What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Timothy A said:
Honda gets to keep the updated housing, conjecture says it will add 10-15 hp. I still have not been able to figure out if Honda or Brg Warner is at fault for the performance diff between them and Chevy. If Honda dominates qualifying, there's gonna be hell to pay from the bowtie teams.
Click to expand...

I think this is a bad move and sets a bad president. You're right, if Honda dominates Indy qualy, which they most likely will, then penske and the Chevy's will be whining which I certainly can't blame them. IMO, engine configurations should be frozen once the season started. If one engine is superior then so be it, build a better one next season. Otherwise what is the point of having multiple engine manufacturers? Why not just go back to spec racing? Oh wait it's Indycar and they can't manage to do almost anything right. Plus it's Honda a long time supporter which Indycar certainly doesn't want to leave.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

MattS said:
I think this is a bad move and sets a bad president. You're right, if Honda dominates Indy qualy, which they most likely will, then penske and the Chevy's will be whining which I certainly can't blame them. IMO, engine configurations should be frozen once the season started. If one engine is superior then so be it, build a better one next season. Otherwise what is the point of having multiple engine manufacturers? Why not just go back to spec racing? Oh wait it's Indycar and they can't manage to do almost anything right. Plus it's Honda a long time supporter which Indycar certainly doesn't want to leave.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and what happens next year with all the aerokits, when 1 aerokit is so much better than the others? And why doesn't Lotus get any help seeing as slow as they are?
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

MattS said:
I think this is a bad move and sets a bad president. You're right, if Honda dominates Indy qualy, which they most likely will, then penske and the Chevy's will be whining which I certainly can't blame them. IMO, engine configurations should be frozen once the season started. If one engine is superior then so be it, build a better one next season. Otherwise what is the point of having multiple engine manufacturers? Why not just go back to spec racing? Oh wait it's Indycar and they can't manage to do almost anything right. Plus it's Honda a long time supporter which Indycar certainly doesn't want to leave.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, i'm not a big fan of engine rules that require a total freeze. Especially when this year, you have a completely new motor to work with. To make it interesting for GM, Honda, and Lotus, it would make a whole lot of sense to give them a few days per year to introduce changes to the engines. So that the costs remain good for the teams, keep the prices very close to what they are right now. You could easily do the same thing for the aero kit builders- which brings the competition to a higher level car to car and engine to engine. I love Indy, but I want more than driver vs. driver.
 
alfablue said:
On the other hand, i'm not a big fan of engine rules that require a total freeze. Especially when this year, you have a completely new motor to work with. To make it interesting for GM, Honda, and Lotus, it would make a whole lot of sense to give them a few days per year to introduce changes to the engines. So that the costs remain good for the teams, keep the prices very close to what they are right now. You could easily do the same thing for the aero kit builders- which brings the competition to a higher level car to car and engine to engine. I love Indy, but I want more than driver vs. driver.
Click to expand...

That would be fine too. I am good with either one. I just don't like the whole we whine because we're not winning and we get an update thing.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Decent race yesterday in Brazil- mostly dominated by Power, and close behind was Hunter Raey. Great run by Sato- up to 3rd from pretty far back.

Side by side starts. Yea- not a great idea. Seemed as if every personal mistake on the track gave us 2-3 extra yellows at restarts. Not cool. The only serious higlight of the restarts was when Sato stuck very slickly into 3rd from 5th, but that was followed up by Conway, who made a nice little back up. I would have been ok with Sato working to get one place at a time with a single file restart.

Interesting talk about Honda getting a new turbo to "better" match the twins that GM and Lotus are using. Indy Car specs both the single or dual turbos, and they seemed to think that the single wasn't as good as it needed to be.... hmm. Like has been posted, next month should be interesting to watch.

I feel for the Lotus teams. Geez, those cars are slow.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Boring race if you ask me. so many cars crashed out on restarts and not thrilled with the circuit at all. Why can't they race at a proper course instead of this. It's hard to race, it's hard to watch and there are no run off areas. I remember a number of times qualifying high and wondering which idiot behind me would try to win the race on the first lap and crash me out in the first corner, which happened at least twice per year.
And yes those lotus's are terribly slow. wow.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

alfablue said:
Decent race yesterday in Brazil- mostly dominated by Power, and close behind was Hunter Raey. Great run by Sato- up to 3rd from pretty far back.

Side by side starts. Yea- not a great idea. Seemed as if every personal mistake on the track gave us 2-3 extra yellows at restarts. Not cool. The only serious higlight of the restarts was when Sato stuck very slickly into 3rd from 5th, but that was followed up by Conway, who made a nice little back up. I would have been ok with Sato working to get one place at a time with a single file restart.

Interesting talk about Honda getting a new turbo to "better" match the twins that GM and Lotus are using. Indy Car specs both the single or dual turbos, and they seemed to think that the single wasn't as good as it needed to be.... hmm. Like has been posted, next month should be interesting to watch.

I feel for the Lotus teams. Geez, those cars are slow.
Click to expand...

I thought the Brazil race was decent for a street course. I like side by side restarts but only if they are done properly, which seems very unlikely with these drivers and Indycar control.

Yes, the Lotus teams are in a heap of trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of them are left out at Indy. Which would be a shame since they are there struggling every week and we will get a couple of Indy only cars show up and be able to qualify since they will be running Honda or Chevy motor. Oh well I guess that is racing.

manurespreader said:
Why can't they race at a proper course instead of this.
Click to expand...
$$$$$ Just like why they race at all of the other street courses. Although I think they could draw well if they raced at Interlagos, but my guess is that the FIA (or Bernie) won't allow it.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

I thought the race was a good race, there were a good amount of passes for position and there were different pit strategies that made for good viewing. It was amazing Power was pulling away from RHR while on the harder compound, and apparently he was saving fuel as well.

I'm on the fence with the double file restarts. I like the concept, it increases the chances of passing on restarts. On the otherhand, as a Penske fan, it is extremely nerve racking seeing your driver in the lead on a restart. I was so afraid RHR would do something stupid and wipe Power out. I really don't like seeing cars getting spun out on a re-start, not even Whinechitti. it's just a matter of time before the leader gets wiped out on a restart, and that would not be good.

Speaking of Whinechitti, did anyone else catch the backhanded compliment he gave Sato for passing him on the restart (which was an awesome pass)? He has turned into a whiney dooshebag who comes across as being entitled and above the other drivers.

So is the Lotus Indy engine and F1 team related?
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Timothy A said:
So is the Lotus Indy engine and F1 team related?
Click to expand...

Have to. One team was Group Lotus, the other was Team Lotus. Which covers all aspects of Lotus. Group Lotus got changed to Caterham, and Team Lotus was what happened with Renault.

I *think* that the Lotus we see in Indy is Team Lotus, which was Bahar, and recently of bankruptcy. But now rumors have it that Genii may buy Lotus, which would be very interesting. And remember, at the moment, all of what we see of Lotus in Indy is a name with money- they funded KVR last year, and they are paying Judd to make enignes.

Finally- I think. i'm not sure if I messed up groupings.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

alfablue said:
Have to. One team was Group Lotus, the other was Team Lotus. Which covers all aspects of Lotus. Group Lotus got changed to Caterham, and Team Lotus was what happened with Renault.

I *think* that the Lotus we see in Indy is Team Lotus, which was Bahar, and recently of bankruptcy. But now rumors have it that Genii may buy Lotus, which would be very interesting. And remember, at the moment, all of what we see of Lotus in Indy is a name with money- they funded KVR last year, and they are paying Judd to make enignes.

Finally- I think. i'm not sure if I messed up groupings.
Click to expand...

To the best of my knowledge this is correct. Of course with the way things have been and are changing with the Lotus name I am not positive I can keep it straight!
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

I was watching the Delta Wing car test today on SPEED, and the thought I had is the narrow front wheelbase would make it slower through the corners then the conventional design, though I am no racer, though sometimes I put the Taurus or Focus through the paces :). Thoughts?

I am really sick of Miller crying about people not able to get engines, i.e. Shank. It's not a "right" that if you line up a team money and a driver that you should automatically get an engine from someone. That's part of the deal. He was the first to sign up with Lotus, but then he dumped out without a back-up plan.

I guess the whole Honda turbo thing was a bit over-blown because Chevy still dominated the race last weekend. I have this gut feeling Honda is going to dominate Indy qualifying. Are they going to have to lift in the corners @ Indy?
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Timothy A said:
I was watching the Delta Wing car test today on SPEED, and the thought I had is the narrow front wheelbase would make it slower through the corners then the conventional design, though I am no racer, though sometimes I put the Taurus or Focus through the paces :). Thoughts?
Click to expand...

apparently, it's a whole lot faster than conventional wisdom will tell you. It's designed to lap Le Mans roughly the same speed as an average P1 car. And, so far, it's proving to be that fast. There have been some good articles in Racecar Engineering about it, and it will be running the 24 this year. The point is to make an ultra low downforce, lower power, high economy car that can run LeMans. It's tub is from the former Aston Martin P1 car, and the motor is a turbo 1.6l from Nissan. Seeing it run, it's pretty cool.

If you can find the RcE magazines, I'd very suggest reading about (Aug 2011, Oct 2011, and May2012 so far)

edit- a quick look on their website- and there's a host of articles and interviews- http://www.racecar-engineering.com/?s=deltawing
 
Last edited:
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Timothy A said:
I am really sick of Miller crying about people not able to get engines, i.e. Shank. It's not a "right" that if you line up a team money and a driver that you should automatically get an engine from someone. That's part of the deal. He was the first to sign up with Lotus, but then he dumped out without a back-up plan.
Click to expand...

Me too! It's kind of like I have mentioned before. For every step Indycar takes forward it takes one step back. Teams should NOT be able to change engines during the season, nor should the turbos be allowed to change either (unless the BW thought there was an issue, not the engine supplier). Nobody is happy with the Lotus situation, but it is what it is. Those teams signed up with Lotus (I understand it was for various reasons) but still nobody made them take them and race Indycar. What about the little teams like Dragon and HVM? I guess because they are not "big time" and a Miller pet favorite, then to heck with them. Let'em flounder at the back with a Lotus? I think Miller is just what he claims not to be....a American-centric, anti-foreigner commentator (he's not a reporter) who plays favorites with drivers, teams, and Indycar personnel in his commentating. And I use to like him, but he has just gotten way to out there now.

End of my rant. ;)
 
solovsfett said:
awesome!

I've heard of him but am unaware of his accomplishments to-date. I'll have to look em up
Click to expand...

He's a pretty good driver. This is his second season of Renault F3.5. IIRC he won a few races in F3.5 last season and finished third in points.

I think he's got a shot with Caterham for next season depending upon funding and how his F3.5 season goes.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

MattS said:
I think he's got a shot with Caterham for next season depending upon funding and how his F3.5 season goes.
Click to expand...

I'd turn that ride down. Your first ride has to be a mid-level team like Sauber for instance for you to have any chance to move up to a top team. How often does a driver go from being on a totally sucky team to a top team in F1? It just doesn't happen. Wasn't Sutil supposed to have Schumi talent, but now he's just being over-run by guys like Grosjean and Perez.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Timothy A said:
I'd turn that ride down. Your first ride has to be a mid-level team like Sauber for instance for you to have any chance to move up to a top team. How often does a driver go from being on a totally sucky team to a top team in F1? It just doesn't happen. Wasn't Sutil supposed to have Schumi talent, but now he's just being over-run by guys like Grosjean and Perez.
Click to expand...

I think with a driver like Rossi it all comes down to money. He doesn't have the name or so far the results to turn heads on a top team or even a mid-pack team. If he has enough money a mid-pack drive could be within reason, but if not then a backmarker team will his best bet. Let's face it, very rarely does a driver get a top ride in short order. I think it is all about beating your teammate and showing more with the car than is expected. If those things happen a better ride will come. See Grosjean.

And as for Sutil, I think his lawsuit is a big reason that he is one the sidelines. But that is another issue.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Dragon racing is suing Lotus, with the basis of the suit being contractual fraud. I'm no lawyer (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), but to prove fraud, wouldn't you have to prove they essentially knew the whole time they had no chance to meet the requirements of the contract and still signed the contract anyway? All Lotus has to say is things didn't work out as planned, unless Dragon has a bunch of emails from a Lotus insider showing scheming going on. Next we'll have Miller screaming Shank Racing should get Dragon's Chevy's instead of Dragon.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top