>>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

[d4rksabre]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

I had a lot of fun watching this group of RIT women this season. It was nice to see Stack and Dagg finally get into the NCAAs where they've always deserved to be. There are a lot of great young players on this team that will carry them for years to come, but Katie and Sarah were special and they will be missed.

I want to thank the NCAA for being a giant pain in the butt to us RIT fans, but for also putting on a good show. I would have liked to have been able to stand in my normal spot along the glass like I had all season, but what are ya gonna do? It was fun watching the girls on Middlebury and Norwich get a laugh out of the "Make me a sandwich" taunt. Thanks for the sense of humor. And thank you to Norwich for traveling well, it was nice having opposing fans. Norwich came out with the jump and RIT could never get back in it. Such is life.

I think the RIT Women's program has officially arrived at the D3 level because of the possible move to D1. Allowing them to finally attract higher level players than in the past is a big deal, and this team will only continue to become better. The move to D1 needs to happen though. Saying "we might go D1" is going to be less and less effective every year that it's not true. This current incarnation may not be successful at D1 immediately (and you can't expect it to be), but I believe that RIT as a program will continue improving to the highest level in the years to come, especially if/when it is given the chance to move up.

Thank you to the team, and to coaches McDonald and Jones, for being great facilitators of an entertaining hockey season. As I finish my graduate degree, I hope to hear for many years to come, of the success of this team, even if I am not here to witness it.

 

[Mr. Kitty]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

tldr

too long? then don't cut and paste the entire wall o text just to add a frownie face -- the punch line wud have done -- it's supposed to be a "shaggy dog" story

 

[spike]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

I think the RIT Women's program has officially arrived at the D3 level because of the possible move to D1. Allowing them to finally attract higher level players than in the past is a big deal, and this team will only continue to become better. The move to D1 needs to happen though. Saying "we might go D1" is going to be less and less effective every year that it's not true. This current incarnation may not be successful at D1 immediately (and you can't expect it to be), but I believe that RIT as a program will continue improving to the highest level in the years to come, especially if/when it is given the chance to move up.

So let me get this straight. RIT attracts higher calibre of talent by dangling a move to DI? Does this also mean they dangle the possibility of money once the move to DI occurs? Wouldn't the offer of future money in exchange for playing currently at DIII somehow violate a rule or two?

 

[mar7967]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

So let me get this straight. RIT attracts higher calibre of talent by dangling a move to DI? Does this also mean they dangle the possibility of money once the move to DI occurs? Wouldn't the offer of future money in exchange for playing currently at DIII somehow violate a rule or two?

RIT, being a D3 school, can't offer scholorships...no there is no money dangling...good try though.

 

[NUProf]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

So let me get this straight. RIT attracts higher calibre of talent by dangling a move to DI? Does this also mean they dangle the possibility of money once the move to DI occurs? Wouldn't the offer of future money in exchange for playing currently at DIII somehow violate a rule or two?

D3 schools which play up can't offer athletic scholarships - they have to follow DIII financial aid rules. Only schools that were granfathered in before that rule was passed are allowed to provide scholarships. St. Lawrence, Clarkson, Colorado College, RPI are among those that can. RIT and Union are among those that can't.

 

[dpm105]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

I think the RIT Women's program has officially arrived at the D3 level because of the possible move to D1. Allowing them to finally attract higher level players than in the past is a big deal, and this team will only continue to become better. The move to D1 needs to happen though. Saying "we might go D1" is going to be less and less effective every year that it's not true. This current incarnation may not be successful at D1 immediately (and you can't expect it to be), but I believe that RIT as a program will continue improving to the highest level in the years to come, especially if/when it is given the chance to move up.

The hold up for the move to D1 is not on RIT's part. Even when the moratorium is lifted, the NC$$ wants nothing to do with moving our women up to D1, because they hate multi-divisional schools. Their response to RIT's request to move up to D1 is that if we don't like having a split hockey program, we can either move all of our sports to D1, or move our men back down. All the administrators I talk to, Deslter, Watters, Cooper all say the same thing. Doesn't sound like it is going to be an easy fight either. Dr. Destler and Cooper said that they have hired a law firm to look into finding a loophole to allow us to move the program.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

The hold up for the move to D1 is not on RIT's part. Even when the moratorium is lifted, the NC$$ wants nothing to do with moving our women up to D1, because they hate multi-divisional schools. Their response to RIT's request to move up to D1 is that if we don't like having a split hockey program, we can either move all of our sports to D1, or move our men back down. All the administrators I talk to, Deslter, Watters, Cooper all say the same thing. Doesn't sound like it is going to be an easy fight either. Dr. Destler and Cooper said that they have hired a law firm to look into finding a loophole to allow us to move the program.

Undergrad of 17,000....Just make the full fledge move to D-I already.

 

[NUProf]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

Undergrad of 17,000....Just make the full fledge move to D-I already.

Which will take them 17 years to do...

 

[Tweedle Dee]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

The hold up for the move to D1 is not on RIT's part. Even when the moratorium is lifted, the NC$$ wants nothing to do with moving our women up to D1, because they hate multi-divisional schools. Their response to RIT's request to move up to D1 is that if we don't like having a split hockey program, we can either move all of our sports to D1, or move our men back down. All the administrators I talk to, Deslter, Watters, Cooper all say the same thing. Doesn't sound like it is going to be an easy fight either. Dr. Destler and Cooper said that they have hired a law firm to look into finding a loophole to allow us to move the program.

From what I have read here on the boards multiple times is that a school is allowed two DI programs before moving the entire school. And if the NC$$s still say no, I guess it could be twisted to a Title 9 case, which I'm sure the NC$$s want nothing to do with.

 

[d4rksabre]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

So let me get this straight. RIT attracts higher calibre of talent by dangling a move to DI? Does this also mean they dangle the possibility of money once the move to DI occurs? Wouldn't the offer of future money in exchange for playing currently at DIII somehow violate a rule or two?

Money no. The idea of being recruited to a team that might possibly move to D1 in four years time, yes. Obviously it can't be advertised as a certainty, but for girls who have been overlooked by D1 but don't want to play on the less significant D3 teams, this makes RIT attractive.

The hold up for the move to D1 is not on RIT's part. Even when the moratorium is lifted, the NC$$ wants nothing to do with moving our women up to D1, because they hate multi-divisional schools. Their response to RIT's request to move up to D1 is that if we don't like having a split hockey program, we can either move all of our sports to D1, or move our men back down. All the administrators I talk to, Deslter, Watters, Cooper all say the same thing. Doesn't sound like it is going to be an easy fight either. Dr. Destler and Cooper said that they have hired a law firm to look into finding a loophole to allow us to move the program.

I am aware that it is the NCAA that is holding up the process, and I have heard similar to what you have.

From what I have read here on the boards multiple times is that a school is allowed two DI programs before moving the entire school. And if the NC$$s still say no, I guess it could be twisted to a Title 9 case, which I'm sure the NC$$s want nothing to do with.

I also believe this to be true, but you know how the NCAA is.

 

[NUProf]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

RIT women's hockey falls into a weird whirlpool in time. They weren't allowed to move up because of the moratorium which was imposed when play ups in one sport for each gender was permitted by the NCAAs. During the moratorium the NCAA declared "no more play ups." They have also said "if you stop playing up, you can never play up again." Had they moved the women's team at the same time as the men, they would be fine. The "one of each gender" stipulation was designed to accommodate Title IX. RIT is stuck being unable to meet the terms of Title IX by the NCAA's action of not letting them complete the move of a second program. The whole provision against play ups is what is stupid. How does it harm the NCAA if DIII schools want to provide one sport on campus in which they compete at the highest level. In RIT's case, there is one out - they don't need to move the program to DI - they can move all their programs to DII. DII schools compete at the DI level in hockey - heck, that would even allow the men to award scholarships, too.

 

[Tweedle Dee]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

RIT women's hockey falls into a weird whirlpool in time. They weren't allowed to move up because of the moratorium which was imposed when play ups in one sport for each gender was permitted by the NCAAs. During the moratorium the NCAA declared "no more play ups." They have also said "if you stop playing up, you can never play up again." Had they moved the women's team at the same time as the men, they would be fine. The "one of each gender" stipulation was designed to accommodate Title IX. RIT is stuck being unable to meet the terms of Title IX by the NCAA's action of not letting them complete the move of a second program. The whole provision against play ups is what is stupid. How does it harm the NCAA if DIII schools want to provide one sport on campus in which they compete at the highest level. In RIT's case, there is one out - they don't need to move the program to DI - they can move all their programs to DII. DII schools compete at the DI level in hockey - heck, that would even allow the men to award scholarships, too.

There is no DII title for women's hockey, so there wouldn't really be any point to moving up to DII.

 

[NUProf]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

There is no DII title for women's hockey, so there wouldn't really be any point to moving up to DII.

You missed the point. There is no DI title for women's hockey either, it is a NCAA national collegiate championship contested among teams playing at the DI and DII levels precisely because are not separate DI and DII championships. If RIT went DII, their women's team would be able to play for this DI-DII championship. Otherwise it will take 17 years to move the whole program from DIII to DI. The NCAA has ruled out play ups and RIT is stuck in the middle. The men moved in time, the women didn't.

 

[Zyklon]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

You missed the point. There is no DI title for women's hockey either, it is a NCAA national collegiate championship contested among teams playing at the DI and DII levels precisely because are not separate DI and DII championships. If RIT went DII, their women's team would be able to play for this DI-DII championship. Otherwise it will take 17 years to move the whole program from DIII to DI. The NCAA has ruled out play ups and RIT is stuck in the middle. The men moved in time, the women didn't.

why 17 years?

edit: according to this it would be like 5 years http://www.gorunners.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13300&ATCLID=653464

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

why 17 years?

edit: according to this it would be like 5 years http://www.gorunners.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13300&ATCLID=653464

Because there were recent changes in the process to joining DI. This has been discussed frequently on the DIII Men's Board. It's actually 13, not 17, but still... RIT would have to spend 5 years as active members of DII before they'd be allowed to petition for DI membership. That's 3 years probation for DII, 5 years active in DII, and 5 years probation in DI... totaling 13 years.

Or they could do 3 years, and be content with DII. It'd be no different for their hockey programs from going all-out DI, it'd take less time, and it'd be a bit less damaging to the rest of their programs.

 

[Zyklon]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

Because there were recent changes in the process to joining DI. This has been discussed frequently on the DIII Men's Board. It's actually 13, not 17, but still... RIT would have to spend 5 years as active members of DII before they'd be allowed to petition for DI membership. That's 3 years probation for DII, 5 years active in DII, and 5 years probation in DI... totaling 13 years.

Or they could do 3 years, and be content with DII. It'd be no different for their hockey programs from going all-out DI, it'd take less time, and it'd be a bit less damaging to the rest of their programs.

but because of the predicament we are currently in, I'm sure we could get the NCAA to change a rule/make an exception for us.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

I heard that RIT is recruiting kids with the illusion that scholarship money will be available soon, by moving to D1. I could give you a few examples which occurred within past two years, but I won't..... Not happening, the D1 thing, correct?

 

[NUProf]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

but because of the predicament we are currently in, I'm sure we could get the NCAA to change a rule/make an exception for us.

NCAA, exception, surely you jest

Threaten a lawsuit, and maybe you get a concession, but otherwise...

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

I heard that RIT is recruiting kids with the illusion that scholarship money will be available soon, by moving to D1. I could give you a few examples which occurred within past two years, but I won't..... Not happening, the D1 thing, correct?

As it stands, even if the women DID go up as an NCAA-sanctioned exception to the new prohibition of playups, they wouldn't be able to offer schollies. The men's team cannot offer scholarships as it is. Now, if the school has intentions to go DI or DII, this would have to have been announced some time ago to happen in 2011-2012. So that's not the case. Earliest they would probably be able to do it is 2013-2014. In which, any girls the coaches are recruiting would be playing, at best, 2 of the 3 year "provisional" period (which means they wouldn't be playing a postseason game after their sophomore year).

If they are indeed offering the possibility of future scholarships, there are 3 implications here:
1. They are violating DIII rules by discussing scholarships in recruiting for a DIII institution
2. They would have to be horrible people to lie to girls like that while trying to influence one of the most important decisions of their lives.
3. The girls need an extra few years of High School if they're dumb enough to believe this.

All I've ever heard of coach McDonald, RIT fan or otherwise, is that he's a classy guy. So my honest opinion? Your sources are probably full of shet.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: >>>>RIT Tigers 2010-2011<<<<

As it stands, even if the women DID go up as an NCAA-sanctioned exception to the new prohibition of playups, they wouldn't be able to offer schollies. The men's team cannot offer scholarships as it is. Now, if the school has intentions to go DI or DII, this would have to have been announced some time ago to happen in 2011-2012. So that's not the case. Earliest they would probably be able to do it is 2013-2014. In which, any girls the coaches are recruiting would be playing, at best, 2 of the 3 year "provisional" period (which means they wouldn't be playing a postseason game after their sophomore year).

If they are indeed offering the possibility of future scholarships, there are 3 implications here:
1. They are violating DIII rules by discussing scholarships in recruiting for a DIII institution
2. They would have to be horrible people to lie to girls like that while trying to influence one of the most important decisions of their lives.
3. The girls need an extra few years of High School if they're dumb enough to believe this.

All I've ever heard of coach McDonald, RIT fan or otherwise, is that he's a classy guy. So my honest opinion? Your sources are probably full of shet.

Shet? Not really. I spoke to a parent of one of the players on my son's team who knows a kid recruited for next season. They are convinced, and a write up in our local paper after her announcement indicates the same. What up with that?