RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

[Red Cloud]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

I think you are at least a year too soon with this. Many good teams and coaches have off years.

Sometimes they pop up at the oddest times, too. The whole Fire Timmy movement started at a time when he'd taken Maine to four Frozen Fours in his first six years.

Not that this isn't an off year or anything, but... yeah.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

While I hate to see coaches let go, it is time to examine the record of our current man at the helm. After upgrading salaries, facilities, and overall program expenditures it appears that our investement has lost stock in the world of college hockey. Once again we are in the bottom(currently THE bottom)portion of a league that has less than 1/2 of the teams offering grant -in aids. This should not be happening! Sure there have been a few players that have jumped to pros, but I do not feel that is a viable excuse for our current plight. It certainly hasn't helped the cause, but it happens to programs all over, and they maintain. Why can't we? RPI has opened the checkbook, and eased admissions somewhat, and we win about a third of our games in the past 5 1/2 years. We were better off before spending less and winning more. How many years is the school going to pour money down the drain? Basically I am asking if it is time for a new direction, or is everyone happy setting school loss records?

There's one other thing our program has, and that's the opportunity to learn from another program that has recently endured a similar "new direction". If you don't know which program I'm talking about, pay attention to the crowd at 19:00 of each period of each RPI home game. Obviously this year is the first year of the "new direction", but the upcoming years will be telling, as this is where we have had the slump you describe. As always, our programs are different, so different results have the possibility to occur.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Isn't it the case that, if the other team knows what you are going to do and has a counter for it, either you have to adjust to what they are doing by trying something else, or execute so well that their counter is ineffective?

In other words, to quote DrD, if Plan A isn't working wouldn't you also want a Plan B too?

There is nothing wrong in my view to utilize dump and chase for parts of the game depending on the matchups and on the situation. To bolster that view, did we not discuss on this thread that, to break the 1-3-1 trap, a high lofted puck might be effective, sort of like a punt in football that pins the other team back on their five-yard line? Rather than a straightforward "dump and chase", a "loft and chase" gives your players more time to race down ice while also confusing the other team, since they cannot see where the puck is if they are watching our players and they cannot see our players if they are watching the puck?

Given how some of the other teams seem to be defending us, I would not mind a "loft and chase" strategy at all, at least to break up the flow of a game that too often keeps us hemmed in and frustrated.

Plan C and Plan D would also help.

 

[redhead18]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

The administration must be happy in the direction the program is going considering they just signed the coach to a new seven year contract back in March...

I wish I could be as optimistic as some other posters about next season but I just dont see a significant improvement coming like we're seeing with Colgate this year. Looking quick at what other schools are losing to graduation and gaining with incoming recruits, my feeling is RPI will be in the bottom half of the standings again battling it out for home ice in the first round. (I really hope im wrong!)

 

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

The administration must be happy in the direction the program is going considering they just signed the coach to a new seven year contract back in March...

I wish I could be as optimistic as some other posters about next season but I just dont see a significant improvement coming like we're seeing with Colgate this year. Looking quick at what other schools are losing to graduation and gaining with incoming recruits, my feeling is RPI will be in the bottom half of the standings again battling it out for home ice in the first round. (I really hope im wrong!)

It seems to me we have plenty of talent from the 2011-2012 recruit year, the problem is getting that talent to be playing as a team instead of five individuals still trying to find their way. Without blaming or finding fault, merely by observing, it appears that a confluence of factors hit at the same time this year, and we already have seen adjustments to some of those factors that already are producing results.

 

[Big Jim]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

I wish I could be as optimistic as some other posters about next season but I just dont see a significant improvement coming like we're seeing with Colgate this year. Looking quick at what other schools are losing to graduation and gaining with incoming recruits, my feeling is RPI will be in the bottom half of the standings again battling it out for home ice in the first round. (I really hope im wrong!)

I agree with redhead, I have a feeling next year (2012/2013) we will be still looking at the bottom half of our league (which would be improvement over this year) and still saying wait until next year (2013/2014) etc etc citing some reason or another and on and on it goes. We would need to have an amazing freshman class next year that could impact games immeadiately for us to be much better, next years senior class won't offer much offense and aside from Higgs neither will the junior class. I also really hope I am wrong and things just need to fall into place...however who would have thought when SA came to RPI that 6 years later we would be holding down last place.

 

[hockeymascot]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Without blaming or finding fault, merely by observing, it appears that a confluence of factors hit at the same time this year, and we already have seen adjustments to some of those factors that already are producing results.

....ya.....Stevie Wonder sees those producing factors too!

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

I agree with redhead, I have a feeling next year (2012/2013) we will be still looking at the bottom half of our league (which would be improvement over this year) and still saying wait until next year (2013/2014) etc etc citing some reason or another and on and on it goes. We would need to have an amazing freshman class next year that could impact games immeadiately for us to be much better, next years senior class won't offer much offense and aside from Higgs neither will the junior class. I also really hope I am wrong and things just need to fall into place...however who would have thought when SA came to RPI that 6 years later we would be holding down last place.

In a league of 12 teams, someone has to be 12th.

 

[brokenblade]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

A year early? I think was time for review 2 season's ago. 2 winning records in the last 5 (soon to be 6 years), with one of them being by a game. We could have done that well without upping the ante. Hell, Fridgen got the axe after what would be considered a good season for the current coach. After 6 seasons, if things go much better than anticipated for the remainder of the year, we will have achieved 80 wins. As for winning %, there hasn't been a six year span this bad in the entire history of the program. Why hasn't there been at least a question about the team's performance over that period of time. I think after 6 seasons winning about 1/3 of your games should bring a examination of the program. That's all!

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

A year early? I think was time for review 2 season's ago. 2 winning records in the last 5 (soon to be 6 years), with one of them being by a game. We could have done that well without upping the ante. Hell, Fridgen got the axe after what would be considered a good season for the current coach. After 6 seasons, if things go much better than anticipated for the remainder of the year, we will have achieved 80 wins. As for winning %, there hasn't been a six year span this bad in the entire history of the program. Why hasn't there been at least a question about the team's performance over that period of time. I think after 6 seasons winning about 1/3 of your games should bring a examination of the program. That's all!

Where do you expect us to be at this point?

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Isn't it the case that, if the other team knows what you are going to do and has a counter for it, either you have to adjust to what they are doing by trying something else, or execute so well that their counter is ineffective?

In other words, to quote DrD, if Plan A isn't working wouldn't you also want a Plan B too?

There is nothing wrong in my view to utilize dump and chase for parts of the game depending on the matchups and on the situation. To bolster that view, did we not discuss on this thread that, to break the 1-3-1 trap, a high lofted puck might be effective, sort of like a punt in football that pins the other team back on their five-yard line? Rather than a straightforward "dump and chase", a "loft and chase" gives your players more time to race down ice while also confusing the other team, since they cannot see where the puck is if they are watching our players and they cannot see our players if they are watching the puck?

Given how some of the other teams seem to be defending us, I would not mind a "loft and chase" strategy at all, at least to break up the flow of a game that too often keeps us hemmed in and frustrated.

Thanks for the brief plug. I have suggested that philosophy for everything from hockey to education to gosh knows what. If plan A is failing repeatedly-only a moron sticks to it and keeps going with plan A. I have the utmost respect for those coaches at all levels, college, pro whatever-who can somehow make the adaptations needed between games, between periods, during a period. It all comes down to being the person who is willing to do what is necessary-whatever is necessary-to win in sports and in life. One of the most frustrating thins is watching and listening to this year's RPI hockey team-I honestly feel that much of the time our 6 players on the ice are as good as any opposing line up out there. Perhaps not evry shift, perhaps not for all 60 minutes. But these kids have the skill and talent-more than many of the RPI teams i have followed since 1963. I refuse to believe that sooner or later we are going to put some things together, make some strategic decisions and changes, and beat the dickens out of a few teams.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Considering what Brown and Colgate have done in similar positions recently, I say BRING. IT. ON! Put the kid in net, the BRO in front of the net, and 5 forwards...

(Yes, I've been drinking a lil bit...)

Welcome home WS! Were you serving 5-10 in the big house or something? Glad you are back.

 

[redhead18]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Where do you expect us to be at this point?

I thought at least finishing in the top half of the league standings on a consistent basis... Yale doesnt seem to have a problem doing that and Allain took over a program (the same year as SA) that won just 5 games two years prior to his hiring. Whats so different at Yale than at RPI?

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

The administration must be happy in the direction the program is going considering they just signed the coach to a new seven year contract back in March...

I wish I could be as optimistic as some other posters about next season but I just dont see a significant improvement coming like we're seeing with Colgate this year. Looking quick at what other schools are losing to graduation and gaining with incoming recruits, my feeling is RPI will be in the bottom half of the standings again battling it out for home ice in the first round. (I really hope im wrong!)

IMHO, we are losing very little offensively after this season. If Bubela comes in (apparently depends upon clearing house) in addition to Bourbonnais and Zalewski, there is a considerable net gain. Not counting production from freshmen, but assuming an increase by returning players, there is still a consiederable net gain.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

I thought at least finishing in the top half of the league standings on a consistent basis... Yale doesnt seem to have a problem doing that and Allain took over a program (the same year as SA) that won just 5 games two years prior to his hiring. Whats so different at Yale than at RPI?

Yale is a lock.

Of course, so is Diebold.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

@ HockeyMascot:

Samuel Clemens called. He asked for you and I told him you weren't around right now. He asked me to give you a message.

He said: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

I told him I'd pass it along. Hope you find it helpful.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

IMHO, we are losing very little offensively after this season. If Bubela comes in (apparently depends upon clearing house) in addition to Bourbonnais and Zalewski, there is a considerable net gain. Not counting production from freshmen, but assuming an increase by returning players, there is still a consiederable net gain.

Yup-and add a year of maturation for the younger defensemen and a very decent group of goaltenders. Now it just remains to figure out what style of play to make best use of the talent that will be there.

 

[johnk]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

IMHO, we are losing very little offensively after this season. If Bubela comes in (apparently depends upon clearing house) in addition to Bourbonnais and Zalewski, there is a considerable net gain. Not counting production from freshmen, but assuming an increase by returning players, there is still a consiederable net gain.

Love the optimism but on paper this class is not going to be getting that high of accolades. Now if there is chemistry and solid team play then we can look at things a little differently. Facts are that the talent gap from the top of the ECAC to the bottom is not that different. What worries me is what is being done with that talent right now. RPI is not that tough of an opponent to prepare for at this time and that starts from top. For those putting blame on the players, it cant be all of them. And if there are some not performing up to standards, there are others sitting in the stands waiting to get a chance. We will see if this team peaks and makes a little run at the right time this year. If they do not, I would think next year is a very crucial one for Coach Appert.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

I would think next year is a very crucial one for Coach Appert.

Bill Belicheck did not exactly have the greatest results in his first stint as a head coach....During his tenure in Cleveland (1991 - 1995) he compiled a 36–44 record, leading the team to the playoffs in 1994. In Belichick's last season in Cleveland the Browns finished 5–11.

He seems to be doing better the second time around.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Love the optimism but on paper this class is not going to be getting that high of accolades.

Was this before or after Bubela? Granted that he may not be here next season, but think of the ecstasy if we had just received a commitment from the US U20's #3 scorer. Well, Slovakia finished higher than the US, and we have their #3 scorer.