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Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

mookie1995 said:
i recall hearing that muslim women were going to get court ordered excusal from the patdowns as it violates their religous rights or something to be touched in that potential fashion.....
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That turns out to be a false rumor. CAIR was recommending that if a woman in a hijab got subjected to extra screening because of the hijab (not because of the metal detector or backscatter) they insist on only having the area covered by the hijab patted down. Not the simplest piece of advice, and easily distorted given some American attitudes towards muslims.

Re: Israel, I read an interesting article about the benefits of behavioral profiling. Part of it sounded like what happens at most immigration checkpoints. You get asked a few random questions and presumably profiled based on how squirrelly you act in response. There were also some good points on threat containment e.g., bomb-proof boxes at screening checkpoints so you don't have to evacuate an entire terminal over a lump of play-doh.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

jtwcornell91 said:
That turns out to be a false rumor. CAIR was recommending that if a woman in a hijab got subjected to extra screening because of the hijab (not because of the metal detector or backscatter) they insist on only having the area covered by the hijab patted down. Not the simplest piece of advice, and easily distorted given some American attitudes towards muslims.

Re: Israel, I read an interesting article about the benefits of behavioral profiling. Part of it sounded like what happens at most immigration checkpoints. You get asked a few random questions and presumably profiled based on how squirrelly you act in response. There were also some good points on threat containment e.g., bomb-proof boxes at screening checkpoints so you don't have to evacuate an entire terminal over a lump of play-doh.
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In the article I referenced earlier by the American pulled out of line for having "too many" passport stamps from middle eastern countries: the man described the interrogation as very fast paced, with questions having no apparant purpose or context being fired seemingly at random. He said it was pretty intense. BTW: I've been unsuccessful in locating that article.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

In another context, Jackie Mason used to say he could fix the problems with Congress: "Put 'em on commission." Both quotes are funny. Neither is possible.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

UNH GH said:
Pointless argument. TLV is Israel's ONLY major airport, 11,000,000 passengers/year travel through it. Newark is the 14th busiest airport in the US, at 33,400,000. You have 21 US Airports that exceed TLV's numbers, and a whopping 86 that handle at least a million passengers annually.

Yes, Israel does it right. But the scope is SIGNIFICANTLY less. It's not feasible for the US.

As someone who spent two years in the industry, and wants to work in the industry in the future, there's no way to be 100% safe, not even close.

Security keeps honest people honest. That's all. The amount of access any airline/cleaning/catering employee has negates any screening to passengers. Passengers aren't going to allow someone to hijack a plane anymore, it just won't happen. But a disgruntled/bribed employee has the means to do just about anything.
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I don't think it is pointless to look at a successful system in another country and try to figure out how to employ a variation here...Granted, it would be easier to monitor one airport than hundreds but how did we make the leap to the ridiculous process we have now? What is the cost benefit of what we are doing? If we said "let's build the most expensive system possible to increase safety by a thousandth of a point", we'd be pretty close to successful.

If they took TSA people and put them at the entrance to the garage, made sure they were always at the beginning of the line asking how you are doing, what flight are you on etc. they'd get more done than having 9 people within 10 feet of the xray all standing around. Some of those people get paid to take the empty trays back to the start of the xray...they may rotate, but in the end, we pay thousands of people a day to stack and wheel plastic trays.

Maybe they should only work 4 days a week, randomly, and only screen people who bought a same day ticket.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Old Pio said:
In the article I referenced earlier by the American pulled out of line for having "too many" passport stamps from middle eastern countries: the man described the interrogation as very fast paced, with questions having no apparant purpose or context being fired seemingly at random. He said it was pretty intense. BTW: I've been unsuccessful in locating that article.
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IIRC, the current TSA stuff after 9/11 and why we didn't copy the Israeli system was because of a quivering little squish named Norman Mineta who carried the scars of the Japanese internment. He wanted a race-neutral policy and copying El Al's behavioral pattern methods would be rife for challenges due to race and ethnicity... and when you think like Norman you are going to assume that most people are latent racists so they should have the decision taken out of their hands and left up to a series of technical rules applied to everybody blindly. Thank him when your little girl is having her photo taken.

edit: I find it VERY hard to believe that Israel's system can't be scaled up because we're a big nation. It just means that any issues that arise from a system will be amplified by a proportional factor.

The thing is, while I do want to see good security measures, did we not do this before because we lacked the means or because there was no good reason. I'm wondering if current policy exists in order to have either a higher level take down (create a situation to then scale back beyond the previous protocol) or a lower level step back (set up an absurd situation and then scale back to a lesser absurd situation which doesn't look nearly as crazy in comparison).
 
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Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Patman said:
IIRC, the current TSA stuff after 9/11 and why we didn't copy the Israeli system was because of a quivering little squish named Norman Mineta who carried the scars of the Japanese internment. He wanted a race-neutral policy and copying El Al's behavioral pattern methods would be rife for challenges due to race and ethnicity... and when you think like Norman you are going to assume that most people are latent racists so they should have the decision taken out of their hands and left up to a series of technical rules applied to everybody blindly. Thank him when your little girl is having her photo taken.
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It's a good thing cops aren't required to follow these guidelines. You have a child sexually assaulted and you begin by questioning the perverts in the kid's neighborhood. Alternativelly, can't you just see Andy Sipowitz questioning little old ladies, nannies, Fuller Brush men, randomly, trying to find their perp?

BTW, a good number of posters on this thread seem to have been channeling Mineta. Establishing common sense protocals for terrorists is definitley out. Fondling nuns and children is definitely in.
 
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Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

WeWantMore said:
On the other hand, a former Bush official is also involved. You're telling me if this was 2007, every liberal wouldn't be up in arms about that?

The point is, the current TSA policy is silly, regardless of who's in charge.
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Don't know for sure. But this just doesn't seem like an issue in general that the left would get too charged about...assuming security is at stake and everyone is treated equally (just like I don't think the left cared about the Janet Jackson superbowl deal).

I also don't know if 'silly' is the right word. The whole issue is quite important...it just depends on where one draws the line between security and privacy as to what's best.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7e_Ng5_F6Q

Here's a little segment from the chick prison flick called "Caged" I referenced earlier. The evil butch matron is, IMO, a prototype for the "ladies" who work for TSA feeling up little girls. The actress is the wonderful Hope Emerson, who was 6'2" and weighed 230. I'm guessing many of TSA's "girls" meet or exceed those measurements and reflect the matron's attitudes.
 
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Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Old Pio said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7e_Ng5_F6Q

Here's a little segment from the chick prison flick called "Caged" I referenced earlier. The evil butch matron is, IMO, a prototype for the "ladies" who work for TSA feeling up little girls. The actress is the wonderful Hope Emerson, who was 6'2" and weighed 230. I'm guessing many of TSA's "girls" meet or exceed those measurements and reflect the matron's attitudes.
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:rolleyes: Critical thinking at its best.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Sale on tin foil hats this Black Friday! 10% off if you're a homophobe.

It's a stupid policy and should be ended, but there's nothing evil about TSOs. They're the same poor schmucks you'll find doing crap work everywhere. The policymakers are the same apparatchiks you'll find working middle management at Proctor and Gamble or the RNC (although admittedly many of the latter may have self-loathing gay tendencies, judging by their Congressional caucus and clerical constituents).

Although most evil is banal, not all banality is evil.

It would be GREAT, however, if the thing that finally brought down Bush's Security State was an irrational fear of butch lesbians. Talk about being hoist by your own petard. :)

We could solve these problems by only hiring cute TSOs and getting to choose the one who searches us. "Helllllllllllllo, sailor!" ;)
 
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Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Kepler said:
We could solve these problems by only hiring cute TSOs and getting to choose the one who searches us. "Helllllllllllllo, sailor!" ;)
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I'm hiding something here. No wait...it's here. Yea right there
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Kepler said:
Sale on tin foil hats this Black Friday! 10% off if you're a homophobe.

It's a stupid policy and should be ended, but there's nothing evil about TSOs. They're the same poor schmucks you'll find doing crap work everywhere. The policymakers are the same apparatchiks you'll find working middle management at Proctor and Gamble or the RNC (although admittedly many of the latter may have self-loathing gay tendencies, judging by their Congressional caucus and clerical constituents).

Although most evil is banal, not all banality is evil.

It would be GREAT, however, if the thing that finally brought down Bush's Security State was an irrational fear of butch lesbians. Talk about being hoist by your own petard. :)

We could solve these problems by only hiring cute TSOs and getting to choose the one who searches us. "Helllllllllllllo, sailor!" ;)
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Actually, I think Hope Emerson was sorta hot, in her own mastadonian way.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Old Pio said:
Certainly a possibility. I know, let's fondle some more little girls. That'll fix it.
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You are completely f*d up man. When the next plane blows up because of a terrorist threat, it's people like you who will be first in line saying we need tougher security measures. What the H-E-double bendy straws is the problem of going through a scanner so you don't get the pat down? What's the big f*n deal? if you don't like the normal measures, deal with the consequences and shut the f up!
 
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