RPI 2024 Off-Season: Was 2023 – 2024 Just a Bad Dream?

[rpi82]

Kirk wanted the job. Huge whiff by Bowers and Marty. But hey we got Dave. Turn out the lights.

It's a dog eat dog world out there, but I would hope that Kirk is not the type to have pitched himself for a job that wasn't open. If, in due course, the job does become open I'm sure he'll be given consideration. In the meantime the lights will stay on and I'll be rooting for the team we put on the ice.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Today is 20 June 2024. There are 107 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 5 October 2024 for the start of next season.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Kirk MacDonald announced as the new head coach of the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins (AHL):

https://dubuquefightingsaints.com/news/2024/6/19/mens-ice-hockey-macdonald-departs-dubuque-to-lead-wilkes-barre-scranton-penguins.aspx

So that's that.

Congrats to Kirk for a great opportunity with a great organization. The Dubuque coaching tree continues to bear fruit ! LOL

It says a lot that they tapped him for the post -- he's a great coach and a better guy!

 

[ServinisScores]

It's a dog eat dog world out there, but I would hope that Kirk is not the type to have pitched himself for a job that wasn't open. If, in due course, the job does become open I'm sure he'll be given consideration. In the meantime the lights will stay on and I'll be rooting for the team we put on the ice.

Also, on what planet would we all have to reside to think of an AHL team calling Kirk, assuming he's under RPI's employ, and him staying in Troy? Are we positive he was never contacted for/offered the RPI job?

I would reason a guess that if he's seen Seth move up the coaching ranks, he could certainly do the same.

 

[rpi82]

Also, on what planet would we all have to reside to think of an AHL team calling Kirk, assuming he's under RPI's employ, and him staying in Troy? Are we positive he was never contacted for/offered the RPI job?

I would reason a guess that if he's seen Seth move up the coaching ranks, he could certainly do the same.

I wish Kirk well and I hope this job takes him wherever he wants to go. However, I think people are tremendously over estimating the prestige and career potential of being an AHL head coach. It's a highly transient position with the current longest tenured coach being about 5 years. Kirk's WBS franchise has had at least 8 head coaches in the last 20 years. Of the 32 teams in the AHL, at least 23 are going into the upcoming season with a coach that's been in place 2 years or less. Only a small fraction of AHL head coaches ever advance to NHL head coach (I'd bet it's less than 10%). Most end up as ACs, scouts, lower level front office positions or even college coach. I can think of a few college coaches that were AHL head coaches, Mark Morris, Greg Cronin (before Northeastern he coached here in Bridgeport) and Chuck Weber (admittedly he's only an AC and his case appeared to involve a need to return home). Many more AHL and even NHL ACs have become D1 head coaches, such as Reid Cashman, Greg Carvel, David Quinn (before going back to pros), Greg Brown, Jay Pandolfo, Keith Allain, etc. Virtually no one has minor league coach, or even NHL AC, as a career goal. If a coach can get into the revolving carousel that is the pool of NHL head coaches (it seems they are barely fired by one team before they are hired by another) then they are pretty well set, but for those outside the chosen a college position may be a better choice.

 

[DrDemento]

I wish Kirk well and I hope this job takes him wherever he wants to go. However, I think people are tremendously over estimating the prestige and career potential of being an AHL head coach. It's a highly transient position with the current longest tenured coach being about 5 years. Kirk's WBS franchise has had at least 8 head coaches in the last 20 years. Of the 32 teams in the AHL, at least 23 are going into the upcoming season with a coach that's been in place 2 years or less. Only a small fraction of AHL head coaches ever advance to NHL head coach (I'd bet it's less than 10%). Most end up as ACs, scouts, lower level front office positions or even college coach. I can think of a few college coaches that were AHL head coaches, Mark Morris, Greg Cronin (before Northeastern he coached here in Bridgeport) and Chuck Weber (admittedly he's only an AC and his case appeared to involve a need to return home). Many more AHL and even NHL ACs have become D1 head coaches, such as Reid Cashman, Greg Carvel, David Quinn (before going back to pros), Greg Brown, Jay Pandolfo, Keith Allain, etc. Virtually no one has minor league coach, or even NHL AC, as a career goal. If a coach can get into the revolving carousel that is the pool of NHL head coaches (it seems they are barely fired by one team before they are hired by another) then they are pretty well set, but for those outside the chosen a college position may be a better choice.

Agree with everything you posted. The NHL is, in many ways, an old boy network. Coaches and assistants get recycled and only a very few openings allow for new blood to enter.

 

[ServinisScores]

I wish Kirk well and I hope this job takes him wherever he wants to go. However, I think people are tremendously over estimating the prestige and career potential of being an AHL head coach. It's a highly transient position with the current longest tenured coach being about 5 years. Kirk's WBS franchise has had at least 8 head coaches in the last 20 years. Of the 32 teams in the AHL, at least 23 are going into the upcoming season with a coach that's been in place 2 years or less. Only a small fraction of AHL head coaches ever advance to NHL head coach (I'd bet it's less than 10%). Most end up as ACs, scouts, lower level front office positions or even college coach. I can think of a few college coaches that were AHL head coaches, Mark Morris, Greg Cronin (before Northeastern he coached here in Bridgeport) and Chuck Weber (admittedly he's only an AC and his case appeared to involve a need to return home). Many more AHL and even NHL ACs have become D1 head coaches, such as Reid Cashman, Greg Carvel, David Quinn (before going back to pros), Greg Brown, Jay Pandolfo, Keith Allain, etc. Virtually no one has minor league coach, or even NHL AC, as a career goal. If a coach can get into the revolving carousel that is the pool of NHL head coaches (it seems they are barely fired by one team before they are hired by another) then they are pretty well set, but for those outside the chosen a college position may be a better choice.

I mostly disagree, my esteemed friend. Greg Cronin is a head coach in the NHL, with Anaheim. David Quinn made it to the pros as well. You can argue, quite reasonably, they are/were in over the head - watch DQ's classic f-bomb rant on YouTube when he coached San Jose. I think it's a great opportunity to take, while young, and parlay into an on-the-job interview for the big leagues. If it works, great. If it doesn't work, you can retreat to D1, saying you tried.

 

[Waite21]

I wish Kirk well and I hope this job takes him wherever he wants to go. However, I think people are tremendously over estimating the prestige and career potential of being an AHL head coach. It's a highly transient position with the current longest tenured coach being about 5 years. Kirk's WBS franchise has had at least 8 head coaches in the last 20 years. Of the 32 teams in the AHL, at least 23 are going into the upcoming season with a coach that's been in place 2 years or less. Only a small fraction of AHL head coaches ever advance to NHL head coach (I'd bet it's less than 10%). Most end up as ACs, scouts, lower level front office positions or even college coach. I can think of a few college coaches that were AHL head coaches, Mark Morris, Greg Cronin (before Northeastern he coached here in Bridgeport) and Chuck Weber (admittedly he's only an AC and his case appeared to involve a need to return home). Many more AHL and even NHL ACs have become D1 head coaches, such as Reid Cashman, Greg Carvel, David Quinn (before going back to pros), Greg Brown, Jay Pandolfo, Keith Allain, etc. Virtually no one has minor league coach, or even NHL AC, as a career goal. If a coach can get into the revolving carousel that is the pool of NHL head coaches (it seems they are barely fired by one team before they are hired by another) then they are pretty well set, but for those outside the chosen a college position may be a better choice.

It may be true that only a small fraction of AHL head coaches ever advance to NHL head coach, but it seems that the odds might be a little better in the Pittsburgh organization.

Three of the last four Pittsburgh coaches (Michel Therrien, Dan Bylsma, and Mike Sullivan) were promoted directly from head coach in Wilkes-Barre to head coach in Pittsburgh.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Today is 21 June 2024. There are 106 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 5 October 2024 for the start of next season.

 

[Ralph Baer]

So it seems that college coaches stay longer than AHL coaches. Another question is how salaries compare.

 

[rpi82]

Today is 21 June 2024. There are 106 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 5 October 2024 for the start of next season.

True, although 2 out of 3 had previous NHL HC experience. 2 out of 3 were also promoted to Pittsburgh HC mid-season after having coached WBS for less than one year. It’s probably the oddest AHL to NHL coaching pattern of any organization. Who knows, with the halo from Sullivan’s two early championships wearing off maybe Kirk will similarly benefit. It would be a real long shot, however, as he has nothing like the NHL track records of all 3 predecessors you mentioned.

 

[rpi82]

So it seems that college coaches stay longer than AHL coaches. Another question is how salaries compare.

If I had to guess it’s less than the top college coaches make but more than RPI pays.

Edit: Interesting timing. Clarkson just named alum and AHL HC (Laval Rocket) JF Houle as their new coach.

 

[25+years]

I think we need to be realistic here. That RPi would get rid of Smith and hire someone like McDonald or Barr is a bit of a reach. The reality is Smith would have to be bought out. The coaches who are being suggested here (or others) would get paid more, I assume. So how much would that cost and then what would be left for upgrading the fieldhouse? Maybe new popcorn machines? I think that would work IF there was some other arrangement for the rink like is being done with Union.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

True, although 2 out of 3 had previous NHL HC experience. 2 out of 3 were also promoted to Pittsburgh HC mid-season after having coached WBS for less than one year. It’s probably the oddest AHL to NHL coaching pattern of any organization. Who knows, with the halo from Sullivan’s two early championships wearing off maybe Kirk will similarly benefit. It would be a real long shot, however, as he has nothing like the NHL track records of all 3 predecessors you mentioned.

That is historically true of the Pens, but Kyle Dubas is the new GM in Pittsburgh, so he will undoubtedly be putting his own stamp on how things are run. I don't think anyone thinks Kirk is ready for an NHL job, but the fact that he went from ECHL to AHL HC speaks a lot toward what hockey people think of his coaching ability.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

I wish Kirk well and I hope this job takes him wherever he wants to go. However, I think people are tremendously over estimating the prestige and career potential of being an AHL head coach. It's a highly transient position with the current longest tenured coach being about 5 years. Kirk's WBS franchise has had at least 8 head coaches in the last 20 years. Of the 32 teams in the AHL, at least 23 are going into the upcoming season with a coach that's been in place 2 years or less. Only a small fraction of AHL head coaches ever advance to NHL head coach (I'd bet it's less than 10%). Most end up as ACs, scouts, lower level front office positions or even college coach. I can think of a few college coaches that were AHL head coaches, Mark Morris, Greg Cronin (before Northeastern he coached here in Bridgeport) and Chuck Weber (admittedly he's only an AC and his case appeared to involve a need to return home). Many more AHL and even NHL ACs have become D1 head coaches, such as Reid Cashman, Greg Carvel, David Quinn (before going back to pros), Greg Brown, Jay Pandolfo, Keith Allain, etc. Virtually no one has minor league coach, or even NHL AC, as a career goal. If a coach can get into the revolving carousel that is the pool of NHL head coaches (it seems they are barely fired by one team before they are hired by another) then they are pretty well set, but for those outside the chosen a college position may be a better choice.

Those stats are true of nearly any professional sport. But if you're in the business of coaching, reaching for the next level IS your career goal. I for one don't make any assumptions that he's on an NHL tract. There isn't any reason he couldn't jump back over to D1 coaching....IF that is what he so chose. But it's irrefutable that being an integral piece of an NHL franchise's hockey operations can only help someone who is building his coaching skills and career experience. He will grow by leaps and bounds in every facet of his coaching abilities.

 

[rpi82]

Those stats are true of nearly any professional sport. But if you're in the business of coaching, reaching for the next level IS your career goal. I for one don't make any assumptions that he's on an NHL tract. There isn't any reason he couldn't jump back over to D1 coaching....IF that is what he so chose. But it's irrefutable that being an integral piece of an NHL franchise's hockey operations can only help someone who is building his coaching skills and career experience. He will grow by leaps and bounds in every facet of his coaching abilities.

I agree completely with every thing you said. This is an important step for him - going from ECHL/juniors to a higher professional level. I was just dealing with the perception of some, as we also saw when Seth got the job in Rochester, that this is somehow a leaping over the collegiate level (and an opportunity to take the obligatory shot at RPI for having missed on a superior talent). I would argue AHL head coach is roughly comparable to D1 HC in terms of achievement. Most coaches are either on a professional track or an amateur track (juniors and college), but it's certainly possible to go from one to the other, even as a head coach (as we just saw for JF Houle and the rumor is that the NMU coach is going the other way to the Rangers' farm club in Hartford). If it turns out that we do have an opening in the next year or two and Kirk is still in WBS (as I would expect given his lack of NHL experience), I can certainly see him being a candidate in Troy. Our prior 2 head coaches averaged 11.5 years on the job and our current coach is heading into year 8. That's a level of stability that doesn't exist in minor league hockey.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Interesting news given our current conversation..... Clarkson has hired former player/alum JF Houle as their new HC. Houle spent the last three seasons as HC of the Laval Rocket (AHL). So if my math is correct, Kirk will have three AHL years under his belt when Smith's current deal expires... LOL. KIDDING...sorta.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Today is 22 June 2024. There are 105 days (15 weeks) until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 5 October 2024 for the start of next season.

 

[AspyDad]

It's a dog eat dog world out there, but I would hope that Kirk is not the type to have pitched himself for a job that wasn't open. If, in due course, the job does become open I'm sure he'll be given consideration. In the meantime the lights will stay on and I'll be rooting for the team we put on the ice.

So here's how it works... or should. Let's say I'm the AD of an ECAC Team that finished dead last in the league and then let's say purely for argument's sake that a former alum was the HC of a team that is known to produce good coaches in a league that produces good college and pro coaches. If I'm that AD, I might want to pursue him especially when the current coach has a .374 winning % . Looking forward to your response that Mac coaching prowess might not have translated to RPI.

 

[Ralph Baer]

So here's how it works... or should. Let's say I'm the AD of an ECAC Team that finished dead last in the league and then let's say purely for argument's sake that a former alum was the HC of a team that is known to produce good coaches in a league that produces good college and pro coaches. If I'm that AD, I might want to pursue him especially when the current coach has a .374 winning % . Looking forward to your response that Mac coaching prowess might not have translated to RPI.

If someone is a "former alum", I would have nothing to do with him as it indicates that he broke ties with the school.