Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Massa is done. Unless there was an issue with the car, then he's lost it. Alonso second and he's lapped. Sad.

Read this morning that Massa (& Vettel which I already knew) were handed drive through penalties for trying to overtake under a yellow. They didn't mention it on the Speed broadcast. Nor did I see it on the F1 feed from timing and scoring. So I guess that is probably why he was down that far. Although he is still a long ways off Alonso and if he doesn't get his act together by the summer break I think he will be hitting the Brazilian unemployment line.

Oh and did anyone see how slow the Lotus is at Indy? ~205 is the fastest lap and that is by Alesi! Compare that to the ~220 being run by the Honda and Chevy cars. This could be dangerous for the Lotus cars if they don't get their act together.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Read this morning that Massa (& Vettel which I already knew) were handed drive through penalties for trying to overtake under a yellow. They didn't mention it on the Speed broadcast. Nor did I see it on the F1 feed from timing and scoring. So I guess that is probably why he was down that far. Although he is still a long ways off Alonso and if he doesn't get his act together by the summer break I think he will be hitting the Brazilian unemployment line.

from the 'evidence' that Speed showed, it Vettel's wasn't attempting to pass under a yellow, but failing to slow down. Since they have enough real time temeletry from each car, it apparently was easy to tell that he didn't actually do anything different in the yellow area than he normally does- hence the penalty. Since Masa didn't really pass anyone all day (), I suspect that's why he got a penalty, too.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

from the 'evidence' that Speed showed, it Vettel's wasn't attempting to pass under a yellow, but failing to slow down. Since they have enough real time temeletry from each car, it apparently was easy to tell that he didn't actually do anything different in the yellow area than he normally does- hence the penalty.

This is my guess too.

Since Masa didn't really pass anyone all day (), I suspect that's why he got a penalty, too.

I guess you didn't see that start. He actually got a good one and got by several cars. But unfortunately that was the highlight of his day.

I meant to ask everyone here, what they think of the Schumi / Senna incident? I think it was just a racing incident. It looked a bit like Senna jinked a little but right then left and it screwed Schumi up a touch. But still how could Schumi not recognize that he was closing in fast on Senna? I wonder if age is catching up with Schumi and his reflexes and judgement are getting that slow?

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

I guess you didn't see that start. He actually got a good one and got by several cars. But unfortunately that was the highlight of his day.

Decent start, and then worked his way backward the rest of the afternoon. I saw it, but didn't pay attention to Masa, being how relevant he is these days.

I meant to ask everyone here, what they think of the Schumi / Senna incident? I think it was just a racing incident. It looked a bit like Senna jinked a little but right then left and it screwed Schumi up a touch. But still how could Schumi not recognize that he was closing in fast on Senna? I wonder if age is catching up with Schumi and his reflexes and judgement are getting that slow?

For me- dunno. The above shots of the incident does show Senna moving back in Mike's way, but then again, I also don't think he braked early for very old tires, vs Schumi's new ones- so Mike should have been able to not follow him that directly anyway, knowing the tire situation. In the end, from where he was, it's more the follower's responsibility to miss the lead guy- you can close from that distance, and assume that the guy knows you are exactly where he was. And it seems as if the stewards look at it that way considering that he's going to get a grid position penalty at Monaco.

One wonders if that impact had anything to do with the fire. He hit that Williams pretty hard.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Decent start, and then worked his way backward the rest of the afternoon. I saw it, but didn't pay attention to Masa, being how relevant he is these days.

I understand. You were paying attention to the backmarkers during yesterday's race as that was where Hamilton was running most of the day.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

I understand. You were paying attention to the backmarkers during yesterday's race as that was where Hamilton was running most of the day.

Well, it IS different seeing my driver pass other cars vs the alternative, but we must be both be getting used to that... Starting last and finishing in the points is not too bad.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Well, it IS different seeing my driver pass other cars vs the alternative, but we must be both be getting used to that... Starting last and finishing in the points is not too bad.

In all seriousness, Hamilton did an excellent job yesterday and for once McLaren didn't screw it up like they have several times this year. Anytime a driver goes from last on the grid to finishing in the points is awesome.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Massa was actually having a good run, but then the drive-thru for not slowing down killed him (Speed did call attention to this). Even in taking into consideration Massa was up to 6th before the drive-thru, he's done. What Alonso is doing with that car is saintly, and what Massa is doing is criminal.

Schumi....Senna drifted right, then kind of came back a bit, then Schumi hit him square in the back, I'd say it's all on Schumi. Schumi should have went for a highside pass there, but he really didn't move one way or another to try and pass after he closed amazingly fast.

Maldanado....WOW. Who saw that coming? So the guy has money and talent. Good for him and Williams, though I still harbor much ill will towards Williams.

Indy....The Lotus only doing 205 is a travesty, though it's within 7% of 219 if you look at it from an F1 rules standpoint. I wonder what kind of mileage they are getting? Maybe they can do the race with 2 less stops, but I don't think that would be enough to overcome the lack of speed and the fact they are probably going to get plowed into at same point.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Indy....The Lotus only doing 205 is a travesty, though it's within 7% of 219 if you look at it from an F1 rules standpoint. I wonder what kind of mileage they are getting? Maybe they can do the race with 2 less stops, but I don't think that would be enough to overcome the lack of speed and the fact they are probably going to get plowed into at same point.

I read today that Indycar has a 105% rule. But that it is more for race speed than qualifying. According to Barfield it is "unlikely" that cars at the low end will be denied a chance to start the 500, but they'd better not lag behind after the green flag. So I would not be surprised if Silvestro and Alesi qualify and then park their cars pretty quickly if they can't find some serious speed.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Oh and did anyone see how slow the Lotus is at Indy? ~205 is the fastest lap and that is by Alesi! Compare that to the ~220 being run by the Honda and Chevy cars. This could be dangerous for the Lotus cars if they don't get their act together.

FWIW, Indystar.com is reporting that Alesi passed his rookie orientation, with a top speed of 211.5, so it is getting better. (as a side note, everyone is noting that he's piloting the car as it's being towed back to the garages, instead of a team member- the team is reporting that Jean is the only one on the team that fits.... )

He's the only Lotus driver out yesterday, and still at the bottom of the cart by a considerable amount.

On a more positive note- the drivers played around with drafting yesterday, and apparently did a mock start. Worked well, but drivers were worried about getting a false sense of security.

As an opinion- I was ok with the look of the car on a road/street course, I'm not so sure about how it looks with the low rear wing making the rear fenders REALLY obvious.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

oh man, some in the F1 paddock are saying Adrian Newey's genius is not valid this year...so what? you're starting from the same position for a change. eat it Red Bull!
and Hoerner w/some asinie comments about Maldonado...sour grapes really.

INDY!!!

Hinchcliffe is going win a race this year, possibly more and I hope sooner than later.

the new kids Clauson and Newgarden appear to have what it takes and add Hildebrand to the mix and suddenly the series has 3 great american drivers not named Rahal or Andretti, that's great news for the "we want more americans" crowd

Rubens w/a nice showing today @10th!

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Well, Indy qualifying was an eye opener. Wow, Chevy really took Honda out to the woodshed. So much for Honda's approved change on their turbo housing size and their single turbo being better on ovals, at least this oval. I was expecting just the opposite. And also the Penske boys really kept their hand close to their vest in the practices, never really indicating this kind of speed, and even were saying we'll just be happy to make the top 9. It was awesome seeing Penske snatch victory (the pole anyway) from Andretti yet again, yeehaw! (can you see I hate the name Andretti as much as Minnesota?) Now being a Penske fan, I really don't want Helio to win the race, he'd tie my Hero Rick Mears for 4 wins and set the stage to pass him, which would be a sad day.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Well, Indy qualifying was an eye opener. Wow, Chevy really took Honda out to the woodshed. So much for Honda's approved change on their turbo housing size and their single turbo being better on ovals, at least this oval. I was expecting just the opposite. And also the Penske boys really kept their hand close to their vest in the practices, never really indicating this kind of speed, and even were saying we'll just be happy to make the top 9. It was awesome seeing Penske snatch victory (the pole anyway) from Andretti yet again, yeehaw! (can you see I hate the name Andretti as much as Minnesota?) Now being a Penske fan, I really don't want Helio to win the race, he'd tie my Hero Rick Mears for 4 wins and set the stage to pass him, which would be a sad day.

i think you are safe with Mears. Helio is getting back on is game, for sure, but the pointy side of the field is getting pretty darned competetive, AND when you add in the luck factor as we saw last year (which I do give BOTH to #1 and 2, although they should have been reversed with some better luck)- it's almost anyone's game back to about 10.

As for Chevy vs Honda- Illmore has shown their gifts of engine design before, and I kind of think that Honda may have lost its competitive edge without anyone to run against- if anything, this will last all of one year. For the Lotus engine, one wonders if anyone will fund Judd enough to really develp this into a competivive engine- for sure Judd has shown potential, but I think they will need some bigger backing than what Lotus can give them. Right now, even though I just said that the top 10 is realistically the best chance, I also see that the Penske team does have an additional edge- with what they seemed to have found for fuel economy. Assuming that translates to ovals- we will see.

I missed ALL of qualifying- I was hoping they would show some of it on the ship we were on over the weekend- oh well.

Should be a fun weekend- Monco and Indy! One of these years, I KNOW we are going to Monaco. I've been to Indy for 2 500's and 2 F1 races, so no need to really go back to that. Maybe THE cruise that features a multi day stop in Monaco this weekend.

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Going to my first 500 this weekend!!! Promises to be one of the few positives during my temporary stay in this cow pastu...I mean Indianapolis.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Going to my first 500 this weekend!!! Promises to be one of the few positives during my temporary stay in this cow pastu...I mean Indianapolis.

Where ya sitting? We'll look for you on TV

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Where ya sitting? We'll look for you on TV

I'll be the white guy holding a cheap domestic...oh wait

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

I'll be the white guy holding a cheap domestic...oh wait

Oh, well then, you should be easy to spot! Are you going to be the one wearing Danica gear?

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

We're going camping this weekend, so I'll be dvring Monaco & Indy unless my wife can get some sort of feed on her Nook tablet in a McDonalds or something for the 500. I guess I better clear off some classic Japanese Iron Chefs to make room for 2 HD races.

Mears vs Helio....Helio is so good at this track with the best team, and he's relatively young, he could try at least 10 more times, maybe not all with Penske.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

I've been to Indy for 2 500's and 2 F1 races, so no need to really go back to that. Maybe THE cruise that features a multi day stop in Monaco this weekend.

Sure, rub it in....I've only to 3 CART races at Elkhart Lake and 2 CART Races at Milwaukee, and only 1 cruise (eating some of the best food of my life), still living the good life here in little old WI.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

2 days til the Indy/Monaco double header.