Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

I don't have a big problem with the penalty, I was thinking along the lines of the series not embarassing themselves. Speaking of that, now the Honda teams are crying their single turbo doesn't have enough pick-up, so Honda switched them out for an improved version, but Indy says they have to switch them back, something about not enough data to prove they were disadvantaged to begin with. I think of they are making the hp they are supposed to with the boost they are supposed to use, tough luck.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Schumi fastest in P2. The bigger issue is how can Mercedes keep the speed up in the race since they can't use their neat drs device whenever they please in the race.

Gearhead comment....My wife sent me a link to an article that discussed power is up on sportscars and engine size is down, with a 950 HP street legal Mustang (Shelby 10000 I think it was called) in the article. 950 HP street legal Stang!!!! Do you think a family of 5 can live inside this thing? I'm willing to try. :O

With that live axle it's amazing to me that anyone can make it go straight and use any of the power. I did test drive a new Boss about a month ago. Very fun car to drive, but somewhat loud. They want kind of a lot of money for it too.

 

[Jimjamesak]

With that live axle it's amazing to me that anyone can make it go straight and use any of the power. I did test drive a new Boss about a month ago. Very fun car to drive, but somewhat loud. They want kind of a lot of money for it too.

And I'm sure there will a feature on Top Gear with it and Jeremy Clarkson telling us how terrible it is because it's American...

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

hey guys,

I thought I'd start here 1st. I have 4 INDY 500 tickets to sell (it turns out one of my favorite bands in the world, die kreuzen, have a reunion show on may 26 in milwaukee that means I wont' make INDY)...

box 41, row t, seats 5-8

let me know if anyone has interest in em,

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Two races and no comments? Wow.

China saw a new race winner, Finn Keke, I mean German Nico Rosberg. For him, it was a pretty boring race once it got started- he drove away from the field, and the only driver that seriously kept close enough was taken out by his team- when Schumacher lost a front wheel after a change. Button may have been close, but I don't think the McLaren had the pace today. Not all that exciting for the front.

But for 2nd? Holy cow.

For a long time, the group of 2-9 were lead as a pack by Kimi, and his car just went off quickly, as one trip on the marbles shuffled him from 2nd to 12th in 2 laps. In that time, Button got around him and Vettel, and finishing 2nd. Hamilton had a fun time working through the group as well, passing Vettel as well, and finishing a good 3rd. But Vettel shows some serious struggle, and was passed late by his teammate, Weber for 4th. Nice pass, and darned agressive. With Weber leading in points, no team orders were going to prevent that.

Good showing by Sauber, but i expected better from them, since they qualified well, better showing by Williams, who really clawed their way up. Ferrari... well, you can draw your own conclusions.

The Indy car race was interesting- I didn't watch it closely, as it was aired the same time the F1 replay was going on... Saw some reactions to incidents (and maybe Dario needs to tone down his ego a little....). But in the end, Power took the win for Penske. While it was shocking to see a Chevy motor work it's way up that much to take the win, IMHO, it was a LOT more shocking to see Power not have to be too conservative with fuel, when you saw others either pit late, or be forced to be so conservative that you basically threw away a good finish. What that tells me is that Chevy is very much leading this engine race. By a pretty strong margin.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Both races were very compelling. F1....The race for 2nd-10th was fantastic with the Sauber and RB teamates really going at it, especially the Sauber guys. If Alonso hadn't messed up right before the mega mix with Kimi falling back, he might have made the top 6. As a Schumi fan, what a gut wrenching screw up by the pit crew. I would have loved to see how Nico was going to be able to handle Schimi throughout the race.

Indy....once the first round of tyre changes occured, the race got very interesting. Lots of good passing and mixing it up. It was criminal what Dario did to Newgarten (sp). He was so far ahead in the corner that Dario needed to give room to complete the pass. To me, if car A's front tyre hits the rear tyre of car B and takes car B out, how can car A not be held accountable for taking out car B? Dario is now a full blown terd. What Power did with his fuel was mind blowing. Pagenaud is one heck of a driver. I certainly didn't think a Chevy would win the race.

The long term Indycar issue is what will Indycar allow Honda to do with the turbo......

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

And I'm sure there will a feature on Top Gear with it and Jeremy Clarkson telling us how terrible it is because it's American...

Already was. Ha! The GT 350 comes with irs but it's somewhat pricey. I mean a stock Boss is north of 40k already, and you'd have to add another 20k for the mods. for that money I can buy a used V 12 exotic.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

So the F1 circus is in Bahrain. I really hope all of them have a safe time there. I did read that a Force India car got caught up in a clash between the Gov't and protestors.

For Indycar: An interesting read from Marchall Pruett about the Lotus engine supply, or maybe lack there of, and their general problems. It's worth the read: Lotus Problems

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

So the F1 circus is in Bahrain. I really hope all of them have a safe time there. I did read that a Force India car got caught up in a clash between the Gov't and protestors.

For Indycar: An interesting read from Marchall Pruett about the Lotus engine supply, or maybe lack there of, and their general problems. It's worth the read: Lotus Problems

So will there be much of a crowd in Bahrain or will this be just a few really rich guys?

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

For Indycar: An interesting read from Marchall Pruett about the Lotus engine supply, or maybe lack there of, and their general problems. It's worth the read: Lotus Problems

I was kind of neutral on the whole "Lotus" thing (I use quotes, as the word Louts is just that- a word.). Then this article- and up until late in the first page, I was still kind of neutral- teams took a HUGE chance in accepting Judd as the engine supplier, so they kind of get what they get. Then the rep throws the teams under the bus, by pointing out that they would not be at the pointy end of the grid anyway. That threw me totally in the teams' corner. It's as if they picked the weakest teams to put their motor into, as opposed to trying to be at the front- and now that the teams are not happy- the answer is "what did you expect? We thought you would not be fast, anyway..."

Terrible.

I still don't understand why Lotus would take this on. They are already stretched WAAAAY to think with the F1 program(s), what benefit do they get by making this engine for a country that they are not really selling any cars in for the next many years- if ever anymore. It's almost as if they stated marketing cars that could be here before even getting the cars solidly on the ground. For sure, they don't have the $$ to give to Judd for a realistic engine program. At least Honda and GM could help their suppliers (IF they are contracting it out) with prototype manufacturing facilities. Lotus can't do that at all.

Too bad for the "Lotus" teams. Some had been showing some incredible potential over the past few years. Now they have the potential to go out of business if the engine situation does not improve.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

So will there be much of a crowd in Bahrain or will this be just a few really rich guys?

I think that is basically all that can ever afford to go to a F1 race in Bahrain.

Will Buxton just tweeted that:

Track to hotel in 25 mins. Huge police presence on motorway. About 10 checkpoints. Former pearl roundabout now guarded with heavy artillery.

Yeah, that sure sounds like a great time!

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Apparently, things are starting to get ugly in Bahrain.

Here's the headline story from Autosport- http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98997

Apparently, Force India skipped Practice 2, and there are some reports that have them not racing and leaving. They were attacked with a Molotov Coctail...

Bernie is pretty adamant about racing this weekend, as is the crown prince, but politicians and locals don't want the race to happen.

The fact that Rosberg is fast, but still has tire wear problems seems almost secondary at this point.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

ugh. Vettel. I just can't stand that primadonna.

but in good news, what a great showing for Lotus! would be nice if the Lotus-in-name-only crew in Indy would be able to compete as well.

another weekend where Bruno out qualifies his teammate, but he failed to finish. anyone have thoughts on Senna's season thusfar?

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

ugh. Vettel. I just can't stand that primadonna.

but in good news, what a great showing for Lotus! would be nice if the Lotus-in-name-only crew in Indy would be able to compete as well.

another weekend where Bruno out qualifies his teammate, but he failed to finish. anyone have thoughts on Senna's season thusfar?

With the financial collapse of Lotus, I'm not calling them that anymore- and roll my eyes everytime they mention how historic it is for them to win. It isn't- this is NOT Lotus, it's Renault, who had backing from a guy claiming to be Lotus, and who has gone under- so the Lotus name on the side of the car is only there due to the rules saying that htey can't change the name in the middle of the season. But good for Renault, for sure- the car was super fast on that track.

Bad day for McLaren- that's for sure. Bad pits cost Hamilton at least a 4th, I think. And an exhaust failure cost Button anything.

4 races, 4 different winning teams, and lots of different drivers on the podium. Heck of a season. Maybe we will see DiResta on the podium this year, too.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

You know I can never remember a team who supplies engines to anyone else, regardless of the series, and having it work out well. Didn't Toleman use someone else's engines back in the 80's, and you're right what's the point of taking it on in the first place. Maybe they ought to go back to Oldsmobile.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

You know I can never remember a team who supplies engines to anyone else, regardless of the series, and having it work out well. Didn't Toleman use someone else's engines back in the 80's, and you're right what's the point of taking it on in the first place. Maybe they ought to go back to Oldsmobile.

If it were Cosworth, the company that actually makes their own engines, providing the powertrain, ok. Or if a company that actually moves products, and makes money, say even a small company like Aston Martin, it would make some sense. But Lotus, in particular, is struggling for money, and some kind of identity- since one needs a scorecard to figure out what is going on in F1, where in 2011 we had Renault/Lotus and Lotus/Renault at either end of the grid. So they keep taking on F1, go bankrupt, AND try to make an entirely new engine for Indy Car. All I can say is that they must like spending time in court rooms, figuring out who gets paid and not.

Ford, Toyota, Kia, Subaru, Puegot, VW- all of them have real resourses that 1) can pay for a Judd engine, and 2) have manufacturing abilities to even HELP make a Judd engine, and none of them are tied up in a major program like F1 or Indy. The last new Lotus engine was a V8 20 years ago....

Oh, and with the break of Barhar from the Lotus situation, I really think that's what has given Renault less distraction, and the ability to work on the car, and not try to pretend that some magical part of Proton can actually support an F1 team.

 

[Runsub5]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

ugh. Vettel. I just can't stand that primadonna.

but in good news, what a great showing for Lotus!........

I agree. Also, the first four finishers all had Renault engines. Great season shaping up and more time for development in the next three weeks before the Spanish GP. This is shaping up to be the most competitive season amongst constructors and drivers in quite some time.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

I agree. Also, the first four finishers all had Renault engines. Great season shaping up and more time for development in the next three weeks before the Spanish GP. This is shaping up to be the most competitive season amongst constructors and drivers in quite some time.

I think Mercedes and Ferrari have fatal flaws and will fall back. I'm not sure what to make of Renault/Lotus yet. I think in the end it will come down to Vettel winning it all again because Button and Hamilton will split points too often.

Indy....So 2 Lotus teams have agreed to be released by Lotus or have essentially fired Lotus, but will they get any engines from Chevy or Honda? Turbo controversy....Borg Warner makes all the turbos and is basically responsible for ensuring they are performing equally, I really don't know what Penske is so upset about, unless the turbo change on the Honda is making up for engine performance issue. Theoretically, if Honda was making a weak powered engine, upping the turbo's output could make up for that. Can the turbo output be measured separately from the engine's exhaust output somehow or are they directly related?

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

It's trivial to measure how much boost you're getting from the turbo on the intake side. Fool around with the wastegate on a dyno, and you can figure out how power output correlates to boost. (This is tuning that is within the ability of amateurs to do.)

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2012: The year of the ugly cars!

Honda gets to keep the updated housing, conjecture says it will add 10-15 hp. I still have not been able to figure out if Honda or Brg Warner is at fault for the performance diff between them and Chevy. If Honda dominates qualifying, there's gonna be hell to pay from the bowtie teams.