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Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

solovsfett said:
it's sentiments such as this expressed publicly that show that Indycar is still seen as a minor series to many: http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-rubens-barrichello-still-clinging-to-series-dream
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I saw that, and thought that if I were a team manager, the more he struggles with these "second rate cars" the lower spot he would get on my Rolodex. I fully expected him to be a lot better than what he has shown so far- yes, I know this is the first time on these tracks and all, but geez.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

alfablue said:
I saw that, and thought that if I were a team manager, the more he struggles with these "second rate cars" the lower spot he would get on my Rolodex. I fully expected him to be a lot better than what he has shown so far- yes, I know this is the first time on these tracks and all, but geez.
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I thought the Rubens might do a bit better but it's not like he sucking it up and running as a backmarker. I think most people had way to high of expectations (me included) for him. He's not doing bad considering he's not on a top team, has never seen any of these tracks before, and is driving a very different car from what he is use to. He's got the most points in the championship standings of any of his team at 11th and he's only 4 points out of 6th! I would be surprised and probably disappointed if he doesn't get a win but so far so good for him.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

MattS said:
I thought the Rubens might do a bit better but it's not like he sucking it up and running as a backmarker. I think most people had way to high of expectations (me included) for him. He's not doing bad considering he's not on a top team, has never seen any of these tracks before, and is driving a very different car from what he is use to. He's got the most points in the championship standings of any of his team at 11th and he's only 4 points out of 6th! I would be surprised and probably disappointed if he doesn't get a win but so far so good for him.
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Yes, but....

He's supposedly got a reputation of being a good car developer- with his experience, he was kept on teams when there were young guns available who were arguably more talented, but would have an issue with so little testing time. If that's the case, he should be capable of moving the needle pretty quickly. Again, if I were an F1 team leader, I would seriously double take on that one.

Plus, there seems to be a pretty good supply of drivers who have money following them.

It seems as if Indy is very much looked down upon, and if it's so hard that Rubens is having a tough time, they don't see that in Europe. Especially when they see that the only driver who had any decent success from moving over was Montoya.... The history of going from Indy to F1 is pretty bad, and if you are a mid pack driver on an Indy team, I seriously doubt that he'll be given a look anymore- regardless of the real reasons behind the apparent struggle.

edit- ironic that I forget Jaques Villeneuve today.... Between him and Mario, the only F1 champions who came from driving Indy cars before F1.
 
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Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

alfablue said:
Yes, but....

He's supposedly got a reputation of being a good car developer- with his experience, he was kept on teams when there were young guns available who were arguably more talented, but would have an issue with so little testing time. If that's the case, he should be capable of moving the needle pretty quickly. Again, if I were an F1 team leader, I would seriously double take on that one.

Plus, there seems to be a pretty good supply of drivers who have money following them.

It seems as if Indy is very much looked down upon, and if it's so hard that Rubens is having a tough time, they don't see that in Europe. Especially when they see that the only driver who had any decent success from moving over was Montoya.... The history of going from Indy to F1 is pretty bad, and if you are a mid pack driver on an Indy team, I seriously doubt that he'll be given a look anymore- regardless of the real reasons behind the apparent struggle.

edit- ironic that I forget Jaques Villeneuve today.... Between him and Mario, the only F1 champions who came from driving Indy cars before F1.
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I don't think he will ever be back in F1 as a regular driver. Maybe an experienced test driver someday for a team like Ferrari, but not a race driver. I understand his position and his desire to get back to F1. If that is his goal then I don't think he is helping or hurting his chances with his performance so far. If he doesn't improve on the road/street course then it will be a detriment to a F1 return. But I think 4 races is way too soon to judge him too harshly. As we all know it will be $$$ that in reality makes his return possible.

What do you reasonably expect him to have done at this point?
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

I expected him to be more competetive than he has been.

But I'm also looking at this through a F1 team owners eyes. Surely they would have expected him to be a LOT better based on his history, and their preceptions of Indy.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Rubens...he's never been to nay of these tracks, and I think the lack of experience at these tracks does hurt him a little. His teamates aren't seriously outperforming him, so I think it's more of a team issue than him. The fact that they have Chevy engines and as a team are struggling is a big disappointment.

Marshall Pruett laid out the exact basis for Dragon's lawsuit, I can see where the word fraud comes into play.

Honda was 2 mph faster @ Texas and Chevy.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Also, on a relative basis, Takuma Sato was able to be more competetive on arguably a lesser team easier than Rubens has. There are a lot of reasons an F1 team can find fault with his performance, or lack thereof.

I'm rooting for him, but with the expectation of a former F1 driver who would jump at the chance to go back, well.... Seems as if he needs to focus more on the job at hand and not a hope to drive in Europe.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

The discussion about Reubens made me look and he seems to be the only one with a realistic shot at the Indy Triple (500, Brickyard, USGP) unless Schmacher decides to race something else for once.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

alfablue said:
Also, on a relative basis, Takuma Sato was able to be more competetive on arguably a lesser team easier than Rubens has. There are a lot of reasons an F1 team can find fault with his performance, or lack thereof.

I'm rooting for him, but with the expectation of a former F1 driver who would jump at the chance to go back, well.... Seems as if he needs to focus more on the job at hand and not a hope to drive in Europe.
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I think you're letting your anti-Ferrari bias slant your thinking here! ;) :D
 
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Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

alfablue said:
doh!

But I like Williams! :)
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True, but since Rubens raced for Ferrari in 104 GP's and for Williams in only 38 GP's, I know your hatred of Ferrari is clouding your judgement. Now if he had only raced for McLaren for a race or two...... ;) :)

And in case anyone is curious, here is the breakdown of races for each team:

Jordan: 65
Stewart: 49
Ferrari: 104
Honda: 53
Brawn: 17
Williams: 38
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

MattS said:
True, but since Rubens raced for Ferrari in 104 GP's and for Williams in only 38 GP's, I know your hatred of Ferrari is clouding your judgement. Now if he had only raced for McLaren for a race or two...... ;) :)

And in case anyone is curious, here is the breakdown of races for each team:

Jordan: 65
Stewart: 49
Ferrari: 104
Honda: 53
Brawn: 17
Williams: 38
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Actually, I was a major fan of Stewart, not for Jackie's sake, but for some other core reasons. They were very much on the cusp of major success when Jaguar bought them out. Big bummer. Took Red Bull quite some time to fix that. And at that time, I was actually more of a Ferrari than McLaren fan- it's just that more and more came out that Ferrari was F1's favorite team, and was paid accordingly. Way more than the others, even when they were not good. They still get quite a bit more money than the other teams, so it's nice to see the Yankees of F1 struggle like they are.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

alfablue said:
Actually, I was a major fan of Stewart, not for Jackie's sake, but for some other core reasons. They were very much on the cusp of major success when Jaguar bought them out. Big bummer.
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I too was a major fan for Stewart/Ford. Then when Jaguar bought them, I was thinking the infusion of cash would get them over the hump, but Jaguar just destroyed the team. I don't know why Ford/Jaguar decided to get that far into F1, considering the company overall was struggling after spending zillions Volvo, Land Rover and Jaguar. I just knew owning all these high end car builders wasn't going to pay for Ford. Thankfully Mullally has the Ford ship righted and I love the global concept. The only dividend was my 2012 Focus has a butt that looks like a Volvo, and I like that look, but I digress....
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

How about that Spanish grid???

Ok, having Hamilton on Pole and Alonso kind of a surprising 3rd isn't all that shocking.

But Pastor Maldonado is second, and Hamilton had to steal the pole from him at the last moment! Vettel is deep into 8th, not getting a Q3 time, but Weber and Button didn't even make it to Q3 thanks to Maldonado and great running Saubers of Perez and Kobyashi. Senna didn't make it out of Q1 as he had a bad lap on his sticky tires, but it sure looks as if the most improved team from Asia to Europe is Williams.

Go Williams!
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

alfablue said:
How about that Spanish grid???

Ok, having Hamilton on Pole and Alonso kind of a surprising 3rd isn't all that shocking.

But Pastor Maldonado is second, and Hamilton had to steal the pole from him at the last moment! Vettel is deep into 8th, not getting a Q3 time, but Weber and Button didn't even make it to Q3 thanks to Maldonado and great running Saubers of Perez and Kobyashi. Senna didn't make it out of Q1 as he had a bad lap on his sticky tires, but it sure looks as if the most improved team from Asia to Europe is Williams.

Go Williams!
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I smell a conspiracy! ;) So Hamilton gets penalized for not carrying enough fuel on his qualifying lap. Starts 24th. That has to hurt. So Maldonado on the Pole on Sir Frank's 70th birthday!
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

MattS said:
I smell a conspiracy! ;) So Hamilton gets penalized for not carrying enough fuel on his qualifying lap. Starts 24th. That has to hurt. So Maldonado on the Pole on Sir Frank's 70th birthday!
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I'm pretty sure that Hamilton isn't even close to the first who stopped on the grid, but he sure is the first to be excluded from qualifying from doing it. weak.

Now that they've done that, I guess running tomorrow moring instead of watching will be ok.
 
alfablue said:
I'm pretty sure that Hamilton isn't even close to the first who stopped on the grid, but he sure is the first to be excluded from qualifying from doing it. weak.

Now that they've done that, I guess running tomorrow moring instead of watching will be ok.
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From what I read he was hit hard because once again McLaren was trying to lie their way out it. Not sure if that is true but that is what Will Buxton is saying.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Wow! What a day for Williams. Great win and a great drive by Maldanado. Then a huge fire in their pits! Messed up.

Great race by Hamilton. Hate to admit it but, well he deserves credit.

Massa is done. Unless there was an issue with the car, then he's lost it. Alonso second and he's lapped. Sad.

I wonder who is going to win in Monaco??? :)
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Awesome run by Williams and great drive by Maldonado. Pretty impressive how fast the Williams was on fresh tires, so much so that he easily passed Alonso on the first stint, and then gapped him both subsequent pits. Drove my wife nuts. :)

Didn't see the fire until a few min ago, so that's kind of shocking. (pun intended, since I heard it was a Kers related fire)

Who would have thought 5 races in we would have 5 different teams and drivers win. None of which were Hamilton or Raikonen. Should we expect a Sauber to win now? Or Lotus? Awesome.

Great job by Hamilton to nurse the car to a two stop strategy. Pretty amazing. And he was closing fast on Rosberg at the end. Just too bad that it was the result of a low fill.
 
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