RPI 2024 Off-Season: Was 2023 – 2024 Just a Bad Dream?

[Ralph Baer]

Today is 24 May 2024. There are 134 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 5 October 2024 for the start of next season.

 

[fr. joe]

One of my colleagues - but not a close friend - used to sit right behind the team. I assumed he was the team dentist but have never been sure of that. I have a bit of respect for dentists. It is a hard job. I brush and floss a dentist on a regular basis. I shave him every morning too.

Goalies appreciate dentists, too.

 

[joecct]

The Power 5 settlement with the NCAA probably killed our D1 hockey programs. It's going to be unaffordable to field a nationally competitive D1 program once the P5s start paying their players.

OTOH, Liberty League hockey will be a powerhouse conference.

 

[jstadts]

The Power 5 settlement with the NCAA probably killed our D1 hockey programs. It's going to be unaffordable to field a nationally competitive D1 program once the P5s start paying their players.

OTOH, Liberty League hockey will be a powerhouse conference.

I fear you are 100% correct. Just spit balling but maybe some type of new Eastern conference with the old split east/west designation within the conference with a no pay agreement.

 

[jstadts]

Maybe one silver lining. The guys that can`t make it in MJ will stay in school as they know their limitations?

 

[rpi82]

The Power 5 settlement with the NCAA probably killed our D1 hockey programs. It's going to be unaffordable to field a nationally competitive D1 program once the P5s start paying their players.

OTOH, Liberty League hockey will be a powerhouse conference.

Frankly, that was my immediate reaction too. It will not just be the D3 play-ups, but also smaller to mid-range D1 schools across all sports. How does Siena stay D1 in hoops? How does Merrimack stay in HE? Why would Albany be D1 given the costs versus the benefits? Hell, here in CT I really wonder about UConn, which has won titles in a number of sports but really only generated proportional benefits in two - men's and women's BB. I think the first impact we may see at RPI has to do with the Field House study. Should the school put $50M-$100M into a major renovation or a new rink given the uncertainty this presents? I don't think we'll see the total destruction of traditional D1 hockey immediately, but it's going to play out over a much smaller window than the payoff period for that investment (probably pretty clear impact in less than a decade).

 

[ServinisScores]

The Power 5 settlement with the NCAA probably killed our D1 hockey programs. It's going to be unaffordable to field a nationally competitive D1 program once the P5s start paying their players.

OTOH, Liberty League hockey will be a powerhouse conference.

I’ve been wondering (silently) if this while the Institute has been slow to invest in the HFH/ program. What is point if P5 schools have the ability to revenue & pay players. Many of these schools have club/ACHA programs.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Today is 25 May 2024. There are 133 days (19 weeks) until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 5 October 2024 for the start of next season.

 

[troyboy]

Frankly, that was my immediate reaction too. It will not just be the D3 play-ups, but also smaller to mid-range D1 schools across all sports. How does Siena stay D1 in hoops? How does Merrimack stay in HE? Why would Albany be D1 given the costs versus the benefits? Hell, here in CT I really wonder about UConn, which has won titles in a number of sports but really only generated proportional benefits in two - men's and women's BB. I think the first impact we may see at RPI has to do with the Field House study. Should the school put $50M-$100M into a major renovation or a new rink given the uncertainty this presents? I don't think we'll see the total destruction of traditional D1 hockey immediately, but it's going to play out over a much smaller window than the payoff period for that investment (probably pretty clear impact in less than a decade).

There is a gazillionaire named Weitsman he is a scrap metal dealer from the Syracuse area with an operation in the Port of Albany he was the NIL benefactor for SU Hoops to the tune of millions of $$$ to pay players when Boeheim retired he did to. He has recently went on record saying if Gerry McNamera called he would certainly take his call. Thats why on many levels that was such a great hire and I'm sure they had to stretch to do it but they figured a way something evidently we don't have the savvy or experience to figure out !

 

[Ralph Baer]

Today is 26 May 2024. There are 132 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 5 October 2024 for the start of next season.

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

I don't know the rules for P5, but where is this money supposed to come from?
Looking at the ECAC, I don't see a school that generates enough money to pay hockey players.
The Ivies might, but I don't see them paying for athletes.
And HE is not far behind. BC can generate funds from its football team, but is that enough to pay players in any other sports.
Most hockey programs are in the same boat. As far as I can see, only the Big Ten has schools that can pay for it.
So how is this going to work? If only a few programs can afford to pay athletes, where does that leave college hockey in general?

 

[rpi82]

There is a gazillionaire named Weitsman he is a scrap metal dealer from the Syracuse area with an operation in the Port of Albany he was the NIL benefactor for SU Hoops to the tune of millions of $$$ to pay players when Boeheim retired he did to. He has recently went on record saying if Gerry McNamera called he would certainly take his call. Thats why on many levels that was such a great hire and I'm sure they had to stretch to do it but they figured a way something evidently we don't have the savvy or experience to figure out !

IIRC that's the guy with the questionable past that got off on bringing sports and broadcast celebrities like Tom Brady, Odell Beckham, Jimmy Fallon, etc. to the bigger games (UNC, Duke, etc.) at the Dome. I wonder who he will be able to get for the Siena-Mt. St. Mary's game in Albany. Even if he does "take Gerry's call" (presumably because he's one of Jimmy's boys), what happens when Gerry rebuilds the team with a few purchased players then skips town for a bigger gig? It's hard to envision a long-term path to success for a school like Siena in an increasingly professional college BB system.

The concern for us is how far it might penetrate college hockey. P5 schools make up a very small percentage of hockey programs (Big 10 teams, ND, BC and ASU come to mind - any others?). They really can't have a viable college hockey system without the non-P5 schools, but how unbalanced can it get and which schools can or will invest to keep up?

Edit: I see engineerhockeyfan beat me with many of the same points.

 

[CornellFan13]

I agree with the above two posts. It’s almost impossible to see any ECAC school paying its athletes anything of significance. The Ivies never would even if they could afford it, and the rest of the ECAC almost certainly cannot afford it. The only school who might entertain such an idea is Quinnipiac, but without big time football there is no possible way their athletics department is materially in the black. I’m not even sure ECAC schools (the ones who grant scholarships) would be able to afford increasing the number of scholarships per team now that the 18-scholarship limit has gone away.

As somebody above said, the Big 10 teams, BC, and ASU are the D-1 hockey schools who earn big football money. I guess you can throw in North Dakota, who from what I can tell is one of the only (if not THE only) school whose hockey program doesn’t lose money or break even (actually, I think Cornell hockey earns a modest profit too). But will these schools pay their hockey players? That remains to be seen. To stay competitive in football and basketball, these schools will be forced to spend the majority, probably a vast majority, of money on those sports. North Dakota doesn’t have these concerns as a mid-major in football and basketball, but they also have no significant football or basketball revenue, meaning they have very little money to pass around in the first place.

All this is to say, I’d be surprised if the settlement greatly affects college hockey, other than having downstream effects like opening the door to CHL players becoming college eligible.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Today is 27 May 2024. There are 131 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 5 October 2024 for the start of next season.

 

[troyboy]

IIRC that's the guy with the questionable past that got off on bringing sports and broadcast celebrities like Tom Brady, Odell Beckham, Jimmy Fallon, etc. to the bigger games (UNC, Duke, etc.) at the Dome. I wonder who he will be able to get for the Siena-Mt. St. Mary's game in Albany. Even if he does "take Gerry's call" (presumably because he's one of Jimmy's boys), what happens when Gerry rebuilds the team with a few purchased players then skips town for a bigger gig? It's hard to envision a long-term path to success for a school like Siena in an increasingly professional college BB system.

The concern for us is how far it might penetrate college hockey. P5 schools make up a very small percentage of hockey programs (Big 10 teams, ND, BC and ASU come to mind - any others?). They really can't have a viable college hockey system without the non-P5 schools, but how unbalanced can it get and which schools can or will invest to keep up?

Edit: I see engineerhockeyfan beat me with many of the same points.

So he shouldn't call Weitsman to explore the possibility of seeding a collective that Alumni can funnel money into and create a long term fund to assist he and future coaches to be competitive in recruiting battles within their conference I'm not talking Zion Williamson here just winning recruiting battles against the top level mid major programs and bringing in players that can put you at the top of the standings on a consistent basis . When is the last time we won a recruiting battle against Cornell or Quinnipiac or Harvard or even recruited those players I believe with the right Administration and the right Coaching staff and Alumni willing to shake the money tree a little that is doable. If the admin can't figure that out I guess I'll conceed that that the status quo is a go and we can pick the portal clean as best we can and cross our fingers and hope for 8th place.

 

[rpi82]

So he shouldn't call Weitsman to explore the possibility of seeding a collective that Alumni can funnel money into and create a long term fund to assist he and future coaches to be competitive in recruiting battles within their conference I'm not talking Zion Williamson here just winning recruiting battles against the top level mid major programs and bringing in players that can put you at the top of the standings on a consistent basis . When is the last time we won a recruiting battle against Cornell or Quinnipiac or Harvard or even recruited those players I believe with the right Administration and the right Coaching staff and Alumni willing to shake the money tree a little that is doable. If the admin can't figure that out I guess I'll conceed that that the status quo is a go and we can pick the portal clean as best we can and cross our fingers and hope for 8th place.

The ECAC schools are going to have to decide how much they want to be in the pay for play game. For that matter, HE and AH schools have to make similar decisions. Athletic operating budgets are already a money sink at all but a handful of schools. To make matters worse, compared to other highly regarded academic institutions RPI is not a wealthy school (endowment less than $120K per undergrad). Marty appears to be a supporter of athletics but he also has to walk a fine line between how much fundraising focus is there versus school endowment and academic support. Fundraising to pay players and allocating resources to court NIL sponsors - resulting in increased effective athletic budgets when some of that money might have been donated for other school priorities - might be the final straw. It will only become more of a challenge given the financial headwinds facing private schools outside a small group at the top with virtually unlimited financial resources.

Of course I could be completely wrong about athletic spending. For the life of me I haven't been able to figure out why schools like LIU, Stonehill, etc. have added the increased cost of D1 hockey, especially given their use of off campus rinks that won't add anything to the college experience of students beyond those on the playing roster. Perhaps there is an economic model that I don't understand.

As for Weitsman, I'd be concerned about a guy that seems to like the focus on himself and now says he isn't funding SU athletes because the school doesn't want him any more. I'm not sure whether that means they actually asked him to leave or they just didn't cater enough to his ego. Either way I can't see that guy funding a long-term program at little old Siena because he won't be around to bask in it when his guy Gerry moves on.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Today is 28 May 2024. There are 130 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 5 October 2024 for the start of next season.

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

One more problem with P5 is title 9.
Any money spent on men's teams must also go to women's teams.
I am in favor of title 9, I am just pointing out the financial situation

 

[fr. joe]

One more problem with P5 is title 9.
Any money spent on men's teams must also go to women's teams.
I am in favor of title 9, I am just pointing out the financial situation

Yes.
To whom much is given, much is expected. ?!

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

The ECAC schools are going to have to decide how much they want to be in the pay for play game. For that matter, HE and AH schools have to make similar decisions. Athletic operating budgets are already a money sink at all but a handful of schools. To make matters worse, compared to other highly regarded academic institutions RPI is not a wealthy school (endowment less than $120K per undergrad). Marty appears to be a supporter of athletics but he also has to walk a fine line between how much fundraising focus is there versus school endowment and academic support. Fundraising to pay players and allocating resources to court NIL sponsors - resulting in increased effective athletic budgets when some of that money might have been donated for other school priorities - might be the final straw. It will only become more of a challenge given the financial headwinds facing private schools outside a small group at the top with virtually unlimited financial resources.

Of course I could be completely wrong about athletic spending. For the life of me I haven't been able to figure out why schools like LIU, Stonehill, etc. have added the increased cost of D1 hockey, especially given their use of off campus rinks that won't add anything to the college experience of students beyond those on the playing roster. Perhaps there is an economic model that I don't understand.

As for Weitsman, I'd be concerned about a guy that seems to like the focus on himself and now says he isn't funding SU athletes because the school doesn't want him any more. I'm not sure whether that means they actually asked him to leave or they just didn't cater enough to his ego. Either way I can't see that guy funding a long-term program at little old Siena because he won't be around to bask in it when his guy Gerry moves on.

The Weitsman/ SU marriage was always tenuous at best, with all of those factors baked in... add in that SU has a storied, yet oft-forgotten history of violations and vacated wins/championships (Boeheim/BB, MLAX). It was the earlier more Wilder West days of the NIL and the SU admin. clearly was uncomfortable with Weitsman's flare for publicity.