Ok Penn State....but who is next???

[moose97]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Biggest problem (money not-with-standing) is the moratorim on playing-up. MSU Moorhead can put it on the front burner, say they plan to go ahead, etc., but if the NCAA doesn't get rid of it, it's moot. When (and if) the legislation removing the moratorium passes, then we'll see how quickly it becomes a front burner issue.

 

[ChiefWahoo]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Biggest problem (money not-with-standing) is the moratorim on playing-up. MSU Moorhead can put it on the front burner, say they plan to go ahead, etc., but if the NCAA doesn't get rid of it, it's moot. When (and if) the legislation removing the moratorium passes, then we'll see how quickly it becomes a front burner issue.

Couldn't they technically apply for an exemption to the moratorium.

 

[blockski]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Couldn't they technically apply for an exemption to the moratorium.

Why would the NCAA exempt them?

 

[joecct]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Biggest problem (money not-with-standing) is the moratorim on playing-up. MSU Moorhead can put it on the front burner, say they plan to go ahead, etc., but if the NCAA doesn't get rid of it, it's moot. When (and if) the legislation removing the moratorium passes, then we'll see how quickly it becomes a front burner issue.

If MSU-Moorhead is D-II they can play up under the proposed legislation as there does not exist a D-II championship. If MSU-Moorhead is D-III, they stay @ D-III because D-III has a championship.

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

I think the best thing that could happen right now is if Navy and/or URI want to add a team that Atlantic hockey splits into two conferences. One conference would be primarily the New England schools. The other would be the NY and west schools. The west schools could add UAH and Navy. The east schools would have URI. This would lead to two new conferences and each more importantly it would be easier for the schools in them to get that NCAA auto bid. It would leave plenty of room open for growth if say Syracuse wants to ease on into hokey or Liberty wants to add a team.

 

[moose97]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Couldn't they technically apply for an exemption to the moratorium.

Why would the NCAA exempt them?

This. Especially when they are close to changing the rule:

If MSU-Moorhead is D-II they can play up under the proposed legislation as there does not exist a D-II championship. If MSU-Moorhead is D-III, they stay @ D-III because D-III has a championship.

The Dragons are D-II. And that's my point. It is proposed legislation right now. Sure, it will likely pass, but why stick your neck out and announce that "when and if the proposed legislation passes, MSUM is going D-I in hockey," when they can wait, save a few bucks in the interem, and make that announcement after the legislation officially passes...

 

[komey1]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

What scares me more is if Syracuse goes D1. I could see that being the start of the new Empire State Hockey League. That would pull schools from the ECAC and AHA leaving the Ivies on their own.

The Ivies are stable though and have enough for their own conference. I do think a Syracuse wanting to add a DI men's team would have serious challenges and realignment in the ECAC and AHA. An ESC (Empire State Conference) of SU, Colgate, Clarkson, SLU, Union, RPI, NU, Army, and Canisius would be interesting unless SU decided to pump serious money into the program and they could dominate.

BTW, does Penn St have a 2 year ban on NCAA play since they are a new program?

 

[moose97]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

The Ivies are stable though and have enough for their own conference. I do think a Syracuse wanting to add a DI men's team would have serious challenges and realignment in the ECAC and AHA. An ESC (Empire State Conference) of SU, Colgate, Clarkson, SLU, Union, RPI, NU, Army, and Canisius would be interesting unless SU decided to pump serious money into the program and they could dominate.

What, got something against Niagara? Or do you just prefer a 9 team conference?

BTW, does Penn St have a 2 year ban on NCAA play since they are a new program?

Nope, that's just for teams moving up divisions. RMU was the last D-I team to start hockey, and they had no "transition" period.

 

[joecct]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

The Ivies are stable though and have enough for their own conference. I do think a Syracuse wanting to add a DI men's team would have serious challenges and realignment in the ECAC and AHA. An ESC (Empire State Conference) of SU, Colgate, Clarkson, SLU, Union, RPI, NU, Army, and Canisius would be interesting unless SU decided to pump serious money into the program and they could dominate.

BTW, does Penn St have a 2 year ban on NCAA play since they are a new program?

Don't know about Army. I think they'll want to stay in the same league as Air Force and (hopefully, eventually) Navy.

The Empire League is an interesting concept. But, you know, there are only 16 bids. If we get a whole bunch of 6/8 team conferences, we're not going to have a heck of a large # of at large bids. The Big Boys will not like that.

 

[RITProf]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

If we get a whole bunch of 6/8 team conferences, we're not going to have a heck of a large # of at large bids. The Big Boys will not like that.

Which is exactly why that's how college hockey should move forward with the BTHC and a whole bunch of 8-team conferences. Lots of auto-bids, lots of OOC games ... that's how the small schools survive and thrive in the new landscape (and how there would be room for future teams).

And Komey ... I do see Niagara in your list, but did you leave out RIT on purpose???? I would think RIT would love to be in a conference with all the current NYS non-Ivy ECAC teams, plus NU, et al.

 

[moose97]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

The Empire League is an interesting concept. But, you know, there are only 16 bids. If we get a whole bunch of 6/8 team conferences, we're not going to have a heck of a large # of at large bids. The Big Boys will not like that.

Which is exactly why that's how college hockey should move forward with the BTHC and a whole bunch of 8-team conferences. Lots of auto-bids, lots of OOC games ... that's how the small schools survive and thrive in the new landscape (and how there would be room for future teams).

Exactly. What's would be wrong with, say, 8-9 6-team conferences and then have only between 20 and 24 conference games? That leaves a ton of OOC opportunities, and by March, everyone would know exactly who deserves to be in the tourney and who should stay home.

Ideally, let's call it 8 8 team conferences (with maybe five of them having an open spot, or a few having a couple open spots). That leaves room for expansion, and still allows for 8 at-large bids. More than enough for a truly deserving team...

And Komey ... I do see Niagara in your list, but did you leave out RIT on purpose???? I would think RIT would love to be in a conference with all the current NYS non-Ivy ECAC teams, plus NU, et al.

I knew there was one missing. I somehow skipped over the NU, and forgot about RIT .

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

bump

 

[komey1]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Can't believe I missed RIT in my Empire State Conference.

 

[davyd83]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Hey all,


Obviously it's destined for the CCHA to lose Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State with the WCHA losing Wisconsin and Notre Dame. CHN had a great article about the potential for some schools to branch off and build their own conference. What are the possibilities?

The WCHA would be far more likely to lose Minnesota than Notre Dame, since Minnesota is in the WCHA and Notre Dame is not. Now the CCHA could lose Notre Dame, but I don't think that is likely to happen unless Notre Dame drops its Big East affiliation in all of its other sports and joins the Big Ten.

 

[Hopkinja]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

The Ivies are stable though and have enough for their own conference. I do think a Syracuse wanting to add a DI men's team would have serious challenges and realignment in the ECAC and AHA. An ESC (Empire State Conference) of SU, Colgate, Clarkson, SLU, Union, RPI, NU, Army, and Canisius would be interesting unless SU decided to pump serious money into the program and they could dominate.

BTW, does Penn St have a 2 year ban on NCAA play since they are a new program?

My concern is when big money starts flying around, the Ivy league becomes a second tier league. See football and basketball, and to a lesser extent baseball and soccer.

The Ivies only compete in the sports they do because there aren't enough big money teams to siphon away the talent. See lacrosse.

 

[Patman]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

My concern is when big money starts flying around, the Ivy league becomes a second tier league. See football and basketball, and to a lesser extent baseball and soccer.

The Ivies only compete in the sports they do because there aren't enough big money teams to siphon away the talent. See lacrosse.

See, this is why I'm not against growing college hockey... I'm against it growing out for the large body of us. I'd love to see 100 programs... but I don't want them all to be King Kong. Its an eclectic mix and I want to see that built upon.

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

My concern is when big money starts flying around, the Ivy league becomes a second tier league. See football and basketball, and to a lesser extent baseball and soccer.

The Ivies only compete in the sports they do because there aren't enough big money teams to siphon away the talent. See lacrosse.

The Ivies compete in hockey and lacrosse because the economic/social backgrounds of the recruits will favor an ivy league education. This is not true for everyone but the average college hockey/lacrosse player is more likely to come from an economically better background than a football/basketball player. They are more likely to have parents with a college education who might push their children to go to Brown without a full ride instead of the full ride at New Mexico.(Not to take anything away from New Mexico just wanted to provide an example)

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

The Ivies are stable though and have enough for their own conference. I do think a Syracuse wanting to add a DI men's team would have serious challenges and realignment in the ECAC and AHA. An ESC (Empire State Conference) of SU, Colgate, Clarkson, SLU, Union, RPI, NU, Army, and Canisius would be interesting unless SU decided to pump serious money into the program and they could dominate.

BTW, does Penn St have a 2 year ban on NCAA play since they are a new program?

Where would Q-Pac go?

Also, I don't know if Empire League would work. Remember, ECAC does travel partners. I'm sure both "new leagues" would like to keep this as such.

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

Where would Q-Pac go?

T'ain't really the concern of the hypothetical ESC, or the five ECAC members who would be joining said hypothetical conference, but probably back to Atlantic Hockey. Or maybe Hockey East might take a flier on them...can't be any worse than Merrimack, at least.

Also, I don't know if Empire League would work. Remember, ECAC does travel partners. I'm sure both "new leagues" would like to keep this as such.

Niagara-Canisius. Syracuse-RIT. Clarkson-SLU. RPI-Union. Colgate-Army.

About as perfect as you can get 'em, honestly.

 

[gordwiser]

Re: Ok Penn State....but who is next???

What about revisiting the idea of Canadian colleges being able to play in the NCAA? This would expand the sport west... and could spur a couple western schools to add programs if they had a conference to play in with western Canadian schools. Right now Canada is all about their juniors, but I bet the quality of players going to college would improve in Canada if they had better quality opponents and US recognition.