Ok Penn State....but who is next???

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

They're moving to the NCAA, Division II. They'll be a full member in the 2013-2014 school year.

In addition they will play NCAA DI for women's ice hockey in the existing 1,000-seat facility they already have.

...I guess I am more towards baby steps. Let us do a Frozen Four in Cincinnati first.

They did already in 1996.

http://insidecollegehockey.com/6History/ncaa_96.htm

Navy would make sense. Even though Atlantic hockey is at 12 members there is no way they would not get in. Army and Air Force would leave the conference if they couldn't be in it with Navy. URI is another possibility. I would really like to see another school south of the Mason Dixon line add hockey. It would be really nice to have a FL school add one since FL is basically full of people from the northern states there would be a fan base there already when teams come and visit. IE look at when the Red Sox or Yanks play in Tampa.

I agree Navy being a fed school, doesn't give scholarships so it's a matter of Title IX (adding a women's sport) and hiring coaches and support staff. Note: Navy did sponsor the last frozen four I'm guessing it's a matter of time since they built the new ice arena a few years ago. Best chance for schools South is the Carolinas Liberty (in Virginia) is prob the top candidate for hockey in the South. One reason big reason I've heard they haven't is large travel to existing NCAA DI schools compared to other ACHA DI schools (hint they play Penn State and Navy) so Penn State may be the domino that sparks other schools

 

[COHockey]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

They did already in 1996.

Somebody missed my sarcasm.

 

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Somebody missed my sarcasm.

darn I usually pick up on it. It wouldnt be a suprise they get at least a regional in the next 5 years.

I'm gonna give a timeline of the dominos i mentioned in my last post:

Penn State 2012-13 (USCHO article said 2011?)
Navy 2013
Rhode Island 2013
Liberty 2013 or 2014
Syracuse 2013 or 2014
Grand Valley 2014 or 2015
Moorhead 2014 or 2015
Lindenwood 2015 or 2016

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

darn I usually pick up on it. It wouldnt be a suprise they get at least a regional in the next 5 years.

I'm gonna give a timeline of the dominos i mentioned in my last post:

Penn State 2012-13 (USCHO article said 2011?)
Navy 2013
Rhode Island 2013
Liberty 2013 or 2014
Syracuse 2013 or 2014
Grand Valley 2014 or 2015
Moorhead 2014 or 2015
Lindenwood 2015 or 2016

Good luck with that.

There might be three or four of those that I think would actually happen, but not necessarily in that timeframe.

 

[NMU8405]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

They're moving to the NCAA, Division II. They'll be a full member in the 2013-2014 school year.

I believe you are allowed to play up D-1 in one sport, as a "Showcase Sport." Im not sure if that rule was suspended, or will expire.

My top 10 (or so)most likely to make the jump to D1 hockey are -
Minnesota State University - Moorhead (a virtual gaurantee)
Illinois/Northwestern/Indiana or all - IF BIG TEN HOCKEY becomes a reality
Navy
USC
Washington
Stanford
Missouri
Texas
UCLA
University of Wisconsin - Superior

The Pac 8 currently has a hockey league, with USC winning the title last season, Oregon refused to give up the trophy. It got some coverage on NBC sports. Also, the SEC opened a hockey league a few seasons ago, and its going pretty well from what Ive been reading. Im sure once the Big Ten joins in the SEC wont be far behind.

 

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Good luck with that.

There might be three or four of those that I think would actually happen, but not necessarily in that timeframe.

It really depends if they wait around or not, as for the DII schools on the list the earliest they can get started is after next summer, so it'll take at least 3-4 years for schools like Grand Valley Moorhead and Lindenwood. the 2013s like Liberty, Navy, and URI is because they already have buildings so they could pretty much anytime, Syracuse is tricky- they could wait til an arena is built or start sooner if they played in the War Memorial until an on-campus arena is built. And I have no clue why the one USCHO article said 2011 for Penn State, I thought the original earliest was 2013 before reading that.

I believe you are allowed to play up D-1 in one sport, as a "Showcase Sport." Im not sure if that rule was suspended, or will expire.

Right now its one sport for men and one for women. But the NCAA is in the process of basically rewording the rule (earliest for that is summer 2011) to read that a school can play up if the sport is not offered at the schools main athletic level. DII schools like Moorhead, Grand Valley Lindenwood and a few others could then play up in hockey, like the DII schools already playing before the current rule was put in place.

Here it is:

The practice of allowing schools to sponsor a single sport in a different division would be eliminated, except in sports where no championship is conducted in its division. Divisions II and III schools currently taking advantage of this opportunity would not affected unless they fail to conduct the sport in Division I for any ensuing year.

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Yup, and we always said the same about Penn State. I'm reevaluating the whole thing!

I am pretty sure there's also no chance of Penn State joining Hockey East.

 

[aparch]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

The Pac 8 currently has a hockey league, with USC winning the title last season, Oregon refused to give up the trophy. It got some coverage on NBC sports. Also, the SEC opened a hockey league a few seasons ago, and its going pretty well from what Ive been reading. Im sure once the Big Ten joins in the SEC wont be far behind.

ACHA != NCAA

Indiana, Illinois, and Penn State are the only Big Ten schools to play at the ACHA Division I level.
Northwestern, and Iowa play at the ACHA Division II level.
Purdue and Nebraska competes at the Division III level.


While I know that an NCAA program isn't built from the club level, the interest that these schools show for club hockey is representative of their chances of forming Division 1 programs. I think there is a better chance of Eastern Michigan returning than there is drawing the remaining Big10 teams to the NCAA Division 1 hockey. (As of right now. Maybe things change once Penn State is an official member)

 

[MikeAnderson]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

I believe you are allowed to play up D-1 in one sport, as a "Showcase Sport." Im not sure if that rule was suspended, or will expire.

It will expire. The best thing for men's ice hockey to fight for at this point is to reclassify its championship as "National Collegiate" so that the DII schools will no longer have to classify ice hockey as a "play-up" sport, making that an easy issue to resolve for the sake of growing the sport.

Also, the SEC opened a hockey league a few seasons ago, and its going pretty well from what Ive been reading.

Not so much. Facilities are a BIG issue. Alabama currently plays its "home" games 45 minutes away in suburban Birmingham, as there is no suitable ice in Tuscaloosa. I know that Auburn used to practice on non-regulation ice in a mall in Montgomery. UT, Vandy, UK, Arkansas, SC, UGA, UF, LSU are all fairly easy to answer if they can share off-campus facilities. I'm not sure there's any ice in Mississippi outside of Jackson or Biloxi, which are both a long way from Oxford or Starkville.

Then you have to convince the athletics departments of each school to say something besides "LOL hockey."

 

[joecct]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

It will expire. The best thing for men's ice hockey to fight for at this point is to reclassify its championship as "National Collegiate" so that the DII schools will no longer have to classify ice hockey as a "play-up" sport, making that an easy issue to resolve for the sake of growing the sport.





Not so much. Facilities are a BIG issue. Alabama currently plays its "home" games 45 minutes away in suburban Birmingham, as there is no suitable ice in Tuscaloosa. I know that Auburn used to practice on non-regulation ice in a mall in Montgomery. UT, Vandy, UK, Arkansas, SC, UGA, UF, LSU are all fairly easy to answer if they can share off-campus facilities. I'm not sure there's any ice in Mississippi outside of Jackson or Biloxi, which are both a long way from Oxford or Starkville.

Then you have to convince the athletics departments of each school to say something besides "LOL hockey."

Around the DC Metro area (and that includes, somehow, Blacksburg, VA), I can see the following schools go for it:

Liberty -- they recruit most of the ACHA 1 team from Canada. Just change who you are recruiting, though heathens may have a bit of trouble getting in. The football team is rumored to be looking @ 1-A rather than 1-AA. That move may take precedence over the hockey team jumping. One thing - that school never goes for half measures. If Jerry Jr. wants it, it will happen and they'll do it right.

Navy -- long rumored (maybe just as long as Penn State). They need more stands and a concession stand at McMullen, but they could do it. Road access to the facility is lousy and may be a headache when Army / Air Force visits.

Maryland -- has the building (Cole) that needs some renovation for ice hockey. Rumor has it that the faculty senate has said the ice hockey will be the next club sport to go varsity. Needs money. Needs fans. Very few sports get full funding (just the marquee ones).

 

[davyd83]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

It will expire. The best thing for men's ice hockey to fight for at this point is to reclassify its championship as "National Collegiate" so that the DII schools will no longer have to classify ice hockey as a "play-up" sport, making that an easy issue to resolve for the sake of growing the sport.





Not so much. Facilities are a BIG issue. Alabama currently plays its "home" games 45 minutes away in suburban Birmingham, as there is no suitable ice in Tuscaloosa. I know that Auburn used to practice on non-regulation ice in a mall in Montgomery. UT, Vandy, UK, Arkansas, SC, UGA, UF, LSU are all fairly easy to answer if they can share off-campus facilities. I'm not sure there's any ice in Mississippi outside of Jackson or Biloxi, which are both a long way from Oxford or Starkville.

Then you have to convince the athletics departments of each school to say something besides "LOL hockey."

Auburn plays in neighboring Columbus, GA. They have a good facillty there. There isn't a suitable facility in Tuscaloosa for 'Bama, but Birmingham is a great hockey town. I've been in the arena with many crowds of 8000+ there. There are suitable facilities in the market at Tennessee, Vandy, South Carolina, LSU and Kentucky. For the Mississippi schools, Tupelo has a good facility 50 miles from Ole Miss and 65 miles from Mississippi State. Jackson is much further and no longer has ice, plus there are numerous scheduling conflict which drove the ECHL Bandits out. There isn't a place for Arkansas to play, nor Florida. Georgia would have to go an hour to Gwinnett County.

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Around the DC Metro area (and that includes, somehow, Blacksburg, VA), I can see the following schools go for it:

Liberty -- they recruit most of the ACHA 1 team from Canada. Just change who you are recruiting, though heathens may have a bit of trouble getting in. The football team is rumored to be looking @ 1-A rather than 1-AA. That move may take precedence over the hockey team jumping. One thing - that school never goes for half measures. If Jerry Jr. wants it, it will happen and they'll do it right.

Navy -- long rumored (maybe just as long as Penn State). They need more stands and a concession stand at McMullen, but they could do it. Road access to the facility is lousy and may be a headache when Army / Air Force visits.

Maryland -- has the building (Cole) that needs some renovation for ice hockey. Rumor has it that the faculty senate has said the ice hockey will be the next club sport to go varsity. Needs money. Needs fans. Very few sports get full funding (just the marquee ones).

I've said this before and I'll say it again Army and Air Force can help Navy with some of arena renovation costs. Simply play an outdoor game at Army or Air Force and use net proceeds to cover Navys start up costs. Cadets/military/casual fans would definitely be interested in an outdoor game between the academies.

Penn could/should start up for following reasons:
They have an on campus arena
They will have geographic rival in Princeton
Don't have to worry about Title IX since they are an ivy league

Columbia will never unless they get an insanely huge donation for hockey since real estate in Manhattan is very expensive.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Don't have to worry about Title IX since they are an ivy league

Ok - I've just got to ask. What piece of reasoning led you to this false conclusion?

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Ok - I've just got to ask. What piece of reasoning led you to this false conclusion?

Ivy leagues don't give out Athletic scholarships. That is the big part of Title IX that can make new sports tough.

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Ok - I've just got to ask. What piece of reasoning led you to this false conclusion?

For Penn to have a men's hockey team, the marginal cost of also adding a women's team to comply with Title IX is minimized because they do not have to pay for an additional 18 scholarships on top of the 18 they need for men's hockey. Since, of course, they don't offer any.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Ivy leagues don't give out Athletic scholarships. That is the big part of Title IX that can make new sports tough.

Err.. no. Title IX is also about participation opportunities, funding, and facilities. The ratio of those per gender should approximate the ratio of M:F in the student body. Ask anyone in DIII about issues related to adding sports in an environment where there are no athletic scholarships.

 

[pinch]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Ivy leagues don't give out Athletic scholarships. That is the big part of Title IX that can make new sports tough.

I was under the impression that the girls at Brown were the starting point for Title IX

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Err.. no. Title IX is also about participation opportunities, funding, and facilities. The ratio of those per gender should approximate the ratio of M:F in the student body. Ask anyone in DIII about issues related to adding sports in an environment where there are no athletic scholarships.

Exactly. If an Ivy were already out of balance and chose to add a men's team (or cut a women's), they would immediately be sued based on the ratio test. Trust me - I was on the Cornell fencing team when they cut both the men's and women's teams. The women immediately went to a lawyer, and the university caved like a Chilean gold mine (too soon?) - but ONLY the women's team was reinstated.

So it is absolutely false to say that Title IX doesn't apply.

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Exactly. If an Ivy were already out of balance and chose to add a men's team (or cut a women's), they would immediately be sued based on the ratio test. Trust me - I was on the Cornell fencing team when they cut both the men's and women's teams. The women immediately went to a lawyer, and the university caved like a Chilean gold mine (too soon?) - but ONLY the women's team was reinstated.

So it is absolutely false to say that Title IX doesn't apply.

Still it is alot cheaper than at a school that will have 18 scholarships aka 36 to be in Title IX compliance. Since Penn already has a rink they maintain their main costs would be recruiting, coaches/support staff salaries, equipment, and travel for 2 hockey teams. Travel costs wouldn't be to bad since the ECAC would let them in and they wouldn't be to far away from any member schools and they could schedule OOC games with Atlantic Hockey teams and Penn St. Breaking even shouldn't be to difficult as long as they develop somewhat of a following among student and alumni.

 

[CornwallAce]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Any talk of either South Dakota school?

I was looking at the Great West conference that USD is in, and I think they might need to rename the conference.

New Jersey Institute of Technology
Delaware State University - Soccer
Howard University - Soccer
New York Institute of Technology - Baseball
South Carolina State University - Soccer