What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
bigblue_dl said:
Question:

You are looking to buy a house. You narrow it down to 2 houses that you like that are essentially identical.

House A: Located in a neighborhood with a demographic characteristic something like: 75% African American, 25% Caucasian. The crime rate is X.
House B: Located in a neighborhood with a demographic characteristic something like: 30% African American, 70% Caucasian. The crime rate is X/3.

You decide to buy house B, because of the crime rate differences. Are you being biased due to race? Are you being racist? Or are you being biased due to a hard number, like crime rate?
Click to expand...
You're overcomplicating this, I'm talking about prejudices and stereotypes, the black thug, the exotic asian sextress, the irish drunk etc. It's about recognizing that you have these prejudices and stereotypes and trying to change them because, whether you like or not, they are racist, they are hurtful, they are wrong. The problem is we're trying to separate the two when they're one and the same.
 
FreshFish said:
Must respectfully disagree. Racism is a systematic and organized set of beliefs that "explain" why one group is inferior to another. Bias is more intuitive and less encompassing, and it's not always negative: "Asians tend to be good at math," "black athletes tend to be good at fast-twitch sports like sprinting and basketball [which ignores Kenyans and distance running....]."

"bias" is another word for "stereotype" which is another way of saying, "generally speaking, it seems to me that....". Racism is far more insidious, not just a difference in degree but also a difference in kind as well.

and the fact that everyone has biases is so well established that it's not at all remarkable. Research has also shown conclusively that it is far easier to spot bias in someone else than it is to notice it in oneself. For survival purposes, we learned how to make snap judgments with little data. That means that everyone's decisions are influenced by their experiences. What seems natural to us (given our experiences) might seem odd to another (given their different experiences).

bias is natural and inevitable, racism is neither.
Click to expand...
Except those "positive stereotypes" are not positive. They're based upon racist beliefs. I am shocked you can believe this.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Lol.

You'd last about 10 seconds in a bad neighborhood with that line of thinking.

Those biases are your instincts trying to protect your naive butt.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Jimjamesak said:
You're overcomplicating this, I'm talking about prejudices and stereotypes, the black thug, the exotic asian sextress, the irish drunk etc. It's about recognizing that you have these prejudices and stereotypes and trying to change them because, whether you like or not, they are racist, they are hurtful, they are wrong. The problem is we're trying to separate the two when they're one and the same.
Click to expand...

You mean everyone who is Italian isn't in the Mafia?
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Jimjamesak said:
those "positive stereotypes" are ... based upon [empirical experience, which is very different than] racist beliefs.
Click to expand...

There's the crux of your problem in a nutshell. Not all stereotypes are invidious, and many stereotypes are based on what we run into all the time in our everyday lives, and are a shorthand way of communicating general impressions.

If I were to say "Only hire Asians for IT positions," then that indeed is a form of racism [against everyone other than Asians], but to say, "in every math class I've ever taken, there are more Asians in that class than in the general population," how can that possibly be racist? It's an empirically true statement based on my limited and localized experience.

It's nice to be enthusiastic about a cause, yet you don't want to be such a stickler for purity that you drive away people who otherwise would be your natural allies.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Priceless said:
You mean everyone who is Italian isn't in the Mafia?
Click to expand...

At the same time, I don't know anyone who's of Irish lineage that doesn't embrace the drunken fighter stereotype, even if it's not truly representative of the person they are. I grew up in an Irish town, and when the state passed a law that all mascots had to remove violent names and logos from their nicknames, there was more than just loud grumblings as we could no longer be the Fighting Irish, using Notre Dame's logo, too. It was a town of about 5,000 people at the time, and the one block of mainstreet had three large bars. About 90% of the police cars patroled that section of town during bar close, not looking for DUIs, but trying to keep fights from getting out of hand. Sometimes stereotypes aren't just earned, they're still being built.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Gurtholfin said:
Those biases are your instincts trying to protect your naive butt.
Click to expand...

Remember years ago when Jesse Jackson said that if he heard footsteps behind him on a dark street at night, and he turned around to see who it was, if it were a white person he'd feel relieved but if it were a black man in late teens or early 20s he'd be anxious?

So Jesse Jackson is a racist!
 
FreshFish said:
There's the crux of your problem in a nutshell. Not all stereotypes are invidious, and many stereotypes are based on what we run into all the time in our everyday lives, and are a shorthand way of communicating general impressions.

If I were to say "Only hire Asians for IT positions," then that indeed is a form of racism [against everyone other than Asians], but to say, "in every math class I've ever taken, there are more Asians in that class than in the general population," how can that possibly be racist? It's an empirically true statement based on my limited and localized experience.

It's nice to be enthusiastic about a cause, yet you don't want to be such a stickler for purity that you drive away people who otherwise would be your natural allies.
Click to expand...
It's racist because you're still basing it on a racist observation. The fact that you're trying to draw a line between the two is the heart of the problem.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

St. Clown said:
I don't know anyone who's of Irish lineage that doesn't embrace the drunken fighter stereotype, even if it's not truly representative of the person they are.
Click to expand...

One assumes you only mean males, eh?

There's a different stereotype for Irish women. ;)
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Jimjamesak said:
It's racist because you're still basing it on a racist observation. The fact that you're trying to draw a line between the two is the heart of the problem.
Click to expand...

No, your failure to appreciate genuine linguistic and psychological distinctions that have been researched for decades is the barrier here. If you ask me who am I going to believe, you or Daniel Kahneman, I'm going to pick the latter. We use different parts of our minds and belief systems that actually can be tracked to physiological measurements. Ignore that if you will. Your choice.
 
FreshFish said:
No, your failure to appreciate genuine linguistic and psychological distinctions that have been researched for decades is the barrier here. If you ask me who am I going to believe, you or Daniel Kahneman, I'm going to pick the latter. We use different parts of our minds and belief systems that actually can be tracked to physiological measurements. Ignore that if you will. Your choice.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying to ignore it. I'm saying to recognize it and try to change it. Condoning and accepting racial based bias is the foundation for the racism in our society.

The fact is, everybody is a little racist, everybody is a little homophobic (or heterophobic), a little sexist etc. The first changing it in society is to recognize it in yourself and try to change yourself.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

It seems incredibly lazy to try and hand wave away subtle racism and act like it's some innate genetic programming that can't possibly be relearned.

Welp I guess I can't do anything about it, might as well not even try!
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Jimjamesak said:
It's racist because you're still basing it on a racist observation. The fact that you're trying to draw a line between the two is the heart of the problem.
Click to expand...

how would one describe the group in question? if i refer to a group of guys is that sexist :D
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Jimjamesak said:
Ahh I love Titus. Very underrated comedian. :D He's probably the only comedian in my top 5 favorites that isn't "controversial". Or maybe he is.
Click to expand...

He's controversial, but usually gets a pass, since his act it almost literally his real life. It's friggin' sad what he's been through.

Edit: I've looked up the harsh white jokes. They are good. I laughed.
 
Last edited:
Brenthoven said:
He's controversial, but usually gets a pass, since his act it almost literally his real life. It's friggin' sad what he's been through.
Click to expand...
It is sad, though I imagine it can be simultaneously rough and therapeutic for him.

Brenthoven said:
Edit: I've looked up the harsh white jokes. They are good. I laughed.
Click to expand...
I've heard a few, my work environment is definitely not a standard one. And they are *ing funny.

Harshest joke (in general) I've heard lately is from Jim Jefferies: http://youtu.be/tJnyrlzow1Y (NSFW)
"Are you a white South African trying to tell me you've done nothing wrong?"
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top