POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

[geezer]

No. Nice false equivalency though. How about liberals actually stand up and fight for something? We gotta quit with this high ground, intellectual BS and say "**** you, we're doing this, deal with it." These people don't want to debate, they just wanna kick and scream until they get their way. You can't just keep getting bullied around. They want a fight and I say we give it to them and shut them down hard.

False equivalency how? Are you not advocating violence? You should learn what that means before parroting it.
My main point here is that I don't believe you're actually going to shoot anyone. Claiming you are makes you no better than the Charlottesville marchers. It's stupid.
The fact you agree with the desired social change outcomes of terrorists doesn't mean it's not terrorism. As the most basic understanding of history should make clear.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Why are left-associated lone nutjob killers "terrorists", but right-associated lone nutjob killers are just "lone nutjob killers"?

 

[geezer]

Why are left-associated lone nutjob killers "terrorists", but right-associated lone nutjob killers are just "lone nutjob killers"?

I think that particular distinction is only made of whatever TV network churns it out (Fox vs NBC?) The broader truth is that ANY violence that has a political aim is terrorism, regardless of what swamp it grew out of.

 

[geezer]

I'll say the same to you as I said to Gurt: if you accept the consequences of your actions, more power to you, and will support you. I don't agree with it, but it is your choice.

You might not support it for long if such escalation follows a historical pattern that is very easy to foresee. This is a serious tipping point we're at. There is no "justified" violence, no matter how good it would feel in the moment.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

You might not support it for long if such escalation follows a historical pattern that is very easy to foresee. This is a serious tipping point we're at. There is no "justified" violence, no matter how good it would feel in the moment.

I never said it was justified. But if a person is willing to accept responsibility for their actions, depending on the case, I'm okay with that overall. I won't condone it, but will understand it. And yes, support it. It might make me a bad person, and I accept that. Like, if someone raped your daughter, and you went vigilante...have at it, hoss. I'm behind you. It's a flaw of mine, I admit.

I would never ADVISE to take such action, but if you did that on your own.....that sorta thing.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

False equivalency how? Are you not advocating violence? You should learn what that means before parroting it.
My main point here is that I don't believe you're actually going to shoot anyone. Claiming you are makes you no better than the Charlottesville marchers. It's stupid.
The fact you agree with the desired social change outcomes of terrorists doesn't mean it's not terrorism. As the most basic understanding of history should make clear.

You're equating me with literal Nazis. Ya know, people who are advocating for the genocide of entire races right? This is the problem that has allowed these idiots to gather strength and how Trump got elected. At some point you have to draw a line and say "NO!" And this is why liberals lose all the *ing time, because they twist themselves into knots trying to get away from a fight.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

You're equating me with literal Nazis. Ya know, people who are advocating for the genocide of entire races right? This is the problem that has allowed these idiots to gather strength and how Trump got elected. At some point you have to draw a line and say "NO!" And this is why liberals lose all the *ing time, because they twist themselves into knots trying to get away from a fight.

The anarchist/extreme antifa folks (make SURE you make that distinction from the mainstream antifa) are saying THEIR violence is ok, but the hate groups' violence are not. Nope. Not in my book. Violence is violence. Unprovoked violence (and you know what I mean) is uncalled for. Period. It doesn't solve anything.

 

[mookie1995]

You're equating me with literal Nazis. Ya know, people who are advocating for the genocide of entire races right? This is the problem that has allowed these idiots to gather strength and how Trump got elected. At some point you have to draw a line and say "NO!" And this is why liberals lose all the *ing time, because they twist themselves into knots trying to get away from a fight.

Worked for Caesar

 

[aparch]

I guess FDR would be out then.

Well played.


I believe some of his staff admitted after his death that if the TV was more popular during his election, America never would have voted for a cripple.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

I never said it was justified. But if a person is willing to accept responsibility for their actions, depending on the case, I'm okay with that overall. I won't condone it, but will understand it. And yes, support it. It might make me a bad person, and I accept that. Like, if someone raped your daughter, and you went vigilante...have at it, hoss. I'm behind you. It's a flaw of mine, I admit.

I would never ADVISE to take such action, but if you did that on your own.....that sorta thing.

If you support "it" and are okay with "it" you are by default condoning it and saying it's justified. You can't have it both ways.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

How about liberals actually stand up and fight for something? We gotta quit with this high ground, intellectual BS and say "**** you, we're doing this, deal with it."

If we're talking about antifa style fight, I gotta side with Geezer on this. That even if antifa has the moral high ground in simply opposing something heinous. As Wiki says in one example:

"Antifa protesters participated in the 2017 Berkeley protests on February 1, where they gained mainstream media attention, "throwing Molotov cocktails and smashing windows;" causing $100,000 worth of damage."

Here's the problem. The right gets punished due to Nazism and violence...and public opinion turns against them in terms of confederate monument removal and a hit to Trumps popularity. If the left also participates in violence, then the matter gets confused and causes apathy about who to support rather than unity against the right. Indeed Nixon appealed rather successfully to seniors who were sold on leftist violence.

I say give up any leftist violence to retain the public opinion unity against right wing extremism that has be created...and use it blunt the right and advance society as a whole.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Did you see Patton Oswalt's tweet offering any reporter $1000 to ask Trump what DACA stands for?

No but that is awesome

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

No but that is awesome

Heck, the PATRIOT Act.
Or countless other 'cutesy' named bills/laws.

None of those are on my radar, even after lasik. I think I'll go scuba diving. <-- Everyone get all three of those?

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

"Our commitment among the allies are ironclad," Mattis said. "Any threat to the United States or its territories, including Guam, or our allies will be met with a massive military response, a response both effective and overwhelming."

Jimmy was a "fire and fury" short of going full Trump.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

********* rescinded DACA today. I hope everyone is happy with their votes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/...rs-immigration.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Can America handle the truth of the tarnished 2016 election?

My guess is we couldn't handle the truth if it turned out trump's win was the result of tampering, whether by a foreign power or domestic shenanigans. Hell, many people believed Brett Hull's goal to win the 1999 Stanley Cup should have been disallowed, but after the players poured over the boards and the Cup was brought to the ice, there was no way the officials were going to bother revealing whether or not they took a closer look, let alone that the goal should have been called back and the game continued. If we could not handle the truth about a goal not counting, how can we handle the truth about an election not counting?

In fact we had proven a couple of times in the preceding 50 or so years that we'd rather turn a blind eye than take to the streets and demand election reform. 1960 and Chicago and Alabama? 2000 and Florida? 2004 and Ohio?

More and more I have my doubts that our elections are all that "free and fair." Too many things have happened in just the presidential elections in the 2000s. It really is true that where there is smoke there is fire. I think the evidence of this right now is the person who occupies 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Because if enough Americans were really either stupid enough, racist enough, or desperate enough, to vote for donald trump, I think we need to throw in the towel as a world power or a nation that matters. If we can elect someone like that, we have no business on the world stage.

Americans need to wake the hell up. Or give the hell up. Because right now it looks as if we are either stupid enough to elect a trump, or so stupid that almost 250 years into our lifespan as a nation we can't figure out how to honestly elect a president. As our current president might tweet, sad....

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

********* rescinded DACA today. I hope everyone is happy with their votes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/...rs-immigration.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Amazes me that some people truly thought Trump wouldn't be as bad as a President as he's been. If there's two things I thought he'd absolutely deliver on, its immigrant scapegoating and tearing up trade deals, both of which he can do himself without any legislative oversight. These play right to his base.

Now personally this doesn't affect me any as I don't hire a lawn service or run a construction company. However this is a good time to see just how enlightened media portrayed heroes of the right like Paul Ryan are. Chump is hilariously openly daring the GOP led Congress to come up with a solution over the next 6 months. While I feel sorry of course for the people caught in the middle of this, watching Goopers flail around and then ultimately kowtow down to Trump is going to be pretty amusing.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Can America handle the truth of the tarnished 2016 election?

My guess is we couldn't handle the truth if it turned out trump's win was the result of tampering, whether by a foreign power or domestic shenanigans. Hell, many people believed Brett Hull's goal to win the 1999 Stanley Cup should have been disallowed, but after the players poured over the boards and the Cup was brought to the ice, there was no way the officials were going to bother revealing whether or not they took a closer look, let alone that the goal should have been called back and the game continued. If we could not handle the truth about a goal not counting, how can we handle the truth about an election not counting?

In fact we had proven a couple of times in the preceding 50 or so years that we'd rather turn a blind eye than take to the streets and demand election reform. 1960 and Chicago and Alabama? 2000 and Florida? 2004 and Ohio?

More and more I have my doubts that our elections are all that "free and fair." Too many things have happened in just the presidential elections in the 2000s. It really is true that where there is smoke there is fire. I think the evidence of this right now is the person who occupies 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Because if enough Americans were really either stupid enough, racist enough, or desperate enough, to vote for donald trump, I think we need to throw in the towel as a world power or a nation that matters. If we can elect someone like that, we have no business on the world stage.

Americans need to wake the hell up. Or give the hell up. Because right now it looks as if we are either stupid enough to elect a trump, or so stupid that almost 250 years into our lifespan as a nation we can't figure out how to honestly elect a president. As our current president might tweet, sad....

One interesting thing is that of the two stolen elections (1960, 2000) and the two skeezy ones (2004, 2016), in only one of them was the incumbent party the declared winner. I think we would be a lot more worried and angry about it if the fraud was being used to keep the ruling party, like in African elections.

It is likely that between voter suppression measures and state official misconduct the GOP has outright stolen 3 elections since 2000, resulting in 3 SCOTUS justices and a 5-4 rather than a 2-7 Court. The ramifications of this will last another fifty years. It is a period of almost unbelievable political corruption.

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Amazes me that some people truly thought Trump wouldn't be as bad as a President as he's been. If there's two things I thought he'd absolutely deliver on, its immigrant scapegoating and tearing up trade deals, both of which he can do himself without any legislative oversight. These play right to his base.

Now personally this doesn't affect me any as I don't hire a lawn service or run a construction company. However this is a good time to see just how enlightened media portrayed heroes of the right like Paul Ryan are. Chump is hilariously openly daring the GOP led Congress to come up with a solution over the next 6 months. While I feel sorry of course for the people caught in the middle of this, watching Goopers flail around and then ultimately kowtow down to Trump is going to be pretty amusing.

I'm wondering who he is going to blame when food prices go up.

dumpies are happy to see immigration go down because they are afraid of it. The side effect of less illegal immigration is lower legal immigration, less workers, higher food costs, then what?

Or when tech companies struggle to businesses in Canada- since they are welcoming the income of talent, vs the outright suspicion of it here. Granted, I have mentioned that it's odd that the company I work with seems to be increasing the number of non-US citizens we have working here- but that may be because the US talent pool has shrunk thanks to the cutbacks in education.

The long term effects of republican policies, driven by the anti-globalist fear mongerers is going to really tank this country.

Then again, it hurts us a LOT that we look down on the most physical of labor plus give bonus points to people who have unearned income. For a country that is supposed to have a work-a-holic stance- we shun real work pretty badly.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

The anarchist/extreme antifa folks (make SURE you make that distinction from the mainstream antifa) are saying THEIR violence is ok, but the hate groups' violence are not. Nope. Not in my book. Violence is violence. Unprovoked violence (and you know what I mean) is uncalled for. Period. It doesn't solve anything.

Actually it's a very useful tool against fascists.

If we're talking about antifa style fight, I gotta side with Geezer on this. That even if antifa has the moral high ground in simply opposing something heinous. As Wiki says in one example:

"Antifa protesters participated in the 2017 Berkeley protests on February 1, where they gained mainstream media attention, "throwing Molotov cocktails and smashing windows;" causing $100,000 worth of damage."

Here's the problem. The right gets punished due to Nazism and violence...and public opinion turns against them in terms of confederate monument removal and a hit to Trumps popularity. If the left also participates in violence, then the matter gets confused and causes apathy about who to support rather than unity against the right. Indeed Nixon appealed rather successfully to seniors who were sold on leftist violence.

I say give up any leftist violence to retain the public opinion unity against right wing extremism that has be created...and use it blunt the right and advance society as a whole.

I honestly have no idea what happened in the Berkeley February thing but anytime you have a large enough nation-wide group of people somebody is going to do something stupid eventually (assuming they were part of Antifa or a leftist group in this case). No they shouldn't be throwing molotovs or smashing windows but let's not try and equate them to the far right groups who've committed far more acts of domestic terrorism this year alone than left groups have in like a century.