Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
I am under the opinion that racial base bias is still racism. Yes, you're never going to eliminate it completely. But there's nothing wrong with trying to eliminate it.
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Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
- Thread starter Handyman
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
To some extent, yes.
The sooner we as a society can admit this, the sooner we can actually deal with it.
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Fair enough. I don't agree that bias is always racism, but at least you admit that we are all biased in some ways.
Fair enough. I don't agree that bias is always racism, but at least you admit that we are all biased in some ways.
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Priceless
Guest
Those are all red herrings. He died because of taxes.
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Question:
You are looking to buy a house. You narrow it down to 2 houses that you like that are essentially identical.
House A: Located in a neighborhood with a demographic characteristic something like: 75% African American, 25% Caucasian. The crime rate is X.
House B: Located in a neighborhood with a demographic characteristic something like: 30% African American, 70% Caucasian. The crime rate is X/3.
You decide to buy house B, because of the crime rate differences. Are you being biased due to race? Are you being racist? Or are you being biased due to a hard number, like crime rate?
Question:
You are looking to buy a house. You narrow it down to 2 houses that you like that are essentially identical.
House A: Located in a neighborhood with a demographic characteristic something like: 75% African American, 25% Caucasian. The crime rate is X.
House B: Located in a neighborhood with a demographic characteristic something like: 30% African American, 70% Caucasian. The crime rate is X/3.
You decide to buy house B, because of the crime rate differences. Are you being biased due to race? Are you being racist? Or are you being biased due to a hard number, like crime rate?
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
This could be good...
This could be good...
johnnypohlfan
New member
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Honest answer here, and if it comes across wrong, so be it. You've had some life experiences that have led you to have the position you do on this general topic, and that's perfectly fine and admirable. I applaud you for being involved in your communities and making a difference. But, like you said, that doesn't make you an expert. And you know what else it doesn't do? Allow you to generalize a large segment of this board's membership, and assume at least some of us haven't done the same. And that we're racist. And that we aren't allowed a differing opinion. Post after post you come across as smug, pretentious, and holier-than-thou, repeating over and over "It's so great that [insert name here] is an expert on what it's like to be black". You don't know everyone's story. Don't act like you're better than everyone else because you helped put a sign on an inner-city street.
Are there people that "just don't want to see it."? You bet there are. And that's sad. But your constant "I'm allowed an opinion but you aren't because it's different" attitude doesn't help your cause. More people might listen and have a meaningful dialogue with you if you toned it down a bit.
Carry on.
Honest answer here, and if it comes across wrong, so be it. You've had some life experiences that have led you to have the position you do on this general topic, and that's perfectly fine and admirable. I applaud you for being involved in your communities and making a difference. But, like you said, that doesn't make you an expert. And you know what else it doesn't do? Allow you to generalize a large segment of this board's membership, and assume at least some of us haven't done the same. And that we're racist. And that we aren't allowed a differing opinion. Post after post you come across as smug, pretentious, and holier-than-thou, repeating over and over "It's so great that [insert name here] is an expert on what it's like to be black". You don't know everyone's story. Don't act like you're better than everyone else because you helped put a sign on an inner-city street.
Are there people that "just don't want to see it."? You bet there are. And that's sad. But your constant "I'm allowed an opinion but you aren't because it's different" attitude doesn't help your cause. More people might listen and have a meaningful dialogue with you if you toned it down a bit.
Carry on.
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
That's between you, God, and the hundred million self-righteous jackwagons that are able to read your mind and tell your motivations.
That's between you, God, and the hundred million self-righteous jackwagons that are able to read your mind and tell your motivations.
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
I'm not trying to start an argument (though, around here, that is probably where it will lead). I just think this is alot more complicated than just saying "its racism".
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Agreed. 1,000,000%
I left my old neighborhood/house for those exact reasons.
Wouldn't have mattered one bit if the perps were white, brown or yellow - had to get the ef away from it.
Agreed. 1,000,000%
I left my old neighborhood/house for those exact reasons.
Wouldn't have mattered one bit if the perps were white, brown or yellow - had to get the ef away from it.
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
And what sweet relief it was after finally being able to sell.
And what sweet relief it was after finally being able to sell.
unofan
Well-known member
I have not "justified" what you and others call a choke hold because I'm not sure that it was a choke hold as defined by the NYPD regs. If it was, then a prosecution would be warranted. The author/doctor presents that premise and I posted it without opinion, despite your crass opinion of me.
I've also presented my opinions from my experiences and training, including a number of similar incidents.
I can tell you that many times on the street training goes out the window and street instincts kick in. All of you armchair officers can ***** all you want about that fact of life as a cop, but until you've experienced it first-hand you really have no clue.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Right, we all get it and have all said that cops put their lives on the line. Problem is these cops were not in any danger. NONE! That man did nothing to warrant what happened to him. This isnt Monday Morning Qbing the guy is unarmed and making no threatening advances towards the officers. They went to far...its ok to admit it no one will revoke you "cop supporter" status I promise you.
This is getting worse than when Faux called anyone against the Iraq war an "America Haters". The super vast majority of cops are good and do things the right way, that doesnt mean we cant criticize those that dont.
Right, we all get it and have all said that cops put their lives on the line. Problem is these cops were not in any danger. NONE! That man did nothing to warrant what happened to him. This isnt Monday Morning Qbing the guy is unarmed and making no threatening advances towards the officers. They went to far...its ok to admit it no one will revoke you "cop supporter" status I promise you.
This is getting worse than when Faux called anyone against the Iraq war an "America Haters". The super vast majority of cops are good and do things the right way, that doesnt mean we cant criticize those that dont.
unofan
Well-known member
Replace cop/officers with black person/people, and that statement still makes sense.
And if you think some technical distinction about whether that was or wasn't an official chokehold is what makes it right or wrong (did you steal that one from Hannity?), then we're not even in the same universe for discussion purposes.
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Still with the we can't possibly understand what it's like?
I don't know what it's like to be raised by an abusive father, but I can still be opposed to someone who was abused growing up to abuse their wife or kid.
I agree with your take about the chokehold though. Was obviously more force than the situation required. I don't need even a day's worth of officer training to see that.
Still with the we can't possibly understand what it's like?
I don't know what it's like to be raised by an abusive father, but I can still be opposed to someone who was abused growing up to abuse their wife or kid.
I agree with your take about the chokehold though. Was obviously more force than the situation required. I don't need even a day's worth of officer training to see that.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Especially since Hannity is wrong. Like him I am a martial arts student and that is definitely a choke hold.
Especially since Hannity is wrong. Like him I am a martial arts student and that is definitely a choke hold.
unofan
Well-known member
I think we can empathize. But I think we as white people understand what it's like to be black about as much as we as males understand what it's like to be a woman.
We have an idea, maybe even a good one, but we don't really get it completely because we will never walk a day in their shoes.
If I could find the clip of the south park episode with the conversation between Stan and Token, I'd post it.
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Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Must respectfully disagree. Racism is a systematic and organized set of beliefs that "explain" why one group is inferior to another. Bias is more intuitive and less encompassing, and it's not always negative: "Asians tend to be good at math," "black athletes tend to be good at fast-twitch sports like sprinting and basketball [which ignores Kenyans and distance running....]."
"bias" is another word for "stereotype" which is another way of saying, "generally speaking, it seems to me that....". Racism is far more insidious, not just a difference in degree but also a difference in kind as well.
and the fact that everyone has biases is so well established that it's not at all remarkable. Research has also shown conclusively that it is far easier to spot bias in someone else than it is to notice it in oneself. For survival purposes, we learned how to make snap judgments with little data. That means that everyone's decisions are influenced by their experiences. What seems natural to us (given our experiences) might seem odd to another (given their different experiences).
bias is natural and inevitable, racism is neither.
Must respectfully disagree. Racism is a systematic and organized set of beliefs that "explain" why one group is inferior to another. Bias is more intuitive and less encompassing, and it's not always negative: "Asians tend to be good at math," "black athletes tend to be good at fast-twitch sports like sprinting and basketball [which ignores Kenyans and distance running....]."
"bias" is another word for "stereotype" which is another way of saying, "generally speaking, it seems to me that....". Racism is far more insidious, not just a difference in degree but also a difference in kind as well.
and the fact that everyone has biases is so well established that it's not at all remarkable. Research has also shown conclusively that it is far easier to spot bias in someone else than it is to notice it in oneself. For survival purposes, we learned how to make snap judgments with little data. That means that everyone's decisions are influenced by their experiences. What seems natural to us (given our experiences) might seem odd to another (given their different experiences).
bias is natural and inevitable, racism is neither.
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