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Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Simply incredible what’s unfolding right now. If Prigozhin pulls this off, I don’t see how he lets Putin live. Putin wouldn’t let Prigozhin live if he stopped short of executing Putin during this insurrection.
However it all plays out, couldn’t have coincided better with Ukraine’s counteroffensive.
 
I get that Wagner was attacked, but that was very recent as you all point out. He’s rewinding the narrative 3 years. If he really believed that, why spend so much money in Ukraine in the first place???

To me, saying that this war wasn’t needed in the first place is more than just being attacked by his countrymen. But I don’t know what it means other than someone else needs to be running the country.
 
The choices are great. You can have an ineffective military dictator, or an effective military dictator (for hire?)! The sad thing is the Russian people will just accept the strongman that wins because that's their jam.
 
MichVandal said:
I get that Wagner was attacked, but that was very recent as you all point out. He’s rewinding the narrative 3 years. If he really believed that, why spend so much money in Ukraine in the first place???

To me, saying that this war wasn’t needed in the first place is more than just being attacked by his countrymen. But I don’t know what it means other than someone else needs to be running the country.
Click to expand...

The war in Ukraine was also a means to increase Prigozhin’s own power and influence within the Kremlin. Once Putin tried to subject his mercenary army under the MoD, Prigozhin saw the writing on the wall. He couldn’t care less the reasons for being in Ukraine. He speaks the truth not as some justice warrior, but as a means to get the Russian public on his side, now that he sees Putin is trying to snuff out his power/influence but subjecting his private army to the Russian MoD.
 
Now that Elon broke Twitter and you never know what sources are trustworthy, which accounts are providing the most accurate and breaking updates?
 
psych said:
The war in Ukraine was also a means to increase Prigozhin’s own power and influence within the Kremlin. Once Putin tried to subject his mercenary army under the MoD, Prigozhin saw the writing on the wall. He couldn’t care less the reasons for being in Ukraine. He speaks the truth not as some justice warrior, but as a means to get the Russian public on his side, now that he sees Putin is trying to snuff out his power/influence but subjecting his private army to the Russian MoD.
Click to expand...

But by putting so much very public effort into the war, Prigozhin has blown massive amounts of his personal capitol around the world. And by that, I mean both financial and political. Who knows how many billions he's blown through via the fighting, but the number of countries and companies willing to deal with him legally is approaching zero.

He could have personally prevented russia from going back decades in their economic process, but he didn't and also helped make it worse. So pretending that this didn't even need to happen comes across so incredibly hollow that it's pointless to even bring up. (as an alternative- lets say he publicly engaged Zelelnsky and made relations better- think of how he would have look in the eyes of the west.... instead, now it's about "regrets" which seem to be complete garbage)

If anything, Prigozhin comes across as dumber than vlad even.
 
cF[Authentic said:
;n3816883]Now that Elon broke Twitter and you never know what sources are trustworthy, which accounts are providing the most accurate and breaking updates?
Click to expand...

The average of a bunch of them put together. Just like when twitter was working. But they can be a source to say "what" and search more.
 
MichVandal said:
But by putting so much very public effort into the war, Prigozhin has blown massive amounts of his personal capitol around the world. And by that, I mean both financial and political. Who knows how many billions he's blown through via the fighting, but the number of countries and companies willing to deal with him legally is approaching zero.

He could have personally prevented russia from going back decades in their economic process, but he didn't and also helped make it worse. So pretending that this didn't even need to happen comes across so incredibly hollow that it's pointless to even bring up. (as an alternative- lets say he publicly engaged Zelelnsky and made relations better- think of how he would have look in the eyes of the west.... instead, now it's about "regrets" which seem to be complete garbage)

If anything, Prigozhin comes across as dumber than vlad even.
Click to expand...

He’s fine with the war. He’s not fine with losing power/influence. Everything he’s doing now is to regain power and influence. He may very well be dumber than Putin, as he’s clearly crossed the Rubicon at this point with very little internal support from the Russian military.
 
psych said:
Simply incredible what’s unfolding right now. If Prigozhin pulls this off, I don’t see how he lets Putin live. Putin wouldn’t let Prigozhin live if he stopped short of executing Putin during this insurrection.
However it all plays out, couldn’t have coincided better with Ukraine’s counteroffensive.
Click to expand...

Maybe this was Ukraine's planned counteroffensive... :-)
 
MichVandal said:
But by putting so much very public effort into the war, Prigozhin has blown massive amounts of his personal capitol around the world. And by that, I mean both financial and political. Who knows how many billions he's blown through via the fighting, but the number of countries and companies willing to deal with him legally is approaching zero.

He could have personally prevented russia from going back decades in their economic process, but he didn't and also helped make it worse. So pretending that this didn't even need to happen comes across so incredibly hollow that it's pointless to even bring up. (as an alternative- lets say he publicly engaged Zelelnsky and made relations better- think of how he would have look in the eyes of the west.... instead, now it's about "regrets" which seem to be complete garbage)

If anything, Prigozhin comes across as dumber than vlad even.
Click to expand...

Yeah based on what experts are saying none of this is true. He is a mercenary, not a politician, anyone that hires him knows what they get. And he has access to like a half billion in gold and diamonds yearly out of Africa. He is fine.

Mercenaries don't take kindly to being cannon fodder, especially in a losing effort. He loses more face being the front lines of a disaster of a war (which he has been saying this is for months and the world knows it anyways) than he does turning on the people who are willfully killing his men.

(BTW I doubt the Russian Military actually attacked him, because Putin would not have abided that. He needs Wagner or he is done)
 
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cF[Authentic said:
;n3816883]Now that Elon broke Twitter and you never know what sources are trustworthy, which accounts are providing the most accurate and breaking updates?
Click to expand...

Julia Davis is good...she watches Russian State TV and other sources and translates them.

Alexander Vindman (yes that one) has been pretty solid. He seems to get his sources from a few people on the ground there that also tweet about it. (including someone in Rostov who got the video of Wagner walking in like Hitler in Pohland)

Otherwise, yeah just read a bunch of the "top" tweets and the comments average it out. Take special note of all the Blue Checkmarks out there who are denying everything especially tech bros (and their fanbrahs) and Putin fellators like Glenn Greenwald.
 
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Handyman said:
Julia Davis is good...she watches Russian State TV and other sources and translates them.

Alexander Vindman (yes that one) has been pretty solid. He seems to get his sources from a few people on the ground there that also tweet about it. (including someone in Rostov who got the video of Wagner walking in like Hitler in Pohland)

Otherwise, yeah just read a bunch of the "top" tweets and the comments average it out. Take special note of all the Blue Checkmarks out there who are denying everything especially tech bros (and their fanbrahs) and Putin fellators like Glenn Greenwald.
Click to expand...

Rob Lee, ISW, Oryx (until October)
 
Anyone who's played Civ 5 knows that if your happiness drops below -20, you'll begin spawning insurgents. Sloppy play by Vlad.
 
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