SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

[Handyman]

Those people do exist. I know 3 or 4 personally who have gone into great communication about why their vote for him last time was a mistake

I know of a couple myself...and most of the people I know (outside of 1 who is off his meds and going down a dark path) who even defended him have pretty much stopped.

Look Kepler is in all or nothing mode right now and I get it. Once the election is over if Biden gets inaugurated he will calm down and be a bit more reasonable. That is why I am trying not to be vitriolic about it I totally get his point and where he is coming from he just is in fight or flight mode and needs to take a breath. I had to go one a 4 day road trip to get rid of the anxiety I was starting to feel about all this.

 

[MissThundercat]

Can't move; don't have that kind of money.

Waiting for a ballot initiative in MI 2022, for an expanded court, whatever... don't have that kind of time.

In the end, I know that protecting the vulnerable means leaving yourself vulnerable, and us trans elders will wrap our wings around the younger ones and say "we're here and we're not going anywhere."

 

[dxmnkd316]

That doesn't explain the House in 2018 and I think you're simplistically addressing reasons why they may lose the Senate in 2020. The nazis are going to nazi, but you completely fail to comprehend the scope of those that gave Trump a chance once but won't fall for it again.

The American public will absolutely fall for it again.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Can't move; don't have that kind of money.

I honestly believe that most of the folks around here cannot understand this. Having the money to completely uproot yourself and move far away (and your family like in my case), let alone being able to find a job in said place, is extremely difficult for most.

 

[Handyman]

I honestly believe that most of the folks around here cannot understand this. Having the money to completely uproot yourself and move far away (and your family like in my case), let alone being able to find a job in said place, is extremely difficult for most.

I understand it...that is why I say if Trump wins as soon as I am able I am out of here. It might take years because of my parents and my gfs parents. To be able to just walk away is hard. When I moved to Seattle it took months of planning and it still went sideways on a few things. Uprooting my entire life is hard even with few ties let alone when you have a job, friends, family, a house...etc.

dx,

Overall yes the public will fall for this crap again, they always do. But there are some who at least, right now, have had enough. Once they are a few years removed though they will line up and dance for their authoritarian masters again. History shows that to be the case throughout the course of human civilization. The key is to fix as much as you can when given the chance and hope people ignore their reptillian brain in sufficient numbers to drown out the lazy and spineless. Of course considering how many people listen to morons like Joe Rogan and think he is some sort of intellectual we are probably in for a world of hurt in a few years.

"Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into despotisms."
-Aristotle

 

[SJHovey]

I honestly believe that most of the folks around here cannot understand this. Having the money to completely uproot yourself and move far away (and your family like in my case), let alone being able to find a job in said place, is extremely difficult for most.

I completely disagree with this.

Making such a move is definitely scary. It takes courage. It takes faith in your own ability. It is stepping out onto the highwire without a safety net. It is certainly not easy. But someone who says I don't have the money to move is probably the person who needs to make that move.

Take someone like me, who is older, who owns his own business, who now has deep connections to the community in which he lives. I have more than enough money to move anywhere I'd like, but it would be silly of me to do so unless I was basically bribed by a much better offer than my current circumstances.

The people from Europe who made the crossing to the US, Cubans who floated here on rafts, the Okies who moved to California, Mexicans who walked across the desert and swam a river, none of them had the "money to move." You make the move because of that. You make the move because you are obviously not successful where you are, so you need to try to make it somewhere else.

 

[Jimjamesak]

I completely disagree with this.

Making such a move is definitely scary. It takes courage. It takes faith in your own ability. It is stepping out onto the highwire without a safety net. It is certainly not easy. But someone who says I don't have the money to move is probably the person who needs to make that move.

Take someone like me, who is older, who owns his own business, who now has deep connections to the community in which he lives. I have more than enough money to move anywhere I'd like, but it would be silly of me to do so unless I was basically bribed by a much better offer than my current circumstances.

The people from Europe who made the crossing to the US, Cubans who floated here on rafts, the Okies who moved to California, Mexicans who walked across the desert and swam a river, none of them had the "money to move." You make the move because of that. You make the move because you are obviously not successful where you are, so you need to try to make it somewhere else.

Your statement sums up why I’m saying most of you don’t understand.

People like MissT and myself are not people leaving a desperate situation where either you stay and die or move and live. We’re working class people who have a sustainable situation but are worried about threats that, while we won’t die, will affect our lives.

Also, most of you are college educated folks with jobs in in demand fields like engineering. Jobs where the opportunity to move to a different city are frequent and money is not much of an issue. Flat out, that doesn’t happen for working class people.

 

[Slap Shot]

As someone that has moved half-way across the globe 3 times and back (well not back yet the 3rd time) and was able to do it 'comfortably' I cannot fathom doing it with lesser financial means. Yes fleeing genocide (or extremely dire and dangerous circumstances) might make it a necessity for some, but I wouldn't wish it on anyone that's not fully prepared financially, emotionally, logistically, etc.

 

[wolverineTrumpet]

Are college-educated, suburban women switching to Biden or not? That’s been the narrative. Is it wrong? Did they just stay home before and not vote for Trump in 2016?
If no one changes their mind, how did you?

As a college-educated, suburban woman, I can tell you my mind has not been changed. I continue to vote based on the idea that people are people and corporations are not.

I'm not sure who these college-educated, suburban women that voted for Trump are. But maybe that's because my view of college-educated doesn't count Liberty University, or the like.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

The people from Europe who made the crossing to the US, Cubans who floated here on rafts, the Okies who moved to California, Mexicans who walked across the desert and swam a river, none of them had the "money to move." You make the move because of that. You make the move because you are obviously not successful where you are, so you need to try to make it somewhere else.

Most of our European ancestors left because they were forced to (famine or religious persecution). The Oklahomans left because they would've starved during the Dust Bowl. In many cases, the places these people moved to didn't want them either and treated them like trash (Irish, Jews, "Okies", blacks, et al). Hell, half this country still thinks of Latinx and black people as inferior/lazy/moochers/whatever.

MT wouldn't feel like she must leave west Michigan if we as a country did what was right and her rights as a human were properly protected. Instead, half the country thinks that because the ancient fairytales of their invisible bearded sky autocrat say she's a freak, it's good for society to legally permit discrimination against her.

This is why I vehemently disagree with the, "If you hate America so much, then move to Europe/Cuba/Venezuela/wherever" belch of Limbaugh-ian pseudo-philosophy. You shouldn't have to move if you don't want to, and there shouldn't be a damn thing your ill-educated, bigoted, brainwashed neighbors can do about it, except not invite you to their shitty potlucks full of bland potato salad and whisper to others about you behind your back. If it offends their precious little snow globe worldview so much that they can't grit their teeth and do business with you, then THEY can move or else suffer the legal consequences.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Your statement sums up why I’m saying most of you don’t understand.

People like MissT and myself are not people leaving a desperate situation where either you stay and die or move and live. We’re working class people who have a sustainable situation but are worried about threats that, while we won’t die, will affect our lives.

Also, most of you are college educated folks with jobs in in demand fields like engineering. Jobs where the opportunity to move to a different city are frequent and money is not much of an issue. Flat out, that doesn’t happen for working class people.

Excellent post! It's easy to lean on the ol' bootstraps argument when you've never been in a situation where you're asking "can I find an apartment on just $XXX/month in a new city?" Few of us on the board have gone through that. I'm positive there are several who have, though. Like you said, the vast majority of us have portable skills in fields that pay well. We're also not shackled to union seniority benefits or tenure at a company. For many, tossing that 25+ years and promise of a pension would be akin to setting fire to our 401(k). The thought of that makes me nauseous.

Moving also means you're gutting your social safety net and would need to build a new one in the new location. What happens if you get laid off and need a place to live? You aren't going to be able to just immediately find a couch to sleep on. And the GOP has ensured anyone living in that situation is thoroughly f-cked. Even in most of the blue states the Democrats has mangled that as well.

If you (general you) are like me and never lived paycheck to paycheck, you'll never understand the energy and time spent carefully watching your expenses trying to figure out where you're going to make ends meet, or even if you'll be able to. I'd guess it's horrible beyond anything I can imagine. Couple that with being black, LGBTQ+, a refugee, etc. and it's certainly pure f-cking hell.

The idea that someone can 'just move' comes from a pretty high place of privilege in this society. Either that or you have literally nothing and all that moving means is finding transportation to a new city with the clothes on your back.

Jim's right. We don't understand. Never will.

Most of our European ancestors left because they were forced to (famine or religious persecution). The Oklahomans left because they would've starved during the Dust Bowl. In many cases, the places these people moved to didn't want them either and treated them like trash (Irish, Jews, "Okies", blacks, et al). Hell, half this country still thinks of Latinx and black people as inferior/lazy/moochers/whatever.

MT wouldn't feel like she must leave west Michigan if we as a country did what was right and her rights as a human were properly protected. Instead, half the country thinks that because the ancient fairytales of their invisible bearded sky autocrat say she's a freak, it's good for society to legally permit discrimination against her.

This is why I vehemently disagree with the, "If you hate America so much, then move to Europe/Cuba/Venezuela/wherever" belch of Limbaugh-ian pseudo-philosophy. You shouldn't have to move if you don't want to, and there shouldn't be a damn thing your ill-educated, bigoted, brainwashed neighbors can do about it, except not invite you to their shitty potlucks full of bland potato salad and whisper to others about you behind your back. If it offends their precious little snow globe worldview so much that they can't grit their teeth and do business with you, then THEY can move or else suffer the legal consequences.

Excellent post as well

 

[RaceBoarder]

It's not just moving to a better place that isn't an option... It's that being poor in general is expensive as hell comparatively speaking... It can very easily become a very unbreakable, vicious cycle....

For me it came in the form of needing to work basically two full time jobs to get by.... Basically it was 60-70 hour work weeks all the time... People would constantly say "Why don't you find another job that pays better?"

Obviously that person had no idea that nowadays you are probably looking at 60-120 minutes/each needed to fill out many modern job applications. And then be able to have time off from the current job(s) to go to your new job interview(s). When you are already working 6-7 days a week, time is not a very available commodity.

There are a ton of factors that pile on each other that I don't think many people seem to understand unless they are in these exact circumstances (Personally I hated being asked "how's life?" at family parties because no one seemed to understand how dire/unescapable I felt things were).

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

(Personally I hated being asked "how's life?" at family parties because no one seemed to understand how dire/unescapable I felt things were).

The three questions at family events that make you want to strangle the asker:

1. How's work?
2. Are you engaged/married yet?
3. When are you having kids?

 

[RaceBoarder]

The three questions at family events that make you want to strangle the asker:

1. How's work?
2. Are you engaged/married yet?
3. When are you having kids?

Agreed...

I love my family to death, but they were basically the proof I needed to realize that "OK Boomer" was a very real thing...

 

[SJHovey]

The three questions at family events that make you want to strangle the asker:

1. How's work?
2. Are you engaged/married yet?
3. When are you having kids?

What you need to do is come up with answers for each which will cause them to never ask you that question again.

For example:

Relative: "How's work."

Fade: "Ah, not so good. A couple of weeks ago I had a bad reaction to some medication I was taking and my left testicle swelled up to about the size of a grapefruit. Tuesday, I was in the mailroom at work and I hooked that sumbiatch on the corner of the copy machine as I walked by. Thought I was going to die. Couldn't get the bleeding to stop."

Relative: (slowly backs away)

 

[Jimjamesak]

Excellent post! It's easy to lean on the ol' bootstraps argument when you've never been in a situation where you're asking "can I find an apartment on just $XXX/month in a new city?" Few of us on the board have gone through that. I'm positive there are several who have, though. Like you said, the vast majority of us have portable skills in fields that pay well. We're also not shackled to union seniority benefits or tenure at a company. For many, tossing that 25+ years and promise of a pension would be akin to setting fire to our 401(k). The thought of that makes me nauseous.

Moving also means you're gutting your social safety net and would need to build a new one in the new location. What happens if you get laid off and need a place to live? You aren't going to be able to just immediately find a couch to sleep on. And the GOP has ensured anyone living in that situation is thoroughly f-cked. Even in most of the blue states the Democrats has mangled that as well.

If you (general you) are like me and never lived paycheck to paycheck, you'll never understand the energy and time spent carefully watching your expenses trying to figure out where you're going to make ends meet, or even if you'll be able to. I'd guess it's horrible beyond anything I can imagine. Couple that with being black, LGBTQ+, a refugee, etc. and it's certainly pure f-cking hell.

The idea that someone can 'just move' comes from a pretty high place of privilege in this society. Either that or you have literally nothing and all that moving means is finding transportation to a new city with the clothes on your back.

Jim's right. We don't understand. Never will.

My job has a huge glut of full time employees like myself: people in their mid to late 30s with 10-15 years at a union, seniority job. A few of us were talking about retirement, mostly because we have a good amount of people who are reaching retirement age, and realized that while we may have another 25-30 years until we retire, it's also very difficult to leave now. Like you said, even after only 10 years, leaving a job with seniority and a pension for something else is akin to lighting a 401(k) on fire. And that's not even discussing medical benefits and such.

 

[MissThundercat]

As for me, I moved to Wyoming, MI. It's still west Michigan. Still very Trumpy/conservative Christian. It's a more stable situation. But my social safety net is here; I'm no more than 30 miles from my close Mama Bears. My girlfriend is 15 minutes away. And those who do advocacy work and work with vulnerable populations, we don't make that much money. Being in grad school means I have even less money and will be in deep debt upon graduating. And the little bit of nest egg I had was wiped out when I got into a car accident in June.

 

[MissThundercat]

As for the idea the vulnerable can just wait for the Court to be expanded or whatever and everything will be just peachy:

Look outside. Read the news. I walk through downtown Grand Rapids, MI in the aftermath of a June 2020 riot, and I see the boarded up windows, murals, and the pop up artwork of a people who couldn't wait for an expanded Court. I see the huge Pride flags hanging on the downtown GR United Methodist church and a huge Black Lives Matter banner hanging from the same building. I see the Women's March, the kids with March for Our Lives, and I remember Stonewall. The first Pride was a riot.

 

[Kepler]

If R did hold the Senate maybe Roberts and Gorsuch will deliberately sink Dump. He's an embarrassment, they don't have to worry about us unpacking the courts, they know McConnell will do his little drag act again, and no progress means locking in the pro-Plute tax rates.

Even if PA was determinative, maybe they'll kill him.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Reporting on the ACA arguments are indicating that Roberts and Kavanuts (of all people) want to keep the ACA...