And I'm certainly not blaming education for all of millenial's issues. But I think if you look at what was spent and how our generation turned out the results leave a lot to be desired. If we keep doing what we've been doing don't expect the results to change.
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POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
- Thread starter joecct
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And I'm certainly not blaming education for all of millenial's issues. But I think if you look at what was spent and how our generation turned out the results leave a lot to be desired. If we keep doing what we've been doing don't expect the results to change.
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
Here. I found it for you. Watch it.
Here. I found it for you. Watch it.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
We have the greatest post secondary education on the planet. Period.
Our failure to meet the needs of our average to lower average citizenry is our fault, not the educators.
You know all those numbers depend on the students producing them and the parents producing the students. The US is always going to be behind because we treat everyone the same and we bring in multiple cultures, etc. etc. We also don't discriminate against the physically or mentally handicapped.
We have the greatest post secondary education on the planet. Period.
Our failure to meet the needs of our average to lower average citizenry is our fault, not the educators.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
And I don't want to make it look like I'm dumping on teachers. That's not my purpose here. We have issues within the system and home life for many (most?) of our failing students, and teachers are often caught in the middle, pointed as the most visible actors in whole process.
Thinking about that, I have two friends who are public school teachers. One teaches at a magnet school, a science-based school of one discipline or another. The other is a kindergarten teacher at a standard elementary school, and she's more fed up with everything involving education than anyone else I've ever known. She decided to take on the roll of the union contact for her school (what's that official title, does anybody here know?). She's frustrated with the union aspects of the job, largely because she thinks too many of her fellows expect too many things from their union in terms of handling specific issues, or exactly what it is the union handles.
And I don't want to make it look like I'm dumping on teachers. That's not my purpose here. We have issues within the system and home life for many (most?) of our failing students, and teachers are often caught in the middle, pointed as the most visible actors in whole process.
Thinking about that, I have two friends who are public school teachers. One teaches at a magnet school, a science-based school of one discipline or another. The other is a kindergarten teacher at a standard elementary school, and she's more fed up with everything involving education than anyone else I've ever known. She decided to take on the roll of the union contact for her school (what's that official title, does anybody here know?). She's frustrated with the union aspects of the job, largely because she thinks too many of her fellows expect too many things from their union in terms of handling specific issues, or exactly what it is the union handles.
I think it might benefit both parties if there was an online school or some alternate arrangement for the kids who are failing. From what I have been told there are too many situations where teachers have to split the difference because of kids being on completely different levels. Surely with the technology and resources at our disposal we can do better.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
That's of those that actually entire HS. Dropout rates before HS are much higher for most of those countries listed.
And as Scooby noted the US will educate EVERYONE through HS that wants to - that cannot be said of the most of the planet as the lesser are weeded out much earlier.
That's of those that actually entire HS. Dropout rates before HS are much higher for most of those countries listed.
And as Scooby noted the US will educate EVERYONE through HS that wants to - that cannot be said of the most of the planet as the lesser are weeded out much earlier.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
We need to do a better job of sorting students. That's for sure. Also, some of the requirements for High School for some students is ridiculous. Requiring Science level math for kids that have no interest or aptitude for science to graduate High School is silly.
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
That has some merit and is probably being done in some places. In fact, I think our local high school does something like that.
That has some merit and is probably being done in some places. In fact, I think our local high school does something like that.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
See how we are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiYJO2RYA0c
See how we are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiYJO2RYA0c
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
Have those changed in the last 20 years? I graduated high school in 95. Math and science were required through 10th grade, but were entirely optional after that, intended for students that wanted to attend college. The math classes for 9th and 10th grade, assuming the standard level course, not the advanced or dumb-dumb classes, gave you high school algebra and geometry. The science courses at my school for those two years were earth sciences and biology. The same two-year requirement was true for foreign languages. English and social studies courses were required for all four years. My school told us that these graduation requirements were directly tied to the state's rules.
Have those changed in the last 20 years? I graduated high school in 95. Math and science were required through 10th grade, but were entirely optional after that, intended for students that wanted to attend college. The math classes for 9th and 10th grade, assuming the standard level course, not the advanced or dumb-dumb classes, gave you high school algebra and geometry. The science courses at my school for those two years were earth sciences and biology. The same two-year requirement was true for foreign languages. English and social studies courses were required for all four years. My school told us that these graduation requirements were directly tied to the state's rules.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
You have to take 9th grade science, Biology, and either Chemistry of Physics. That's 3 years of science. Chemistry and Physics is very hard for some students. There isn't a geology option like in college.
You have to take Alegebra, Geometry, and Advanced Algebra/Trig and Statistics. That's 3 years plus of math. Some of that math is very hard for some students and a lot of it they'll never use. I am in a very advanced Tech Field and I don't use any of my high level math.
Apparently they have.
You have to take 9th grade science, Biology, and either Chemistry of Physics. That's 3 years of science. Chemistry and Physics is very hard for some students. There isn't a geology option like in college.
You have to take Alegebra, Geometry, and Advanced Algebra/Trig and Statistics. That's 3 years plus of math. Some of that math is very hard for some students and a lot of it they'll never use. I am in a very advanced Tech Field and I don't use any of my high level math.
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
What about VoTech HS? Do they have the same requirements?
There also needs to be a mandatory Home Economics class. Not the cooking class, but a class on how to manage the economy of a home. Budgeting, taxes, insurance, basic home repair and anything else most of us learned OJT or by helping Dad or Mom.
What about VoTech HS? Do they have the same requirements?
There also needs to be a mandatory Home Economics class. Not the cooking class, but a class on how to manage the economy of a home. Budgeting, taxes, insurance, basic home repair and anything else most of us learned OJT or by helping Dad or Mom.
French Rage
NICKERSON HAS [CENSORED]
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
I was talking about this with someone the other day. HomeEc as you describe covers a lot of stuff that is very useful and while most of us get it at home it's vital that those who do not are exposed to it. HomeEc as its become (or at least was in the 90s when I took it) is just "let's sow a bag and learn how to boil water". Not that learning sewing isn't a good skill, mind you, but there's so much more it could cover; it feels like that class becomes the dumping ground for teachers they can't find anything else to do with.
I was talking about this with someone the other day. HomeEc as you describe covers a lot of stuff that is very useful and while most of us get it at home it's vital that those who do not are exposed to it. HomeEc as its become (or at least was in the 90s when I took it) is just "let's sow a bag and learn how to boil water". Not that learning sewing isn't a good skill, mind you, but there's so much more it could cover; it feels like that class becomes the dumping ground for teachers they can't find anything else to do with.
unofan
Well-known member
What does any of that have to do with quality of education?
rufus
rock and roller
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
My local high school has, as far as I know, a pretty complete culinary arts program. Being that it's a touristy area with lots of restaurants and bars, they learn pretty much everything from planning menus to setting up full course meals, and I believe, a few other things that working in and running a restaurant would entail. They also run their own cafe which is open for limited hours where people can actually come in and order lunches
My local high school has, as far as I know, a pretty complete culinary arts program. Being that it's a touristy area with lots of restaurants and bars, they learn pretty much everything from planning menus to setting up full course meals, and I believe, a few other things that working in and running a restaurant would entail. They also run their own cafe which is open for limited hours where people can actually come in and order lunches
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
Trying to this in urban, large school districts? Good luck finding the funding.
And I'm going to guess that this is in a small suburban or rural district that operates few schools and therefore has the money to do this.
Trying to this in urban, large school districts? Good luck finding the funding.
rufus
rock and roller
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
Yes, which is why 1. we need more funding for education, not less, and 2. need to dump the standardized testing one-size-fits-all approach to education, and tailor programs more toward the local areas.
Maybe not all urban schools could have such a program, but there's nothing that stops setting up such a program where students from multiple urban schools could participate.
Yes, which is why 1. we need more funding for education, not less, and 2. need to dump the standardized testing one-size-fits-all approach to education, and tailor programs more toward the local areas.
Maybe not all urban schools could have such a program, but there's nothing that stops setting up such a program where students from multiple urban schools could participate.
1. Local money, not federal.
2. Any money needs to go to the classroom, not to the Suoerintendent's office and staff.
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
What's needed is to stop funding schools from the local level and apply funding across nationally. There's nothing wrong with tailoring how schools operate and teach at the local level but they shouldn't have to rely upon the local tax base to fund things.
But now you're asking families to transport kids across relatively large distances just to participate in a program, giving up valuable time that could be used in better ways.
What's needed is to stop funding schools from the local level and apply funding across nationally. There's nothing wrong with tailoring how schools operate and teach at the local level but they shouldn't have to rely upon the local tax base to fund things.
unofan
Well-known member
1. Because poor areas don't deserve good education, right? Local funding increases the disparity between the rich and poor, state and federal funding equalize it.
2. Agreed in principle, though a lot of that has to do with mandates from all directions.
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