Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

He's a "whistleblower" who was an unpaid graduate assistant at the time. He reported the crime repeatedly to people who were significantly up the chain of command. He's not a coward and he may have protection under the law. My guess is that Penn State is going to have to pay him big-time to compensate him for a ruined career.

In addition, his possible protection under the law and compensation isn't going to protect him from his kid, maybe a son, asking him someday, "Daddy, why didn't you save that little boy when you had the chance? Why did you let the monster have him?"

 

[J.D.]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

Barry was just a strong advocate. Which is enough to make me puke but doesn't make him culpable.

I honestly don't even know. I just thought Alvarez was the driving force. I'm not pretending to know for sure.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

I think we're going to have to wait for more information on what he saw and what he did about it. I don't want to play devil's advocate because the crime is so horrible.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until this completely unfolds, but if what I'm hearing is true, the guy deserves much worse than getting fired.

 

[bothman]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

I think we're going to have to wait for more information on what he saw and what he did about it. I don't want to play devil's advocate because the crime is so horrible.

Read the grand jury report (it's public) - McQueary testified to what he saw. There is no debate there. He saw Sandusky "sodomoizing" a boy in the shower who looked to be about 10 yrs old.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

Read the grand jury report (it's public) - McQueary testified to what he saw. There is no debate there. He saw Sandusky "sodomoizing" a boy in the shower who looked to be about 10 yrs old.

I'm aware of that. Its horrible. I'm just not ready to call the guy a coward.

If he gets fired and doesn't get a payout, I'll be surprised.

I've been wrong before.

 

[skiumah2]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

You're serious? He walks in on that and runs out? He is by definition, cowardly.

You can't hide behind the law on this.

If he didn't want to physically intervene, he should have picked up a phone and dialed 911. You don't report CRIMES up the chain of command. You report them to the police and if they are in progress, you report them ASAP.

He didn't see Sandusky making excessive phone calls to recruits, he saw a rape of a child.

To expand on this even further, if the grad asst walked in and saw Sandusky choking the child, don't you think he would have stepped in? So why didn't he intervene in this case? The only explanation that would be reasonable is if he feared for his life if he stepped in. IMO, all other excuses are inexcusable. However, I could understand the reasoning if he feared retribution in regards to his job or his future with Penn St. That goes back to Gurtholfin's appropriate coward label though.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

I'm aware of that. Its horrible. I'm just not ready to call the guy a coward.

How about spineless?

 

[bothman]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

He's a "whistleblower" who was an unpaid graduate assistant at the time. He reported the crime repeatedly to people who were significantly up the chain of command. He's not a coward and he may have protection under the law. My guess is that Penn State is going to have to pay him big-time to compensate him for a ruined career.

One more point. McQueary is not a whistle-blower. A whistle-blower implies that you are reporting on a colleague. Sandusky was not a coach. He was not an employee of the university in 2002. Whistle-blower is an incorrect description for McQueary.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

I'm aware of that. Its horrible. I'm just not ready to call the guy a coward.

If he gets fired and doesn't get a payout, I'll be surprised.

I've been wrong before.

Even if he doesn't get fired, or does and gets a payout, that doesn't mean he isn't a coward. We aren't talking about what he was and wasn't legally required to do here.

I don't understand how anyone can think walking away from what he saw without stopping it (if that is indeed what happened) isn't cowardly.

If it were your child, would you be ok with him just walking away and reporting it after the fact?

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

Well to focus on the ability of the university to recruit in the future... there is another rumor out there that a number of people both in and out of the university knew about the abuse/cover up, and said nothing. This might include members of the bd of trustees. So you have to ask yourself if you are a recruit, if you are interested at this time.In fact it was alleged on Detroit radio today that it was an open secret in college football and fairly widely known.

Personally I think they are going about it the right way however it's hard to imagine that there will be no or nearly no problems in the other athletic programs.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

One more point. McQueary is not a whistle-blower. A whistle-blower implies that you are reporting on a colleague. Sandusky was not a coach. He was not an employee of the university in 2002. Whistle-blower is an incorrect description for McQueary.

Sandusky was retired at the time, and allowed access to the Penn State facilities because of his "emeritus status." The title was bestowed to him by Penn State University. So you could say that he was like a tenured professor.

McQueary was an unpaid grad assistant, for all practical purposes an "intern" at the time.

This is a very complicated legal situation that you're trying to make simple.

Clearly Penn State lawyers are going to be very carefully how they handle McQueary.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

One more point. McQueary is not a whistle-blower. A whistle-blower implies that you are reporting on a colleague. Sandusky was not a coach. He was not an employee of the university in 2002. Whistle-blower is an incorrect description for McQueary.

I would guess that the reason for the lack of any action on McQueary by the BoT is that they are still trying to figure out the implications of firing him, like we are here. They need to be sure that they don't open themselves up to further legal liability before making any actions. I would guess that as soon as they are confident that they can be rid of McQueary without putting the university at risk of facing another lawsuit, he will be gone. If for no reason other than simply cleaning house.

 

[FRICKER]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

There should be little to no impact on the hockey program or any athletic program and, in time, not much impact on the FB program IF and only IF they gas McQueery immediately!!! He should have been fired before Joe Pa. IMO, he is the one who should have gone to the police after Paterno had reported it and nothing was done. First, they had to go up the ladder internally because the agreement between the local police and the campus police is that they won't come on campus unless inveited. When the Administration swept it under the rug, it was the moral responsibility of the grad assistant to report it to the police. Paterno couldn't because he
didn't see anything. Maybe Jo Pa should have taken the grad assistant to the police. Many, many people knew or highly suspected that a problem existed and it should have been stopped in or about 2002. There's certainly enough blame to go around!!!

 

[bothman]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

Sandusky was retired at the time, and allowed access to the Penn State facilities because of his "emeritus status." The title was bestowed to him by Penn State University. So you could say that he was like a tenured professor.

McQueary was an unpaid grad assistant, for all practical purposes an "intern" at the time. This is a very complicated legal situation that you're trying to make simple.

Clearly Penn State lawyers are going to be very carefully how they handle McQueary.

I disagree.

It's a very simple situation and you are trying to over-complicate with legal complexity. You don't need lawyers or fancy lawyer jargon to understand this. This is a story about human beings at their very, very worst.

Yes, the clean-up & the removal of the waste may require some leagl intervention (only to avoid a lawsuit), but again, this situation was very simple.

If I saw my boss beating or raping a defenseless woman outside of my office, would I run home to talk to my wife, and then report it to my boss's boss the next day? Or would I call the cops right then & there?

Dgooddard - please tell me how what I do in that situation is complex?

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

Yes, the clean-up & the removal of the waste may require some leagl intervention (only to avoid a lawsuit), but again, this situation was very simple.

I'm pretty sure that this is exactly what he's saying is the complex legal part...I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

I don't understand how you can say there will be little to no impact on the hockey program, etc. This story has just begun--more will come out and it won't go away. PSU has a long way to go before their image is restored. There's already been one star football recruit tweet about maybe changing his mind on PSU. This is in the minds of parents everywhere and they most certainly have an impact on where their children will go to school.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

I disagree.

It's a very simple situation and you are trying to over-complicate with legal complexity. You don't need lawyers or fancy lawyer jargon to understand this. This is a story about human beings at their very, very worst.

Yes, the clean-up & the removal of the waste may require some leagl intervention (only to avoid a lawsuit), but again, this situation was very simple.

If I saw my boss beating or raping a defenseless woman outside of my office, would I run home to talk to my wife, and then report it to my boss's boss the next day? Or would I call the cops right then & there?

Dgooddard - please tell me how what I do in that situation is complex?

Perhaps a better analogy would be you saw your older brother committing a violent or unspeakable act. Are you so sure you would act immediately? Are you so sure you would call the police on him? If you didn't, are you a coward, or just trying to "protect" or save your family?

 

[SteveF]

I don't understand how you can say there will be little to no impact on the hockey program, etc. This story has just begun--more will come out and it won't go away. PSU has a long way to go before their image is restored. There's already been one star football recruit tweet about maybe changing his mind on PSU. This is in the minds of parents everywhere and they most certainly have an impact on where their children will go to school.

That's because the football coach just got fired. It's reasonable the recruits would rethink their decision. There is nothing to suggest any other sport would be affected. Did Duke lose bball recruits during the lax fiasco? Are you saying high school seniors are going to stop applying there? Unlikely.

For as many people who may not go there in the future because of this, there will be just as many who go there to help rebuild it. The net effect will be neglible

 

[bothman]

Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

Of course you would turn in your boss, because you would get his job the next day.

Perhaps a better analogy would be you saw your older brother committing the violent act. Are you so sure you would act immediately?

Let me think....Yes I would.

Again, I leave you with this quote & maybe it will change your mind on the "complexity" McQueary faced:

“None of us know our end, really, or what hand will guide us there. A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man ...truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power. When you stand before God, you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do thus," or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice. Remember that.”

McQueary & PSU put convenience before virtue - and that is why this thing is blowing up in their faces & will get worse as the special committee gets more details...more heads will surely fall.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

I don't understand how you can say there will be little to no impact on the hockey program, etc. This story has just begun--more will come out and it won't go away. PSU has a long way to go before their image is restored. There's already been one star football recruit tweet about maybe changing his mind on PSU. This is in the minds of parents everywhere and they most certainly have an impact on where their children will go to school.

Will it hurt recruiting, etc?? Maybe. Will it stop them from launching a program?? Highly doubtful IMO.