer World Cup competition as distinct nations - England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (although rarely, if ever, have all four teams qualified for the finals each time - can't be bothered to check with World Cup archives).

There would no doubt be similar objections if Quebec had its own team, but there's no reason why it shouldn't, given that it has officially been granted 'distinct society' status if not outright nationhood within the Canadian federation. There yer go - two teams for the price of one. The only thing wrong with that scenario is that the talent pool north of the border is deep enough that you would then have three north american teams on the podium instead of two. But it would be a start.

Of course, it won't happen because, actually, there is a reason why not. Politically, the creation of a Quebec team would be strenuously resisted because such a team would create a catalyst which would have the potential of starting the slide towards the separation of Quebec from Canada, thus initiating the possibility of the break up of the whole confederation.

Hey not such a bad idea. Then you'd have a team for every province/nation plus the northern territories which would give you... well, more than ten teams anyway. The US would then get gold for a couple of Olympics until everyone got up to speed.

Rambling a bit here...