Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

[LynahFan]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

You've got a firm grasp of the obvious, Skippy.

And now, thanks to me, you might, too.

But why do you think I am interested in your prejudices and bigotry?

Says the guy who's this close to advocating racial profiling? Saying "Happy Holidays" is gear-grinding persecution of Christians, but invasive patdowns of Muslims only would be A-OK? Unbelievable.

 

[walrus]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

You've got a pretty harsh definition of "whiner." How many breast cancer survivors do you know who wouldn't have a problem exposing their prosthesis, in public, in front of a bunch of strangers? Whiner? Is the father of the `14-year old wheelchair bound girl forced to have her crotch palpated a whiner? Really? Or how about the guy who got drenched in urine because of an over enthusiastic Barney Fife? That wouldn't bother you? He's a whiner? Shame on you.

Why would have to expose a prosthesis?, you can ask for a private screening in a private room away from the check point?

 

[leswp1]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

If I wore a Speedo of any description, the terminal would empty out in seconds.

you are gmann in disguise

Sure, it's obvious to you and to me, but I guarantee you there are people (some of whom probably post here) who would argue that "respecting someone else's religious traditions" trumps security concerns.

The only thing they need is a woman to do the exam. I would imagine that this would be what most women would want. (fascinating the men are freaked by someone with parts like theirs doing the patdown but women are not).

Well, I guess they assume we're smart enough to learn our lesson after an attack. You're advocating proving them wrong?


Which would be nowhere near as whiny as your rant about how incompetent our government is if a terrorist blew an airliner out of the sky using a method that has been used before....

Why would have to expose a prosthesis?, you can ask for a private screening in a private room away from the check point?

Voices of reason- you obviously don't belong here!

Can't remember who was saying it is about the 4th amendment- I can understand that argument. If people present that in a reasonable manner it is a powerful argument. When folks start with the inflammatory rhetoric and the other things that are not based in fact to bolster the argument, then it is more difficult to understand. If I know the 'facts' being used to argue the case are faulty or inflated it makes me not listen to the rest.

I still can't understand the schizo attitudes re security and privacy- Protect us, you aren't doing enough to protect us but... even if your solutions are based in the facts of what you find as failures in the system don't do anything we might not like, there must be a better answer!

It also is curious that we need to protect/respect these freedoms of privacy but should not need to protect/respect others like religion when it comes to labeling everything Christmas v holiday. It takes a pretty interesting thought process to do this simultaneoulsy. Are these rights not equal in the eyes of the law as well as the intent?

 

[bronconick]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

This whole thing is just an absurdity, but we're incapable as a nation or society of doing anything reasonable when insanity will work better, so here we are.

9/11 succeeded because Americans as a whole viewed hijackings as a hostage situation and not a scenario where planes get turned into slow moving missiles. That's obviously not going to happen again, as that belief didn't even survive the day, given Flight 93.

Keeping stuff off the planes, sure. There's no real reason for you to be carrying a gun, knife, box cutter, rope, etc. on board anyway. Metal detectors and scanning carry-ons/luggage? Duh.

If a guy shoves the pieces of a bomb up his ***, or whatever the hell they're searching for, odds are someone will notice him acting like a farking moron like the shoe bomber and jump him. There's no need for one in every ten people taking planes to molested at random for the duel absurdity of thinking a 3 year old is a likely terrorist suspect and that they're going to go with the plane thing again when they can buy a dozen guns, walk across the Mexican border and light up some malls instead. (What? Clancy called the plane into building thing pre-2001. I'm dumbfounded they haven't used this idea yet)

Doing it at random isn't worth the effort because we all know you're wasting most of your time, and the people running this thing aren't clever or well-trained enough to see small things that might make you want to pick someone at random looking suspicious. Profiling isn't either, since half the guys they've arrested for being failures were white dudes that converted anyway. Grappling everyone? Yeah, that's a riot waiting to happen. Just deal with the 10,000% less likely risk that your fellow traveler is going to kill you by terrorism instead of drinking like a fish and slamming his car into you on the way to the airport.

 

[theprofromdover]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Why would have to expose a prosthesis?, you can ask for a private screening in a private room away from the check point?

Or, better yet, be scanned.

 

[theprofromdover]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

My point is that your post is about racial profiling, not about sexual assault, and your title is misleading.

Gee, there's a surprise. I always thought Old Pio was a social progressive.

 

[theprofromdover]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

but then how would i get cheap booze!?!?!?!

Sterno?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

If you're scoring at home: torture, black sites, invasion, wiretapping and suspension of habeas corpus were okay, but touching our junk WILL NOT STAND!

 

[pirate]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Except your plan still treats many, many Americans like criminals. Only treating certain people like criminals based on their race isn't a step forward. It's a big step backwards.

Right now we're all treated like criminals. It's been posted on here before how the Israeli's handle airport security, which isn't randomly screening 9 year old kids. They have higher risk, lower costs and right now are as effective as we are. If the terrorists wanted to change our way of life and damage our economy, they are doing so...we are wasting hundreds of millions of dollars a year on a process that has no proof it is better than any other way; with the added bonus of eroding trust and faith in our government, causing in-fighting politically and setting us up for a "but you promised us we'd be safe if we just let you touch us" chorus if something terrible does happen.

We all should stay away from absolutes here...sounds like people here are saying either it is cavity searching young girls or beating turban wearers with rubber hoses until they confess...the solution is neither and we all know it.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

If you're scoring at home: torture, black sites, invasion, wiretapping and suspension of habeas corpus were okay, but touching our junk WILL NOT STAND!

Given American movies and TV's view on violence vs. sex, this is surprising to no one.

 

[unofan]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

If you're scoring at home: torture, black sites, invasion, wiretapping and suspension of habeas corpus were okay, but touching our junk WILL NOT STAND!

Plenty of people railed against all of the former too. But there's always the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

And face it, more people fly in a single hour than will ever be directly impacted by torture, habeas corpus, or wiretapping. For better or worse, it's no surprise that something that the general public experiences will generate more outrage than something that most people will never be directly affected by.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

If you're scoring at home: torture, black sites, invasion, wiretapping and suspension of habeas corpus were okay, but touching our junk WILL NOT STAND!

Which could just as easily be turned around for liberals who think all those things are bad, but by all means grope away!

Why can't both be wrong?

 

[pirate]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Plenty of people railed against all of the former too. But there's always the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

And face it, more people fly in a single hour than will ever be directly impacted by torture, habeas corpus, or wiretapping. For better or worse, it's no surprise that something that the general public experiences will generate more outrage than something that most people will never be directly affected by.

Fair points, I also think that even the momentary insanity that allowed torture etc. can be halted as we come to our senses or change leadership...The TSA situation spans administrations and is not likely to stop...I'd even submit that it will get worse (and more expensive) over time as we try to nitpick our way to a 100% certain way to identify maybe a few dozen people out of the hundreds of millions that fly. We've got all kinds of folks on here that can quote theorems and razors and rules...what is the one that applies to the shrinking likelihood you'll prevent something when your tactics are so predictable? If it really came down to it, all terrorists need to do is change their focus to tampering with the water supply or some other wholly different approach and then they've further strung out our resources while we continue to tilt at windmills

 

[bronconick]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

The best part is that even the head of the TSA admits this has jack-all to do with actual security and more with giving the illusion that airports are now safe.

For the TSA, he (Pistole) said, "it comes down to how do we give the highest level of confidence to everybody on that flight that everybody else has been properly screened, including you and me?"

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/11/21/tsa.pat.downs/index.html?hpt=C1

 

[UNH GH]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

I'll say it again, but this time I will speak very slowly okay? We're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on "security" which, in fact, doesn't make us more "secure." The Israelis seem to have developed a system which offers more "security," and I'm suggesting we get past our knee jerk reactions about "profiling" and see if there's anything we can learn from how they do it. As to expense, we've already hired 65-thousand morons in the TSA, so we're already spending a lot of money and getting practically nothing for it.

I'm not saying we don't need security, I'm saying we need different security. BTW, Richard Reed got his shoe bomb on a plane, it just failed to work. Same thing with the panty bomber, he got it on the plane, it just failed to work.

Pointless argument. TLV is Israel's ONLY major airport, 11,000,000 passengers/year travel through it. Newark is the 14th busiest airport in the US, at 33,400,000. You have 21 US Airports that exceed TLV's numbers, and a whopping 86 that handle at least a million passengers annually.

Yes, Israel does it right. But the scope is SIGNIFICANTLY less. It's not feasible for the US.

As someone who spent two years in the industry, and wants to work in the industry in the future, there's no way to be 100% safe, not even close.

Security keeps honest people honest. That's all. The amount of access any airline/cleaning/catering employee has negates any screening to passengers. Passengers aren't going to allow someone to hijack a plane anymore, it just won't happen. But a disgruntled/bribed employee has the means to do just about anything.

 

[MaizeRage]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Right now we're all treated like criminals.

So what you're saying is that we should only treat certain people like criminals, based on the color of their skin. Gotcha.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

The best part is that even the head of the TSA admits this has jack-all to do with actual security and more with giving the illusion that airports are now safe.

With the exception of the numb-nuts we hire from shopping mall kiosks to be TSOs (that is not an exaggeration) and a couple politicals from the prior and current administrations, everyone at TSA knows this is all Security Theater. It's also pointless, intrusive, and laughable.

But many of the loudest critics are late to this party and were perfectly okay watching us turn into a wanna-be police state when they held the whip hand and were pretty sure the only innocents who were going to get groped (or imprisoned, or bombed) weren't... them. Their sudden conversion to the cause of civil liberties is kind of hard to take seriously.

And good luck telling them the wars they started have to be paid for with higher taxes. My God, man? Are you a Socialist?!

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

So what you're saying is that we should only treat certain people like criminals, based on the color of their skin. Gotcha.

That is not what profiling entails. Stop pretending like it is.

 

[MountieBoyOz]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

I like this idea if hasn't been previously mentioned.

Kilts for the TSA

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Pointless argument. TLV is Israel's ONLY major airport, 11,000,000 passengers/year travel through it. Newark is the 14th busiest airport in the US, at 33,400,000. You have 21 US Airports that exceed TLV's numbers, and a whopping 86 that handle at least a million passengers annually.

Yes, Israel does it right. But the scope is SIGNIFICANTLY less. It's not feasible for the US.

As someone who spent two years in the industry, and wants to work in the industry in the future, there's no way to be 100% safe, not even close.

Security keeps honest people honest. That's all. The amount of access any airline/cleaning/catering employee has negates any screening to passengers. Passengers aren't going to allow someone to hijack a plane anymore, it just won't happen. But a disgruntled/bribed employee has the means to do just about anything.

Pointless? Really? Your "two years in the industry" qualifies you to decide we have nothing to learn from the Israelis, so don't even try? Yes, we have many more terminals and passengers, we also have many more citizens. You say it's not possible, why? We have interstates. We've gone to the moon. Why, just because it would be a big undertaking, is it not feasible for us to have an Israeli-like system? We've already got 65 thousand drones on the payroll.

So we're spending billions of dollars to "keep honest people honest." To guard against the guy who casually decides to take down an airliner (and himself) because he got some smartmouth when he checked in?

And your point about airline/airport employees is well taken and is just another example of how we're wasting our time and money. We should either abandon the current practices or look for a way to actually provide some security. Feeling up old ladies isn't gretting it done and you've admitted it.