Still Complaining About ESPN...

[Dude Love]

Re: Still Complaining About ESPN...

That must be why ESPN focuses so much attention on the Mets. Not to mention the Celtics, Knicks, Nets, Jets, Giants, Rangers, Islanders and Bruins.

It's NBC's job to overplay the Rangers & Bruins. Not sure why the Islanders get no airtime.

What day and what channel the Jets & Giants play is regulated by the NFL. ESPN doesn't just go "oh we'll take that Jets-Dolphins game." It has to be on a Monday night.

Nobody actually cares about basketball.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Still Complaining About ESPN...

The other thing to mention, like every interview he's done, Boris Mikhailov sounds like a whiny d-bag.

I actually think he has a sense of humor that maybe doesn't translate real well when he tries to speak english.

I was thinking when I watched that show last night. I wonder what the Russian players really think about the 1980 Olympics, Miracle on Ice, blah, blah, blah? Even though they lost, here we are 35 years later still adding to their 15 minutes of fame. No one is interviewing any of them about the '76 Olympics.

I am interested in seeing Red Army, but the Minneapolis writer who apparently saw both thought the ESPN show was better. We'll see, I guess.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Still Complaining About ESPN...

I wonder what the Russian players really think about the 1980 Olympics, Miracle on Ice, blah, blah, blah? Even though they lost, here we are 35 years later still adding to their 15 minutes of fame. No one is interviewing any of them about the '76 Olympics.

It's a meal ticket. I doubt they think about it at all other than the ability to make coin on the US market. I'm sure they think they were rooked out of it in some way; that's how we react whenever we lose.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Still Complaining About ESPN...

The other thing to mention, like every interview he's done, Boris Mikhailov sounds like a whiny d-bag.

Just watched the doc on youtube (it's on there in its entirety), and Boris didn't come across as whiny. Arrogant? Oh hell yes, but that's understandable. Excellent, excellent doc. And between this one, The U, and the Greg LeMond one....tough to name a #1 in my eyes.

Edit: Hovey: in the doc, they talk about it. You have a boy that kissed Sophia Loren, and he'll talk about that the rest of his life. Ask Sophia about it, she won't remember.

I'd say that is a pretty solid comparison.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Just watched the doc on youtube (it's on there in its entirety), and Boris didn't come across as whiny. Arrogant? Oh hell yes, but that's understandable. Excellent, excellent doc. And between this one, The U, and the Greg LeMond one....tough to name a #1 in my eyes.

Edit: Hovey: in the doc, they talk about it. You have a boy that kissed Sophia Loren, and he'll talk about that the rest of his life. Ask Sophia about it, she won't remember.

I'd say that is a pretty solid comparison.

I guess I see Mikhailov as whiney more when he talks about the 72 Series. In this doc he's still talking about Bobby Clarke and breaking the guys ankle and how that meant the Canadians had to cheat. Maybe someday Boris will get it that Bobby Clarke was just an *hole that did that to anyone.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Still Complaining About ESPN...

I guess I see Mikhailov as whiney more when he talks about the 72 Series. In this doc he's still talking about Bobby Clarke and breaking the guys ankle and how that meant the Canadians had to cheat. Maybe someday Boris will get it that Bobby Clarke was just an *hole that did that to anyone.

I can understand how you have that point of view. And honestly, yeah, the Canadians were dirty in that series, and I can understand the Russians' complaints (actually just ordered the Summit Series off of Amazon). I'd beech, too, if that happened to my teammate. From a neutral person for that series...the Russians ran into physical hockey for the first time, and they didn't know how to deal with it, IMO. I bet if one of them fought back, actually fought back, got into a scrapper with one of the Canadians...the series might have been different.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: Still Complaining About ESPN...

I will say though, the doc did have a nice contrast between Mikhailov and Slava Fetisov. Boris' arrogance vs Fetisov's honesty. Mikhailov sits and raves about how much better they were but they were overconfident while Fetisov was just honest, they tried to win but couldn't score, it happens.

I guess I don't like the arrogance from Mikhailov because it's part of that narrative that the US team was a bunch of scrubs that I don't like.

 

[Jimjamesak]

I can understand how you have that point of view. And honestly, yeah, the Canadians were dirty in that series, and I can understand the Russians' complaints (actually just ordered the Summit Series off of Amazon). I'd beech, too, if that happened to my teammate. From a neutral person for that series...the Russians ran into physical hockey for the first time, and they didn't know how to deal with it, IMO. I bet if one of them fought back, actually fought back, got into a scrapper with one of the Canadians...the series might have been different.

That's always been my view on that series.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Still Complaining About ESPN...

I will say though, the doc did have a nice contrast between Mikhailov and Slava Fetisov. Boris' arrogance vs Fetisov's honesty. Mikhailov sits and raves about how much better they were but they were overconfident while Fetisov was just honest, they tried to win but couldn't score, it happens.

I guess I don't like the arrogance from Mikhailov because it's part of that narrative that the US team was a bunch of scrubs that I don't like.

The US WAS a bunch of scrubs, relatively. USSR trained their whole lives for world competition. The US players just trained for college and MAYBE a shot at the pros (the sports scene back then was not like it is now, remember). Think of the situation in reverse: what if the NHL decided to take on the amateur teams of other countries?

 

[Jimjamesak]

The US WAS a bunch of scrubs, relatively. USSR trained their whole lives for world competition. The US players just trained for college and MAYBE a shot at the pros (the sports scene back then was not like it is now, remember). Think of the situation in reverse: what if the NHL decided to take on the amateur teams of other countries?

I understand that narrative but it's the notion that "they're just students" that irks me. Like it was the Great Russian Machine versus some college kids pounding a keg pregame. It's made to look like that team was full of a bunch of talentless hacks when they really weren't.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Still Complaining About ESPN...

I understand that narrative but it's the notion that "they're just students" that irks me. Like it was the Great Russian Machine versus some college kids pounding a keg pregame. It's made to look like that team was full of a bunch of talentless hacks when they really weren't.

I think we are talking about some semantics. Compared to the Russian Machine, the US was about that talented in comparison. I am not saying that the US was a bunch of intramural guys overall, but COMPARED to the Russians...the US players had no business on the same rink, as far as skill and discipline go (going by paper stats, etc). It'd be like lining up the best college baseball players and having them face the 1920's Yankees.

 

[Jimjamesak]

I think we are talking about some semantics. Compared to the Russian Machine, the US was about that talented in comparison. I am not saying that the US was a bunch of intramural guys overall, but COMPARED to the Russians...the US players had no business on the same rink, as far as skill and discipline go (going by paper stats, etc). It'd be like lining up the best college baseball players and having them face the 1920's Yankees.

Not semantics, I've just never bought the narrative of the Soviets being that great. I understand they were great, just not this machine that couldn't lose. I just find it to be warped by the Liberty Valance effect: "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

 

[The Rube]

Re: Still Complaining About ESPN...

Not semantics, I've just never bought the narrative of the Soviets being that great. I understand they were great, just not this machine that couldn't lose. I just find it to be warped by the Liberty Valance effect: "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

Tretiak was astounding. Honestly, he's probably the best goalie I ever have seen. Could it be that his style was ahead of the times? Sure. The non-goalies? Good, great. Unstoppable? As individuals? Meh. As a cohesive unit? That is up for debate.

Take Gretzky or Mario. You are not going to stop them. Individually, they are untouchable. I'll try to explain my POV by crossing sports: the NE Patriots...individually, most are not great. Not even close. As a team, though...gotta give credit. Similar to Tarasov's Bobby Orr explanation. 1-on-1? We lose. 2-on-2? We have a chance. 5-on-5? We win.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Still Complaining About ESPN...

Not semantics, I've just never bought the narrative of the Soviets being that great. I understand they were great, just not this machine that couldn't lose. I just find it to be warped by the Liberty Valance effect: "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

Interesting point of view- being that this team beat a team that was mostly of future NHL Hall of Famers, HUGE HUGE talent on that team- lost the series 2-1, having gotten their rears handed to them in game 3. If you put that team of all stars against the US team, pretty much everyone would expect the NHL all start team to win.

Not sure how one does not conclude that they were easily the best team in the world at the time, by a pretty wide margin.

They admitted that the win over the US team pre-Olympics as well as their very easy path through the first round made them very over confident. And were stunned and could not figure out how to deal with the US team that played them that famous Friday afternoon.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Tretiak was astounding. Honestly, he's probably the best goalie I ever have seen. Could it be that his style was ahead of the times? Sure. The non-goalies? Good, great. Unstoppable? As individuals? Meh. As a cohesive unit? That is up for debate.

Take Gretzky or Mario. You are not going to stop them. Individually, they are untouchable. I'll try to explain my POV by crossing sports: the NE Patriots...individually, most are not great. Not even close. As a team, though...gotta give credit. Similar to Tarasov's Bobby Orr explanation. 1-on-1? We lose. 2-on-2? We have a chance. 5-on-5? We win.

I understand, I'm not saying they weren't a great team, they were. Tretiak is one best goalies ever no doubt.

I'm skeptical of things just based on how hockey in general was at that time. There's a lot "but" for that period. The Soviets won all these Olympics and World Championships but they didn't really have any competition as it was all amateurs and Canada didn't even send teams in the 70s. The 72 Series didn't have Bobby Hull or Bobby Orr. Canada won the Canada Cup in 76 but the Soviets didn't send their best team. The Challenge Cup in 79 is one that people latch onto, it was a series against the best NHL players! Except it was really a bunch of guys thrown together during the All-Star break. There was never really a true test of "best on best" in that era, so the Soviets have had this mystique about them built up over time because it fit the narrative. Likewise the US team gets the same treatment, the plucky underdogs pulling a miracle upset! Nevermind there was plenty of talent on a team that was well coached and well trained.

I guess I look at it through a different lens as I was born in 1985, well after it happened.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Interesting point of view- being that this team beat a team that was mostly of future NHL Hall of Famers, HUGE HUGE talent on that team- lost the series 2-1, having gotten their rears handed to them in game 3. If you put that team of all stars against the US team, pretty much everyone would expect the NHL all start team to win.

Not sure how one does not conclude that they were easily the best team in the world at the time, by a pretty wide margin.

They admitted that the win over the US team pre-Olympics as well as their very easy path through the first round made them very over confident. And were stunned and could not figure out how to deal with the US team that played them that famous Friday afternoon.

See that's where I get skeptical. Everybody touts how the Soviets won the Challenge Cup. Except, like I said, it was the All-Star Game. The NHL team had what? 2-3 days of practice together? Versus a team playing together for years? Yes the Soviets were great, not astronomically great though.

The "very easy path" is misleading as well. Yes the Soviets blew out Poland, Holland, and Japan but they gloss over the fact they had tight games against Finland and Canada, who both had leads in the third period by the way.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Still Complaining About ESPN...

Uh that USSR team was virtually unbeatable. Look at their record through that era.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Still Complaining About ESPN...

Uh that USSR team was virtually unbeatable. Look at their record through that era.

Yup. As for being old enough to understand this event, I am young enough where this didn't really enter my world as a sports fan (my family is not into sports like we are) until I was a teenager at best. The Russians were a pure machine. I really don't know of any other team in any sport that can compare. I'll list a few that could maybe be in the same breath:

2008-2010 UConn women's basketball (90 game winning streak)
1972 NFL Miami Dolphins (17-0)
1950's MLB NY Yankees
1960's NBA Boston Celtics
1964-75 UCLA Bruins men's basketball

And frankly, the UConn team is the only one I'd seriously compare to the USSR hockey team. That's how dominant those teams were.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: Still Complaining About ESPN...

Yup. As for being old enough to understand this event, I am young enough where this didn't really enter my world as a sports fan (my family is not into sports like we are) until I was a teenager at best. The Russians were a pure machine. I really don't know of any other team in any sport that can compare. I'll list a few that could maybe be in the same breath:

2008-2010 UConn women's basketball (90 game winning streak)
1972 NFL Miami Dolphins (17-0)
1950's MLB NY Yankees
1960's NBA Boston Celtics
1964-75 UCLA Bruins men's basketball

And frankly, the UConn team is the only one I'd seriously compare to the USSR hockey team. That's how dominant those teams were.

I don't even think you need to narrow UConn down to a few years. They just won their 300th game at Gampel Pavilion. It only took them 319 games to do so.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Still Complaining About ESPN...

I don't even think you need to narrow UConn down to a few years. They just won their 300th game at Gampel Pavilion. It only took them 319 games to do so.

That is a good point. UConn is friggin' amazing. With respect to the Vols, I'd say UConn is the best women's b-ball program ever, and outside of those two programs, it's not even close.