JDUBBS1280
MN Hockey Enthusiast
Yes. No question. No hesitation.
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Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
- Thread starter rjohntute
- Start date
Yes. No question. No hesitation.
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
McQuery had 9 years to do something else about this. He likely saw Sandusky with other young kids as players from that period reported Sandusky was a frequent visitor to the football facility, was still involved at the charity and we know he committed other acts against other boys.
Regardless of who he told once or his ability to claim whistleblower...the university should fire him and dare him to sue...then take it to a jury and dare his lawyer to convince 12 people what he did was ok and what the school did was wrong.
Even if they lose, they win. The money lost will be a drop in the bucket...they will do more by saying they won't let anybody else hide behind legal technicalities to absolve themselves of their involvement in this crime and aren't going to measure this in dollars and cents. Look where their 'protect the school' mentality got them so far.
I'm not saying that avoiding a whistleblower suit (if you believe there could be one) isn't the right thing to do XX% of the time...I just think this is the exception.
I hear many people refer this to passing by a crime on the street...I disagree...this is like passing by the same crime every day when even an anonymous note to a reporter or the police would have brought this to a halt. There is no 'I froze' or 'I was worried for my safety' defense over 9 years. He didn't even quit and go somewhere else. I say the school hangs him out to dry too and lets public opinion back them up...even if they lose a few million $$.
McQuery had 9 years to do something else about this. He likely saw Sandusky with other young kids as players from that period reported Sandusky was a frequent visitor to the football facility, was still involved at the charity and we know he committed other acts against other boys.
Regardless of who he told once or his ability to claim whistleblower...the university should fire him and dare him to sue...then take it to a jury and dare his lawyer to convince 12 people what he did was ok and what the school did was wrong.
Even if they lose, they win. The money lost will be a drop in the bucket...they will do more by saying they won't let anybody else hide behind legal technicalities to absolve themselves of their involvement in this crime and aren't going to measure this in dollars and cents. Look where their 'protect the school' mentality got them so far.
I'm not saying that avoiding a whistleblower suit (if you believe there could be one) isn't the right thing to do XX% of the time...I just think this is the exception.
I hear many people refer this to passing by a crime on the street...I disagree...this is like passing by the same crime every day when even an anonymous note to a reporter or the police would have brought this to a halt. There is no 'I froze' or 'I was worried for my safety' defense over 9 years. He didn't even quit and go somewhere else. I say the school hangs him out to dry too and lets public opinion back them up...even if they lose a few million $$.
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Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
This goes beyond football. This is a huge black mark for the university as a whole. Obviously they will still get applications, but I absolutely think there are going to be plenty of parents who have to think twice about their kid going to PSU. I'm not even saying they will never be able to rebuild. I'm just saying this will last a while. A significant impact will be felt beyond just football.
Oh, I agree with that. Never questioned them being able to launch the program.
This goes beyond football. This is a huge black mark for the university as a whole. Obviously they will still get applications, but I absolutely think there are going to be plenty of parents who have to think twice about their kid going to PSU. I'm not even saying they will never be able to rebuild. I'm just saying this will last a while. A significant impact will be felt beyond just football.
Oh, I agree with that. Never questioned them being able to launch the program.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
If I saw my brother raping a 10 year old boy (thanks for that vision) I would definitely stop him. Do you even have to question whether you would your own brother? Really?
BTW, Sandusky and McQuery were hardly tight like brothers.
You're trying to make intervening to stop a violent act on a child into a gray area when it couldn't be any more black and white. Quite possibly the single most black and white issue I could possibly think of.
Why would you try to defend this position? Do you really believe this or are you working on your debating skills?
If I saw my brother raping a 10 year old boy (thanks for that vision) I would definitely stop him. Do you even have to question whether you would your own brother? Really?
BTW, Sandusky and McQuery were hardly tight like brothers.
You're trying to make intervening to stop a violent act on a child into a gray area when it couldn't be any more black and white. Quite possibly the single most black and white issue I could possibly think of.
Why would you try to defend this position? Do you really believe this or are you working on your debating skills?
dggoddard
New member
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
OK you got me there. He should of come forward sooner. Much sooner. It sure appears that he was paid off with a coaching job.
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dggoddard
New member
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
But this topic has nothing to do with what I would do. This conversation is about what McQuery did or did not do, if he is a coward and if he is entitled to a settlement.
This "situation/disaster" is going to be case studied for generations, because of the complexities involved. School pride, team loyalty [ie-family], sexual stigma, pedophilia, whistle blowing, the lawsuits, the cover-up. Very complicated issues.
Trust me. I don't want to defend this guy or anyone at Penn State.
But this topic has nothing to do with what I would do. This conversation is about what McQuery did or did not do, if he is a coward and if he is entitled to a settlement.
This "situation/disaster" is going to be case studied for generations, because of the complexities involved. School pride, team loyalty [ie-family], sexual stigma, pedophilia, whistle blowing, the lawsuits, the cover-up. Very complicated issues.
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JDUBBS1280
MN Hockey Enthusiast
Yeah, legally it probably is. But I think what people are trying to say is that the decision to put Sandusky thru a wall on the spot should have been as simple a decision as there is.
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
I hate to do it, but I agree...
Lets also say that he clears all criminal charges, and everyone associated with this mess.. My thinking is he and everyone else not in jail (Sandusky) will spend many years on trial in a Civil Court..
I hate to do it, but I agree...
Lets also say that he clears all criminal charges, and everyone associated with this mess.. My thinking is he and everyone else not in jail (Sandusky) will spend many years on trial in a Civil Court..
GopherBigGuy911
The one you hate to love
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_n...criminal-defense-lawyer-source-tells-nbc-news
http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_n...criminal-defense-lawyer-source-tells-nbc-news
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
It is now, after many layers have been added to it as a result of McQueary's inaction.
It wasn't the night that he saw what he saw. In that moment, McQueary had the choice of doing the honorable and moral thing or running and worrying about how that would affect him personally.
He chose the latter option, the cowardly option.
That ginger clearly has no soul.
It is now, after many layers have been added to it as a result of McQueary's inaction.
It wasn't the night that he saw what he saw. In that moment, McQueary had the choice of doing the honorable and moral thing or running and worrying about how that would affect him personally.
He chose the latter option, the cowardly option.
That ginger clearly has no soul.
GopherBigGuy911
The one you hate to love
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
Happy
Registered User
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
don't forget, what McQuery told the grand jury does not seem to be the same thing Joe Pa told the grand jury he was told. If that is true, than McQuery has a lot more responsibility in this than Joe Pa. or, Joe Pa does. Thank parise it didn't happen at my school.
don't forget, what McQuery told the grand jury does not seem to be the same thing Joe Pa told the grand jury he was told. If that is true, than McQuery has a lot more responsibility in this than Joe Pa. or, Joe Pa does. Thank parise it didn't happen at my school.
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
It will be interesting to see. PSU applications for next fall are due Nov 30, which means that most of the applications for next year are probably already in. If this had gone down a month earlier, I think it would have had a significant impact on the number of applications. It may yet affect the "yield," though - I'd hate to be on the admissions committee trying to predict how many acceptances should be issued in order to fill the class.
Happy
Registered User
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
it seems like a perfectly safe place to send an 18 year old girl.
it seems like a perfectly safe place to send an 18 year old girl.
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
No question that its a giant psychological body blow to the entire school... but I think you're overplaying it. In a couple of years things will be smoothed over as much as it can be. The real question is how bad does the situation get and what does that then imply about NCAA sanction.
edit: we have a former Penn State professor on staff at work, he still lives in Happy Valley a few blocks from campus... works a 4 day schedule and goes home on the weekend. I think pulling more insight from him will be useful. He's just glad his son got through Sandusky's program w/o meeting Sandusky because the kid fit Sandusky's preference profile.
No question that its a giant psychological body blow to the entire school... but I think you're overplaying it. In a couple of years things will be smoothed over as much as it can be. The real question is how bad does the situation get and what does that then imply about NCAA sanction.
edit: we have a former Penn State professor on staff at work, he still lives in Happy Valley a few blocks from campus... works a 4 day schedule and goes home on the weekend. I think pulling more insight from him will be useful. He's just glad his son got through Sandusky's program w/o meeting Sandusky because the kid fit Sandusky's preference profile.
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Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
Most of this will depend on the actions of Penn St. themselves from this point forward. This thing is so big and so potentially deep that I don't know if it's reasonable to predict anything. I really believe that the path this thing goes depends almost entirely on how Penn St. handles this combined with what hasn't come out yet (if anything). Also, I don't even think we can automatically dismiss how this will trickle down to the hockey program. If I've understood this correctly, the hockey program is getting off the ground because of a large donation by basically one individual or entity. What if more information comes out that makes Penn St. look even worse? What if that donor decides he doesn't want to make the donation because of it? Again, I don't think it's reasonable to just brush off the potential implications this could have on the hockey program. We could be looking at the biggest shakeup college athletics has ever seen. This won't be over for a very long time.
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
You can't compare this to the Duke lax situation - one involved the alleged actions of players, the other involves the action of one coach and then the actions (or more correctly, the lack of actions) of an entire staff and athletic department. As a parent, when you send your child off to a school, you are entrusting those school officials with a large part of your child's safety while there. These actions are valid reasons for parents to lose trust in those in charge there and there is no doubt in my mind that many are revisiting their decisions (pending or previously made).
Much of the future impact will depend on how the school/BOT handles things. Getting rid of Spanier and Paterno immediately is a good first step, but any investigations going forward will have to be thorough and transparent.
You can't compare this to the Duke lax situation - one involved the alleged actions of players, the other involves the action of one coach and then the actions (or more correctly, the lack of actions) of an entire staff and athletic department. As a parent, when you send your child off to a school, you are entrusting those school officials with a large part of your child's safety while there. These actions are valid reasons for parents to lose trust in those in charge there and there is no doubt in my mind that many are revisiting their decisions (pending or previously made).
Much of the future impact will depend on how the school/BOT handles things. Getting rid of Spanier and Paterno immediately is a good first step, but any investigations going forward will have to be thorough and transparent.
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
Quite possibly, by the time millions of $'s have been paid to the victims and their families, PSU could possibly be a solid D3 program. If all the donors and alum stay with it, well then maybe they'll right the ship in 5-10 years.
Quite possibly, by the time millions of $'s have been paid to the victims and their families, PSU could possibly be a solid D3 program. If all the donors and alum stay with it, well then maybe they'll right the ship in 5-10 years.
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
Mike McQueary was a coward. He was a 28 year old man that had a chance to stop a child rapist in his tracks. You do something to stop it and then you call the cops. It wasn't like he had to guess what was going on... he testified to what he saw. Disgusting. What a gutless PoS.
Mike McQueary was a coward. He was a 28 year old man that had a chance to stop a child rapist in his tracks. You do something to stop it and then you call the cops. It wasn't like he had to guess what was going on... he testified to what he saw. Disgusting. What a gutless PoS.
Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program
Only a couple years? That's certainly where we disagree, which is fine. I just think more information is gonna come out and this is gonna drag on. I think it's gonna be in the minds of parents/people all over for more than a couple years.
Doesn't it sound like the NCAA is staying out of this all together and letting the authorities handle it? I'm not gonna begin to pretend to know what the NCAAs jurisdiction is on matters like this, but it seems to fit the "lack of institutional control" label even though it doesn't involve recruiting.
Only a couple years? That's certainly where we disagree, which is fine. I just think more information is gonna come out and this is gonna drag on. I think it's gonna be in the minds of parents/people all over for more than a couple years.
Doesn't it sound like the NCAA is staying out of this all together and letting the authorities handle it? I'm not gonna begin to pretend to know what the NCAAs jurisdiction is on matters like this, but it seems to fit the "lack of institutional control" label even though it doesn't involve recruiting.